The Torah.

AskTheFamily

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If you have time to give some examples, I'm curious. I haven't seen much value in the Torah other than as a sleep aid. ;)

I did briefly believe that I found a model for a human (body, soul, will, etc.) in the Garden of Eden story. At that time I was mildly psychotic, and lots of things seemed significant, so I think that was the explanation for believing this.

God willingly when I have time, Really busy I am in a 3rd year computer science degree.

I ask you guys to wait patiently, I want to present things very well and as short and eloquently and reasonably possible, so I don't lose people's attention.
 
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Noxot

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What is death?

that's a big question. it's certainly not the most terrible of things. what is more frightening is that so many would blindly follow after some authority figure and do all kinds of insane things. thankfully we have the advantage of 2,000~ years of maturation and many wise fellows who saw the law in the divine light even if it's earthly garb was in part a product of it's times.

death nourishes life. the dead falling leaves of the tree aid in their own ways which is a symbol of how divine providence keeps spirits free and yet orders them according to his goodness. death is an outer layer of reality. the letter is the tail and the wisdom hidden from the old age being the head.

It beautifully iterates the truth.

it does, when we die and see the light. it could be useful to rebel though, if you have a pure heart and confront God in the spirit of justice and faith.
 
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AskTheFamily

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if you have a pure heart and confront God in the spirit of justice and faith.

I have darkest of hearts, trying to redeem myself, through enlightening and helping better souls to knowledge I was least fit to gain, all in hope if I help God he will continue to help me.
 
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Zoness

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God willingly when I have time, Really busy I am in a 3rd year computer science degree.

I ask you guys to wait patiently, I want to present things very well and as short and eloquently and reasonably possible, so I don't lose people's attention.

I remember the CS studies days, it wasn't that long ago for me (barely five years).

Good luck!
 
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awitch

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I remember the CS studies days, it wasn't that long ago for me (barely five years).

Good luck!

Feels like a lifetime ago for me.
I'd offer to help but I doubt they're teaching you LISP and I don't think I remember my linear algebra.
 
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dlamberth

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His actions were against the law, so justice was executed, as simple as that. Whether or not you feel that its good or evil is limited to your view.
Religious laws...they can be so very cruel sometimes. Especially when executed by the self-righteous.
 
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AskTheFamily

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I wanted to be short, but ended up writing a long piece.


Going into perspectives of the parables of genesis with respect to creation of the spiritual realms and goodness would be an interesting path, but, it's not the truth I am talking about.

Going into a discussion of the fall of Adam could be interesting and discussion of first human vs evolution, would be fun and interesting, but it's not the truth I am talking about.

Because it was not destiny that Adam fall and it was not destiny that we have a slithering enemy, even though latter is an observable manifest enemy, this is not the truth I am talking about.

The truth I am talking about is what is iterated starting with Seth. Seth meant set or appointed by God. It was God who set Seth as a successor to Adam.

Now any guy or religion could say God picks a person and it happens to be the people we follow are God's choice.

That is not proof of anything.

But with a subtle approach, sometimes, God iterates things so subtly, that you know it cannot be a work of a human.

That is because it is so clear, but only when you pay attention, and yet God although clear, doesn't explicitly state the clear message as that would ruin the form of lessons. What shows this to be subtle is the non-subtle nature of what contradicts it in the Torah.

Adam was created in God's Image. Giving ear to the slithering snake, he temporarily suspends belief and begins to believe that he was meant for something higher and greater, to be of the exalted ones.

If we slip, is our path forever that of disgrace. No, for God showed, although not destined to fall, even his chosen images can slip away.

What was the fruit he ate from?

The next talk goes into the story of Cain and Abel, and it's obvious by flow what happened to Adam, is now exponentially growing.

Adam looked towards the tree of life and tree of knowledge with envy, but his envy was that of wishing to be like them or as them, to be of the exalted ones and to reach the station of perpetual remain.

What he didn't realize is that he was going to be upon this path and reach their station rather if he distrusted the snake who posed as a sincere advisor.

