The Tithe

[th1bill]

Heb. 7: 2 to whom also Abraham divided a tenth part of all (being first, by interpretation, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace; 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God), remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth out of the best spoils. 5 They indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest’s office have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brothers, though these have come out of the loins of Abraham, 6 but he whose genealogy is not counted from them has taken tithes of Abraham, and has blessed him who has the promises.

The tithe is a much distrusted thought today when in reality it is a form of worship to the follower of Christ. When Abraham gave a tenth to Melchizedek, he laid a foundation, a custom, if you will, that has been confirmed in the scriptures ever since.

Melchizedek was not just someone that walked in from the wilderness, he was sent by God for a purpose. As we look back over time we see that he was sent to establish a pattern of worship for the believer to follow. Please take note here that I have said that this is for the believer. II Cor. 9:7 Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. If it is not in a man's heart to give to the LORD, then may God forbid that he give anything!

I know folks today that will not come to church because the first thing somebody hit them with was that they had to give their tithe to the church before God will bless them. Just the circumstances of life make that statement a lie. Men have no idea how the universe hangs in nothingness the way it does but the truth is that it is where it is because God maintains it and sees to it that his will is being completed. Nothing is in place because I ever gave a dime to the church, nor have I ever. My tithe is unto the LORD, my God and for His good purposes.

If the doors of the Church I attend were to be forced closed tomorrow and there was not another assembly for a hundred miles to worship with, we would have church. Save the independent Churches, none of the congregations are strapped to the enclosures we are blessed with right now.

I knew a pastor that testified that his most satisfying and most profitable ministry was his first church. I also promised to never give up his name and now that I have MS I can't but after graduation he took his family and moved to the small town to be informed, after moving into the pastorate that his wage was whatever the collection was on Sunday.

After the first Sunday service he had $3.15 in the collection. He was really worried and went to the LORD immediately. Monday morning one of his members, a farmer, stopped by and asked him to get his car and follow him home. When he returned he had a trunk full of fresh cut steaks, smoked Hams and sausage. Before the week was out he had enough supplies in his house for the year and the owner of the gas station told him just to be sure to write down on a pad for him how many gallons of gas he used. And so it was that his small family lacked for nothing even though he had no salary.

An important thing to remember is that God has never filed for bankruptcy. I have found that the more I give to God the more He takes care of me but if you feel that you need to hold onto your money, do so! God only wants it if you can worship Him in the giving.

 

[GaryArnold]

In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law.

In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change.

Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled.

Abraham's gave a tenth of spoils of war, NOT from his own property or his own income. BEFORE Abraham even went to war, he made a vow that he would keep nothing. He gave 10% to the King of Salem, and the rest to the King of Sodom. Is this how you tithe?

God gave His definition as a tenth of crops and animals which came from God's hand, not man's income. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Leviticus 27:30-33.

The ordinances (instructions, or laws) for The Lord's Tithe are in Numbers 18. God gave strict orders to take His tithe to the Levites. God NEVER changed that command. Anyone who takes God's tithe to anyone other than the Levites is being disobedient to God's Word.

There are others tithes in the Bible such as the Festival Tithe and the Tithe for the Poor. It is The Lord's Tithe that churches pattern their teaching after.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocket book. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then are really ignorant of what the scriptures say. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

You can rationalize it all you want. GOD defined HIS tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 and gave HIS ordinances, or instructions in Numbers 18. No tithe or pastor follows God's commands to tithe. You ignore His definition, and you ignore His instructions.

To call a tenth of one's income The Lord's Tithe is an insult to God.

 

[dies-l]

As with all things, under the New Covenant, the tithe is not something that is done out of duty or obligation, but out of one's desire that springs from gratitude for the generosity that God bestows on us. I believe that Christians should tithe, but I also believe that one should not do anything out of obligation.

IOW, if you don't want to tithe, then don't. If you want to give 90% of your income, then give 90% of your income. If you don't want to give anything, then don't give anything. No matter where we are with giving, however, we should always be asking how we can give more and examining ourselves to see why we are not being more generous. Everything we have ultimately belongs to God anyway, so we should always be looking for opportunities to grow in our generosity.

 

[GaryArnold]

We need to distinguish between tithing and giving. I believe in generous giving, from the heart.

When we call our giving of a tenth of our income a tithe, one associates this tithe with the Biblical tithe, or The Lord's Tithe. But it is not. It is really just giving.

To use the word "tithe" for our giving, in my opinion, is being disrespectful to our Loving God. HIS tithe comes ONLY from HIS increase, not our income.

It's a shame that pastors have cheapened God's tithe this way by their false teachings.

GIVE, yes, but don't infer it's The Lord's Tithe.

 

[dies-l]

Why do you think the word "tithe" is disrespectful? It is the word that Scripture uses to describe giving 1/10 of one's income to God. I agree that we should not hold to it as a legalistic obligation, but if one chooses to make this the baseline for their giving, why not call it what it is?

