The tongue.

[now faith]

You may or may not like Kenneth Copeland, but what inside edition did was gross.
Copeland was getting into his SUV and a girl rushed up to him with a microphone.
This was on His property keep this in mind.
She started to bomb him with calling people on airplanes Demons.
I'm guilty as charged I supposed as well.
Before He could answer She was throwing more and more rhetorical accusatory questions at him.
He was caught off guard to say the least but tried his best to be kind to her.
She ignored one answer that I liked.
She asked how he had gotten so rich.
Copeland replied .. see all this land we are on, he pointed outward and said it is full of natural gas. Or implied there was a abundance of wealth on that property.
He should have shut it down then, he went on to preach about Abrahams blessing being on us and quoting Galations.
The girl had a Christian like persona but I think it was over her head, or did not embarrass him enough.
That was her reason for rushing up to him to embarrass him.
Look around and you will see this tactic everywhere.
A rush of accusation in question form, I wonder who else gets the works from the fake news?
Then look at the comments, hoards of people saying he looks like a demon and is pure evil, his eyes have demons and so on.
God help them all if their wrong and blastphme occurs about his works.
Could this be a trap of the devil?
If it is God help you.
If it isn't who cares?
Ultimately God will judge, being part of Word of Faith gets you a lot of critism.
Our critics condem us and do not know us.
We did not coin the phrase prosperity Gospel, wish we had.
Who in the body of Christ has not prospered?
What term would please others the Gospel of pity on me?
In case anyone lacks understanding of prosperity, it means more than money but does include money, if others choose not to use money as their provision, then they must find gold under rainbows.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You may or may not like Kenneth Copeland, but what inside edition did was gross.
Copeland was getting into his SUV and a girl rushed up to him with a microphone.
This was on His property keep this in mind.
She started to bomb him with calling people on airplanes Demons.
I'm guilty as charged I supposed as well.
Before He could answer She was throwing more and more rhetorical accusatory questions at him.
He was caught off guard to say the least but tried his best to be kind to her.
She ignored one answer that I liked.
She asked how he had gotten so rich.
Copeland replied .. see all this land we are on, he pointed outward and said it is full of natural gas. Or implied there was a abundance of wealth on that property.
He should have shut it down then, he went on to preach about Abrahams blessing being on us and quoting Galations.
The girl had a Christian like persona but I think it was over her head, or did not embarrass him enough.
That was her reason for rushing up to him to embarrass him.
Look around and you will see this tactic everywhere.
A rush of accusation in question form, I wonder who else gets the works from the fake news?
Then look at the comments, hoards of people saying he looks like a demon and is pure evil, his eyes have demons and so on.
God help them all if their wrong and blastphme occurs about his works.
Could this be a trap of the devil?
If it is God help you.
If it isn't who cares?
Ultimately God will judge, being part of Word of Faith gets you a lot of critism.
Our critics condem us and do not know us.
We did not coin the phrase prosperity Gospel, wish we had.
Who in the body of Christ has not prospered?
What term would please others the Gospel of pity on me?
In case anyone lacks understanding of prosperity, it means more than money but does include money, if others choose not to use money as their provision, then they must find gold under rainbows.

Although the First Century Christians knew nothing about the prosperity gospel, seeing that many had their property confiscated, persecuted, lived in caves, wearing animal skins, being killed for their faith, and yet were shining lights for the Lord; there was no excuse for that woman to accost Kenneth Copeland in the way she did. What she did was bullying and abuse, and it is a comment on his gracious attitude that Kenneth didn't punch her on the nose!

 

[now faith]

Why are people so hypocritical on prosperity?
Do the critics live in caves no.
Do they spend their money on idols yes.
Do they preach a double standard yes.
What is the opposite of prosperity?
Hell, Poverty , and Sickness.
It is dangerous to condem people , when you really don't know.
Did God give Copeland land with a abundance of natural gas?
If so that is not ripping off his congregation, it is recieving from God.
Him looking wild ? He is at least eighty years old,you should see my eyes when I'm starting work., and kaos erupts.
Inside edition is not much of a moral standard for our learning any way.

 

[now faith]

It is amusing to me that people who blast preachers for their income will not tithe themselves.
How many critics will give all they have to the poor?
How many give to their favorite team?
How many make 200,000 a year and think that is ok but a preacher should be a pauper?
The standards that we hold others to, as Christians we should live by the same.
If you do the talk , that is tell others about excesses then you should be able to live by what ever standard you curse with.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Quite right about the critics being more "prosperous" than those they criticize. They are essentially trying to talk the poor out of believing God for the goodness He has for them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Quite right about the critics being more "prosperous" than those they criticize. They are essentially trying to talk the poor out of believing God for the goodness He has for them.