This seems like it's talking about some trivial thing, some trivial story. Yet you really begin to know where the Torah is going with this and that no doubt is of divine speech, when, it mentions that Enoch was in the image of God like Adam, and mentions the generations that got corrupted and how humans originally got corrupted, was DUE to taking the name of God for themselves.

Seth meant set by God and he was the successor of Adam. What does all this mean?

We keep reading and we get into the "consultation" (Noah) of God.

These names are subtly iterating a theme.

It then goes on to talk about Abraham, and Ishmael and Isaac. God hears and God's laughter or God laughs both in their proper spot.

Then you have Jacob who becomes nicknamed Israel which has to do with being literally the strongest fighter that no one can overcome but God, not even the strongest Angel.

Than you get Joseph who is special like him and relates to Jacob in the way Jacob related to Isaac, which others do not.

What is this getting at? It is telling us something trivial? Something irrelevant?

You see up to this point, whether Abraham or Isaac existed, doesn't really matter. We are to be skeptics coming to holy book looking for to prove itself.

But in the name Seth there is subtle warning and in the talk about people taking the name for themselves that caused all corruption, it is saying, when people rebel against God's images and names, when they take the station of being representatives of what is to be valued most, then all corruption stems.

And this is reality. Forgetting what guidance is for a moment, you know for sure, misguidance all stems from people claiming to represent what is to be valued most. Whether they are Atheists telling us how to approach the issue of what to value most, whether they are Deists, whether they are pagans, whether they are Muslims, Jews, Christians, whoever, it doesn't matter.

Everyone wants a piece of this pie and say in the matter, loved to be followed, and love to speak concerning it.

Everyone acts as if they know what is to be valued most, like they can represent it, and they essentially know what the image of God is....

But what is the real motive of all this if God did chose representatives but jealousy towards God's chosen ones who he has graced?

Cain didn't act out of love and piety, so he begins to take it out on Abel.

Pharaoh was an extreme case of taking the name of God. The story of Israelites, is something unique?

Is Abraham the first chosen one to have offspring?

Let us think about this rationally. Or is God iterating his way through out the ages?

The story of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, in details, cannot be an eternal truth.

However the theme of a chosen family associated together beyond blood, that these exalted people are meant to lead and be looked up others are not, this is an eternal truth.

And the way they would relate to one another in blood as well, has a wisdom, that cannot be denied.

But what is more subtle is Lot. Lot a cousin of Abraham. You don't see this coming until you see it all.

For this to have ANY MEANING, it must have a form to continue continuously.

And that continuing and purposeful speech, reaches a climax when it gets to Aaron.

For Abraham and the kingship in his offspring, was not a kingship acknowledged by anyone but the sincere.

And in that leadership and kingship, was the position of exalted leadership, high position of leadership, not the leadership we are use to talking in this age, where everyone who inspires is considered a leader, but specifically the exalted leadership.

And God to show what he meant by saying those who take God's Name, says no one else but Aaron and his chosen offspring are to take this position among the Israelites. Others related by blood to Aaron and Moses would be like the brothers of Joseph. Joseph is specially chosen to by the covenant while his brothers are not.

That is an everlasting covenant towards them. What is subtle to, is the talk of Enoch being taken upon.

Combined, you get that someone from Aaron's offspring will remain with this everlasting covenant.

Yet in a twist events, all that, from Seth succeeding Adam, all the talk of Abraham's family making way to the chosen offspring of Aaron, all that talk, as if no flow....

The Torah turns 180 and takes this position way from Aaron and his offspring.... and if you have an attention span of a goldfish, you would say it just goes against appointing Aaron and his offspring, and God changing his mind with that.

But if you were reading the flow, and you were paying attention, it was all to make people understand the position of Aaron and his offspring.

That they were special and meant for the exalted leadership and for no one else to claim it.