 

[GaryArnold]

You said, "It is the word that Scripture uses to describe giving 1/10 of one's income to God."

That is NOT correct. God DEFINED His Tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as a tenth of CROPS and ANIMALS, which are ASSETS that came directly from God's hand, NOT income from man's hand. The Lord's Tithe was all about God, not man. To claim YOUR income is God's tithe in elevating yourself to a level where you feel your income is Holy. It is NOT.

A new book, "You Mean I Don't Have to Tithe" by Dr. David Croteau from the Southeastern Baptist Seminary explains that tithing is NOT proper in the Christian Church. Dr. Croteau, and others, are now teaching new pastors that there should be NO tithing in the Christian Church.

 

[bubbles881]

Regardless of whether the Bible says you have to or not, what's so bad about setting aside 1/10 of one's income to God? How is it an insult to God?

 

[GaryArnold]

When did I say giving a tenth of one's income to the church is bad or wrong? I said calling it God's tithe is wrong. It is NOT The Lord's Tithe.

When you call your giving a tithe, you are inferring that it is the Biblical Tithe, and it is NOT. THAT'S what is insulting to God - calling a tenth of your income His tithe.

The Biblical Tithe was a PAYMENT, not a gift, and came ONLY from God's miraculous increase, NOT man's income.

 

[bubbles881]

Oh okay, thank you!

 

[dies-l]

You said, "It is the word that Scripture uses to describe giving 1/10 of one's income to God."

That is NOT correct. God DEFINED His Tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as a tenth of CROPS and ANIMALS, which are ASSETS that came directly from God's hand, NOT income from man's hand.

The tithe existed before the Law. It originated with Abraham and Melchizedek, and the Bible says that Abraham gave a tenth of everything.

The Lord's Tithe was all about God, not man. To claim YOUR income is God's tithe in elevating yourself to a level where you feel your income is Holy. It is NOT.

Just the opposite. To say that your income is anything but God's blessing on your life is to elevate yourself. To acknowledge that our income, regardless of the source, is only available by God's blessing is what the tithe was about for old covenant and pre covenantal people of God. The difference today is that we are not ordered to give the tithe or obey the law. Rather, we do so as a response to God's generosity to us. Still, if our response is to continue to give the tithe, not as a legal obligation, but as a willing response to God's mercy, I don't see why we should call it something different.

A new book, "You Mean I Don't Have to Tithe" by Dr. David Croteau from the Southeastern Baptist Seminary explains that tithing is NOT proper in the Christian Church. Dr. Croteau, and others, are now teaching new pastors that there should be NO tithing in the Christian Church.

That's great. I am all in favor of Christians putting their ideas out into the public realm. Nonetheless, if that is what he teaches, I disagree with Dr. Croteau, just as I disagree with you.

 

[GaryArnold]

You said, "The tithe existed before the Law. It originated with Abraham and Melchizedek, and the Bible says that Abraham gave a tenth of everything."

Hebrews 7 clarifies that "everything" means a tenth of all the spoils of war.

The story of Abraham in Genesis is NOT about tithing. Tithing is mentioned in the middle of the story.

The scriptures show that Abraham tithed ONLY ONCE, on spoils of war, NOT on his own property or his own wealth or his own income, and he GAVE the other 90% to the King of Sodom.

Abraham tithed OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY, not his own property. Is that the example you follow? Do you gather up 300 plus friends, go to war, bring back captives and property and then give a tenth of that to your church? NEITHER YOU NOR ANYONE ELSE FOLLOWS ABRAHAM'S EXAMPLE.

We have a completely different and much better relationship with God than Abraham had. It calls for a totally different way of life—led by the Spirit and tailored to each person uniquely and individually. Consider the differences between a believer in Jesus Christ and Abraham:

Abraham had not been redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
Abraham's sins were not remitted (totally forgiven and washed away) they were only temporarily covered and overlooked.
Abraham had not been baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.
Abraham was not in an actual spiritual union with God.
Abraham's old nature had not been crucified with Christ.
Abraham had not been born again and spiritually re-created with God's own divine nature in him.
Abraham was not a son of God with the same standing as Jesus Christ in God's family.
Abraham had not been made the righteousness of God. (His faith was only counted for righteousness.)
Abraham could not say, “It is Christ that lives in me.”
Abraham was not the temple of God. God did not dwell in him.
Abraham did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to lead him.
Abraham had not been delivered out of the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's Son.
Abraham had not been made alive with Christ, raised up with him, and seated with him at the Father's right hand.
Abraham had not been blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.
Abraham was not a joint owner of all things through spiritual union with the resurrected Christ.
Abraham did not have access to all authority in heaven and earth through the name of Jesus.
Abraham could not do the same works as Jesus and even greater works that Jesus said we would do, nor could he grow up into full stature in Christ.