Everything we have is what we have received from God. Some have received more, some less. But we have no right to have received anything but an eternity in hell. So to have food to eat, clothes to wear, and a roof over our heads is all from the grace and mercy of God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I disagree. Everything is covered by the atonement. This idea is expressed over and over in the NT. He did not leave anything out. If we can pray for a thing in the name of Jesus... it is because it is covered in the atonement. God made Jesus Lord and Christ.. and everything that is received by believers is based on the atonement. None of this is any longer based on "new" mercy... it is based on the mercy that was executed at the cross and which now is justice, and His faithfulness to execute that justice.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I disagree. Everything is covered by the atonement. This idea is expressed over and over in the NT. He did not leave anything out. If we can pray for a thing in the name of Jesus... it is because it is covered in the atonement. God made Jesus Lord and Christ.. and everything that is received by believers is based on the atonement. None of this is any longer based on "new" mercy... it is based on the mercy that was executed at the cross and which now is justice, and His faithfulness to execute that justice.

I go along with that. I just answered Paul's question, "Is there anything you have that you did not receive?"

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I go along with that. I just answered Paul's question, "Is there anything you have that you did not receive?"

45 years in the "faith movement" and I think this is the basic difference between our beliefs and "evangelical" Protestants. Many think that all Jesus did was save us from hell and that is it. Everything else is up in the air and not accessible by faith in the name of Jesus. Essentially they believe that God will say no to their requests which are made in His name. Personally I believe God never says no to the name of Jesus. If you can ask in faith... you can receive.
Thanks.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

45 years in the "faith movement" and I think this is the basic difference between our beliefs and "evangelical" Protestants. Many think that all Jesus did was save us from hell and that is it. Everything else is up in the air and not accessible by faith in the name of Jesus. Essentially they believe that God will say no to their requests which are made in His name. Personally I believe God never says no to the name of Jesus. If you can ask in faith... you can receive.
Thanks.

You are correct when you say "can" receive, and not "will" receive. There is a difference. When we ask in prayer, it goes on to God's desk and He deals with it according to His will and purpose. In Philippians 4:6-7, the immediate outcome of putting our request to God is that we receive the peace of God that passes all understanding.

We get the assurance that God has heard our prayer; "His eye is on the righteous and His ears are open to their prayers"; then we get: "I'm on the case now. Leave it with Me." We then trust God for the outcome, whatever it may be. We may not receive exactly what we are asking for, because it might not be either beneficial for us or others around us. But we receive total peace and contentment that no matter what happens, we know that we are walking in the Spirit and God is for us and that everything is working together for good for us who are called of God according to His will and purpose.

So, if we find ourselves in a tin shack on the backside of the desert and are praying that God will relocate us to somewhere more temperate and comfortable, after asking God, we receive peace and contentment so that even though we are not relocated right away, we have peace in our present situation.

 

[now faith]

Christ in us, upon salvation we go from temporal to eternal beings.
Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit has given us all that dwells in the Body.
He is with us always, does He want us in poverty?
Many are the afflictions of the rightous,but The Lord delivers them from all.
We know God has Blessed our lives, and removed our afflictions so why would we live in poverty?
Only if it was ordained that we be called to that as a ministry, not because God wants us to suffer.
How can we compare to the sacrifice of Christ?
We cannot nor can we earn his rightousness.

 

[now faith]

I'm not suggesting anyone here is like this, yet some religous zelots have a Pride in their afflictions.
It is the opposite of the lust of money it is a lust for humility.
They want to be holy from their works and their suffering, not looking to God who is the author and finisher of our Faith.

I am afraid for people who have such bitterness against people of God.
They accuse a preacher any preacher of being a Demon??
Because of squabbling denomations?
This becomes a habit and no one is rightous in their eyes, they become Pharisees and Hyprocritics.

Our Lord had a opinion on legalism.

Matthew 23: 13. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18. And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20. Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Christ in us, upon salvation we go from temporal to eternal beings.
Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit has given us all that dwells in the Body.
He is with us always, does He want us in poverty?
Many are the afflictions of the rightous,but The Lord delivers them from all.
We know God has Blessed our lives, and removed our afflictions so why would we live in poverty?
Only if it was ordained that we be called to that as a ministry, not because God wants us to suffer.
How can we compare to the sacrifice of Christ?
We cannot nor can we earn his righteousness.

My answer to this is:

"Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or marked off the heavens with the span of his hand? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on a scale and the hills with a balance? Who can fathom the Spirit of the LORD, or instruct the LORD as his counselor? Whom did He consult to enlighten Him, and who taught Him the paths of justice? Who imparted knowledge to Him and showed Him the way of understanding?" (Isaiah 40:12-14).

I don't think that any of us will get very far with God if we try to tell Him what to do and to question Him why some are wealthy and others are living in poverty.

Here is another Scripture that some misquote and teach that we can command God to do what we want Him to do. These are the ones who say to the Lord, "I have made my positive confession about this, and I am believing, so you'd better come to the party!!" The Lord's reply to you will be this:

"This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?" (Isaiah 45:11).