It iterates truth up to this point. It iterates the eternal truth, because it is not talking about a history or stories or just telling us of Abraham -> Isaac --> Jacob, it's not telling us of Seth and Enoch, it's not telling all this, so that we say cool story, cool heroes, and it's cool they were related.

That is not the purpose. God is exalted above such type of talk.

When God talks he does so to manifest eternal truth. Eternal wisdom.

Up to this point it iterates very well the truth.

What is more interesting is how God even safeguarded up to this point the truth of the one who God will send ALONG with the truth of the position of Aaron.

You see, there is no fault really in Moses' tongue, the fault is on the people and the knot on the tongue is the deafness on their ears.

And Moses DID NOT say ONLY release my tongue with the one you will send, but God got upset, why?

Why did he say you have Aaron? Why? Because he was looking far too much to the future, while God says, you must hope in the near time and you are to prepare people for Aaron and his offspring so that people prepare for the one who I will send.

It makes no sense at all though if Aaron was meant to die before Moses. None what so ever.

Because everything Aaron can say, Moses can say. Prophets can convey the truth perfectly, it's never a fault on them, it's never a knot on their tongue to a fault of theirs.

And the one who God will send, if it meant a Messenger in general, than Aaron would be included in that prayer, but it's obvious referring to one who is a Messenger in ways other Messengers are not.

So if Moses was the one sent to the whole world, then who is the one who God will send?


Up to this point, the subtle nature of the scripture is from God.

But when it starting getting explicit with Joshua, it's obvious at this point corrupted by humans.

All the evidence from Adam -Seth, etc, Abraham's chosen offspring, Lot, etc, all that pointed to the truth of the promise of Aaron and his offspring.

But one way to approach this is to say, ok, they changed it, let's abandon all of it.

For example, when it says "Samuel" means name of God, and Samuel appoints he was asked for that is back on track. When Saul get's an evil spirit totally refutes all that has been discussed up to this point.

What is the purpose of this?

It's the nature of sorcery. They wish to test people's intelligence, so they leave what speaks the truth with the contradiction.

People can't pick, and so, the Magicians, say, see they are too stupid to even know a contradiction, so why should we initiate them in our secrets?

When it get's to Elijah, it is big time on track. And it shows the essential battle between good and evil, the true God vs the false God portrayed by the serpent.


But the truth is still there. Even with all the contradiction to the central message, it is still there.

It is there with Solomon and the Twelve Giant Lion statue. It is there when Elijah shows the true God is Yahweh.

It has the beauty but mixed with the ugly lie.

It iterates the truth beautiful to make way for the family of Moses and Aaron, only to break the promise as if all that lead to it, was not meaningful at all.

But what this shows is even a greater truth. It shows the blindness to see the iteration of God vs the contradiction to it from Iblis.

Now with regard to the Quran, you don't need AS much as an attention span to see the flow of the Torah, it spells out the flow of the Torah and poses the reflective thoughts were needed on these subjects and emphasizes on what he is emphasizing on.

Yet people can't read this flow. It iterates without anything contradicting it in the Quran, yet people can't read the flow.

The Torah iterates it by order while the Quran iterates without order from A to Z like the Torah.

Yet it comments on it. And then you understand it. You understand the talk of the serpent.

There is sorcery regarding it, in the case of the Torah, the falsehood contradicting it is in what is known as the Torah.

The Quran however having no contradiction - the sorcery to it is followed as well in the form of blindly following hadiths by opinions of a few clergy.

Now going back to Seth and going back to all corruption coming from people taking the name of God for themselves, and read then the covenant of EXALTED leadership of Aaron and his offspring, then everything is clear.

Up to this point, before it diverges, and converges back, and diverges, place to place, being inconsistent.


Now IF the Quran contradicts itself in the same way, it is upon us, to abandon what contradicts it's true iteration.


And all this has to go back to something, some dark nature on the hearts, some subtle enemy that is hidden yet manifest.

And so you get the wisdom of mentioning the serpent and fall. For it was a warning from Moses to his people, but it was so subtle, all that, all that lead up to make way for to Aaron and his family, that the opponents of the truth didn't mind leaving it in mostly as is.