Abraham did many things, including lying about his wife. Just because Abraham did something doesn't mean we are supposed to do the same thing.

When Abraham "tithed" the definition of tithe was merely a tenth, a mathematical term. Later, in Leviticus 27:30-33, God gave us a NEW definition, HIS definition. If you wish to ignore God's definition and God's ordinances, so be it. I BELIEVE GOD GAVE US HIS WORD TO FOLLOW, NOT TAMPER WITH.

By calling a tenth of your income His tithe, you must think you know what's best. But you are insulting our Loving God, just like so many false preachers.

Many pastors know they are teaching a lie but do it to get the money.

 

[th1bill]

In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law.

In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change.

Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled.

There is one good point about all of your ranting and misapplying scripture, I'm not the one that will stand in front of the Bema Seat of Judgement and try to justify the misapplication of God's word.

 

[GaryArnold]

If Hebrews 7:18 isn't telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled, then you tell me what command was disannulled. If it wasn't Numbers 18, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Give me some scripture to show I am wrong.

 

[DesertJoe]

God Bless you Bill.You really nailed it.If tithing was rewarded every time in a monetary sense,many of us would make Bill Gates look like a bag lady.When it comes down to it,how much would any of us give for one drop of Jesus' blood.It is written "For God so loved the world that He gave....." He gave not His leftovers,but He gave Himself.Many say they love Jesus.Jesus said "For where your treasure is,there your heart will be also" (Luke 12:34,Matthew 6:21). God bless you

 

[th1bill]

God Bless you Bill.You really nailed it.If tithing was rewarded every time in a monetary sense,many of us would make Bill Gates look like a bag lady.When it comes down to it,how much would any of us give for one drop of Jesus' blood.It is written "For God so loved the world that He gave....." He gave not His leftovers,but He gave Himself.Many say they love Jesus.Jesus said "For where your treasure is,there your heart will be also" (Luke 12:34,Matthew 6:21). God bless you

Thank-you Joe. I would give a great deal if others could cease to believe that Heaven is some sort of a democracy and begin to learn Kingdom living. I recently posted a message about Biblical Slavery and how we "belong" to Jesus and that we owe Him everything and in a couple of the forums I was told that Jesus had freed them and that they owed Jesus nothing and they were not His Bond Servants. It seems that many, claiming the name of Christ are unwilling to submit today.

 

[Timothew]

Thank-you Joe. I would give a great deal if others could cease to believe that Heaven is some sort of a democracy and begin to learn Kingdom living. I recently posted a message about Biblical Slavery and how we "belong" to Jesus and that we owe Him everything and in a couple of the forums I was told that Jesus had freed them and that they owed Jesus nothing and they were not His Bond Servants. It seems that many, claiming the name of Christ are unwilling to submit today.

Do the Kings of this world tax their children, or strangers?

 

[Hammster]

Thank-you Joe. I would give a great deal if others could cease to believe that Heaven is some sort of a democracy and begin to learn Kingdom living. I recently posted a message about Biblical Slavery and how we "belong" to Jesus and that we owe Him everything and in a couple of the forums I was told that Jesus had freed them and that they owed Jesus nothing and they were not His Bond Servants. It seems that many, claiming the name of Christ are unwilling to submit today.

Or, we could have disagreed with you because you were flat out wrong on your basic premise. That's more likely.

 

[DesertJoe]

Being a bondservant is a choice one makes.If Jesus is Lord & if He died for you & for me,& yet He is not worthy of directing our steps,then we are totally free to do whatsoever we choose.We can do what Hitler did.We can do what Stalin did.If it is true that Jesus set us free to do our own will,then we need not pray "Your Kingdom come,YOUR WILL be done." I guess Jesus was just having an off day when He taught His disciples to pray that way.A bondservant is one who chooses to stay with his Lord.You can see the picture given in Exodus 21:5.You can say that we can choose to go free just as the opportunity is presented in that verse,& you would be correct.But note that if you choose to do so,you are no longer a member of the household.You might say (& betray your hubris in so doing),that you are a son or a daughter,& not a slave.Fine then,but what son or daughter does not do far more for the good of the family than a slave?It says in Matthew 6:24 ""No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money".You may say that you are not a slave,but you are.You are either a slave to your lusts,a slave to sin,or in the freedom that Jesus bought for you,you are as Paul said in 1st Corinthians 7:22 "For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave".By choosing your own will in matters of life,you are not declaring your freedom in Christ.You are rather declaring whose slave you are.

 

[th1bill]

Do the Kings of this world tax their children, or strangers?

I'm sorry, but I miss your point.

 

[th1bill]

Or, we could have disagreed with you because you were flat out wrong on your basic premise. That's more likely.

Perhaps you could explain to the rest of us what you mean?