In other words, God is saying, "Who in the blazes are you, and who do you think you are, to come to Me and tell me what to do??"

 

[now faith]

There is a hatred of all things in Christ today , a hatred of all that is Good.
Our Nation ,our Preachers ,our confession of Faith is hated.
God's goodness is not politically correct nor is a prosperity for America.
Every thing right is being tested, and everything wrong is being promoted.
We need to wake up in the Body of Christ and stand for what we know to be true.
Inside edition is just another hate group in the form of media.

 

[now faith]

Galatians 4: 4. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5. To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Bless God for Christ Blood, we are heirs to all the promises of God, and do not serve the law

 

[now faith]

My answer to this is:

"Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or marked off the heavens with the span of his hand? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on a scale and the hills with a balance? Who can fathom the Spirit of the LORD, or instruct the LORD as his counselor? Whom did He consult to enlighten Him, and who taught Him the paths of justice? Who imparted knowledge to Him and showed Him the way of understanding?" (Isaiah 40:12-14).

I don't think that any of us will get very far with God if we try to tell Him what to do and to question Him why some are wealthy and others are living in poverty.

Here is another Scripture that some misquote and teach that we can command God to do what we want Him to do. These are the ones who say to the Lord, "I have made my positive confession about this, and I am believing, so you'd better come to the party!!" The Lord's reply to you will be this:

"This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?" (Isaiah 45:11).

In other words, God is saying, "Who in the blazes are you, and who do you think you are, to come to Me and tell me what to do??"

That was to a disobedience of Israel not the Sons of God through Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Galatians 4: 4. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5. To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Bless God for Christ Blood, we are heirs to all the promises of God, and do not serve the law

Correct, and the Scripture says that what God has promised, He has the power to perform (Romans 4:21). Of course it all depends on what God is promising and when He is going to fulfill the promise.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That was to a disobedience of Israel not the Sons of God through Christ.

Sure. But the principle of those Scriptures is transcultural. If disobedient Israel had no right to tell God what to do and how to do it, neither do we.

Even though God has promised, it is through faith and patience that we inherit the promise (Hebrews 6:12). Some take hold of a promise, use positive confession and believe and believe and believe thinking that they can twist God's arm up His back by believing for what they think God has promised, and yet they forget about the patience bit.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There is much to say in this. But not here in Now Faith's thread. Another time and place.

Needless to say the WoF "paradigm" is much different from the "normal" Christian paradigm. We see Christ, the gospel, the promises(all fulfilled), and the Word as "God's plan" for our lives. Many in the "normal" paradigm do not and will opt out of elements of God's plan and defer to some "personal plan" that may reject the full redemptive work of Christ. After learning, teaching, and debating this for 48 years I have come to the conclusion that rejection of the fullness of redemption can be boiled down to being a works based addition to salvation.

• We have to suffer a little because Christ's suffering was not enough to actually get the job done.
• We want to feel good about ourselves and so endure needless lack and suffering thinking we we get a pat on the back and extra credit for it.
• We want to see God involved in every area of our lives... and that is good! But some choose to see God in their suffering and lack, even assigning such suffering to Him so they can feel like He is "involved in their lives."

Of course they do these things in ignorance and call their acceptance of suffering and lack being "faithful" to God and the imagined "plan for their lives." Like some in the days of Jesus, they make void the Word of God by following their religious traditions. Unfortunately they also drag other believers into that mindset: possibly condemning these people to needless suffering and lack, and inevitable doubt about the goodness and love of God.
Of course all believers, even faith believers, endure hardship and suffering. But faith, that is our confession of belief, says that He has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. I have been rich and I have been poor. I have been healthy and I have been sick. I have had good times and bad. But by the grace of God I have strived to always confess the Word of God as truth regardless of the outward appearance. Faith is not simply accepting everything that comes and declaring it to be "God's will" and part of some imaginary "plan for our lives." Faith is believing and proclaiming the redemptive work of Jesus as complete and the Word of God as truth. Nothing added. Nothing taken away. Jesus, the gospel, and the Word... these ARE God's plan.

 

[now faith]

I do not mind Oscar commenting on a thread.
I have considered Him a friend for years even though we do not always agree.
In one way others with a different viewpoint can help make my point in this post.
When true Christians do not see things the same way, we do not
Make Adhominim statements to the others character.
The cruelty that is being spewed today by the secular media , some
Religions, and Politicians is like never before in our history.
I found myself today speaking out against commentary over Joel Olstine.
The comments were shamefully written, and I believe it was a secular report against him.
They are Wolves who stir great discord among the Body.
I do not follow Joel , yet unlike his critics I refuse to condemn him for making money from the books he writes.
So they say he is a demon for having bestselling books and Kennth Copeland is a demon for having a property with natural gas on it.
Hyprocritics all of them!
They are making a good living bashing people they know nothing about.
So if a preacher is bad it's his own destruction at hand.
But if He is rightous how many will fall from their tongues speaking against God's anointing?