The truth of the family of Abraham is the truth of the family of Aaron, it's the truth of the wisdom of the Seth to Adam, it's the truth of the name 'Samuel' name of God and it is the truth that it God's help against those who take the name of God without proof for themselves.

You see you can talk about harsh laws, you can talk about this and that about slaves, but who cares.... who cares when the central message is proven, yet contradicted.

Who cares... does it really matter? Of course the laws are going to be corrupted.

But what are you going to believe? In the chosen families such as Family of Abraham, in the images and names of God such as Samuel, in the true anointed kings, or you going to throw all that out because of the contradiction.

To me it becomes obvious due to this contradiction, it was originally from God. And all the opposition is to hide the truth of the one who God will send and the successor of Moses being Aaron, to confuse the masses, to make it the story particularly about the Israelites when it was a universal tale, when believers were oppressed and saved many times.

You see Abraham's family was no the first chosen family nor would be the last.

All this is to confuse you. And in the Torah with the dark sorcery of upon the Quran, there is no doubt enemies to the truth iterated in both the Torah and Quran.

It is so vividly clear. If you ask a Jew was there any chance of Joshua becoming evil or Moses becoming evil they will say no, yet Saul was chosen and becomes evil for some reason.

Something is not adding up. God promises Aaron and his offspring the high exalted guiding leadership only to break his covenant.

Something is up.

Time to wake up people and smell the coffee.
 
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salt-n-light

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Religious laws...they can be so very cruel sometimes. Especially when executed by the self-righteous.

Some are harsh, but fair, if you actually get to read all 611 (613) of them.

And self-righteous, you mean the priests at those times?
 
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that's a big question. it's certainly not the most terrible of things. what is more frightening is that so many would blindly follow after some authority figure and do all kinds of insane things. thankfully we have the advantage of 2,000~ years of maturation and many wise fellows who saw the law in the divine light even if it's earthly garb was in part a product of it's times.

death nourishes life. the dead falling leaves of the tree aid in their own ways which is a symbol of how divine providence keeps spirits free and yet orders them according to his goodness. death is an outer layer of reality. the letter is the tail and the wisdom hidden from the old age being the head.



it does, when we die and see the light. it could be useful to rebel though, if you have a pure heart and confront God in the spirit of justice and faith.



on the day you eat of the forbidden fruit you will die, do you understand?

Well, why would I not understand,
I mean, just been made,
first person to ever live?

His first meeting with physical death was when Cain clobbered Abel.
He himself, Adam lived almost a thousand years.

But then, a thousand years in Your eyes.......

Everything was ticking over, sunrise, sunset,
a cursed earth giving fleas, lice and all sorts,

What was missing?
The Presence of the Holy One,
The divine presence had withdrawn,

Left to their own devices,

Cut off,

no contact,
Not until they realized what was up.

What it meant to be dead.

Sin turns the heart cold and hard,
like in a corpse,
when one sins so much they don,t care anymore the heart becomes as hard as stone,
therewith,
stoning themselves.
 
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danny ski

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Which only goes to show that a reasoning , arguing , debating culture can develop a more functional and humane code of ethics AND law than a supposedly "holy" book telling people it's okay to beat slaves so severely that they cannot stand up for days, but that it is totally your sacred duty to stone homosexuals , ex-virgins who didn't struggle enough when assaulted, and people collecting sticks on the wrong day.
An eye for an eye the Torah teaches. How do you punish an one eyed perp? Or a blind one? The Torah is an anchor in the ever moving society. The US Constitution is a decent analogy.
 
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cloudyday2

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Feels like a lifetime ago for me.
I'd offer to help but I doubt they're teaching you LISP and I don't think I remember my linear algebra.
I had a terrible time writing programs in LISP. It was interesting that some people didn't have trouble with it and other people did have trouble. I don't know if some people are smarter or if it is that some people think differently by nature so that LISP is easier. Oh well. ... I think people who are inclined towards pure math might be more comfortable with LISP too. IDK
 
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awitch

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I had a terrible time writing programs in LISP. It was interesting that some people didn't have trouble with it and other people did have trouble. I don't know if some people are smarter or if it is that some people think differently by nature so that LISP is easier. Oh well. ... I think people who are inclined towards pure math might be more comfortable with LISP too. IDK

((I had)(((no)idea)what)I)was(doing either)
 
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dlamberth

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Some are harsh, but fair, if you actually get to read all 611 (613) of them.

And self-righteous, you mean the priests at those times?
Yes, the priest of those times, as well as the unrestrained religious that we have seen even up to today.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Some are harsh, but fair, if you actually get to read all 611 (613) of them.
Haha. No.
Murdering people for collecting sticks (by throwing stones at the perps until they perish) is not even in the same general time zone as "harsh but fair". There have been plenty of dictatorships out there with fairer laws than those.
 
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AskTheFamily

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That was an unnecessarily long post that I posted.

I will summarize and emphasize on some new points.

The reason God emphasizes that no one take the position of his name and image but who he chooses to represent him and sets on earth, and the reason he emphasizes on appointing successors, and the reason he emphasizes on the chosen relatives of Abraham, Isaac, etc, and warns of the dangers of envy, is so we don't envy the chosen family of our time, but love them and support them. Aaron and his family were such a family and the one known as the one who God will send will have such a family, and Aaron can't convey more then what Moses can convey except that he would be in different circumstance and time demonstrating he was the successor of Moses and Aaron's family was a family like Abraham's, and all this was to prepare for the 12 Successors of the one who God will send, who are the near kin of the Messenger, and it's always the near kin that God asks is to cherish and hold on to, like people were meant to cherish Joseph and his special relationship to his forefathers and Sarah. The bible emphases on the family of David is to go back on track, but the family of David which children of Isreal envied, was the family of Moses and Aaron, which is the family that Jesus linked back to even though his link has no father, but is by the exalted Mary. And the Twelve Lions with Solomon represented by statues was to emphasize on his predecessors going back to Moses and successors all the way to Jesus. And this is what Jesus meant by he was the morning star from the family of David, that there must a chosen one in a divinely chosen family, and now people having given the position of God's Name to scholars and clergy, could not recognize who was the light of the world and means of God channeling his light, the path, the way, and means to God.
 
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AskTheFamily

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Yes, the priest of those times, as well as the unrestrained religious that we have seen even up to today.

The thing about harsh laws like lashing etc, they are meant only for when the proof is manifested clearly and only to be implemented by the likes of Moses, Abraham, Jesus, etc.

The reason Jesus emphasize to put such laws on suspension, is because, there would be no longer an apparent Guide on earth till Mohammad in my view. No one is worthy for many reasons to implement such laws in absence of a Guide.

One problem with allowing clergy to implement such laws is that they can often ignore the truth and implement false laws that are unjust.

Another problem is that Guides are meant to polarize people to good in such a way, that evil, becomes a huge act of rebellion and weakness becomes inexcusable, but without the presence of a guide in the open, these laws are too harsh for a people without a Guide because the only reason they are without a guide is because they aren't controllable and evil has become the norm.

In that respect, laws based more on the compassion side make sense, because society overall has failed to uphold the revelation so it would be hypocritical to apply some laws while ignoring the central message to act justly (by which the leader is now hidden due to).
 
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dlamberth

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The thing about harsh laws like lashing etc, they are meant only for when the proof is manifested clearly and only to be implemented by the likes of Moses, Abraham, Jesus, etc.
I don't believe that one bit. The reason why harsh religious laws are implemented is because of human ego's wanting to control. It has nothing to do with God.
 
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Perhaps you don't believe it because you want EGOs in control as opposed to God in control and humans benefiting from his light in a manifest proof.

Woe to those who give authority with respect to guidance to deceiving humans as opposed to God and the True Kings he appoints.
 
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