The time when I nearly fell to Buddhism.

[ananda]

There is no end to eternal love for it is eternal . That is the "field" in the parable in which the man sold all that he had in order to buy that field. Divine love is it's own reward . Love and forgiveness are only concepts until they are experienced and then they work a humility in one's heart and an understanding . If I start from the position , "In the beginning God" , it takes a lot of pressure off of me for it is not about me , it is about God . And we see in experiential ways that good fathers desire that their children be like them . If a father adopts an abused child who has learned unlove , his desire is that his child be conformed into His image , not in the image of his biological parents . Consequently , I believe it is the Father's will that we be like Him , who is also eternal .
Belief in Christ is also called the gospel of reconciliation . To be reconciled . If you have never been estranged from dearly loved children , the importance of reconciliation can only be a mental exercise . It is also a demonstration of extreme love and self-denial . For the joy that was set before Him ( reconciling children to the Father ) , he endured the suffering of the cross .
I guess another answer to the to what end question is the promise of innocence regained ..a pure child innocence before we knew there was evil . ( Forbid not the infants for of such is the kingdom of heaven ...therefore whosoever does not humble himself like this little child ,shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven . )

There is no further purpose for "divine love", "hope", "love and forgiveness", "be like God", "reconciliation", "innocence regained"? When I was a Christian, it was my understanding that these things were not ends unto themselves, but that they were all for the purpose of gaining rest for my soul (Mt 11:29).

No , as far as I am aware , I have been twice born . Once by lust ..by the will of man and the second time by love by the will of God . ( And it was not because I was looking for Him nor is it because I had anything to offer . )
The second birth is ongoing and involves unlearning what society has taught me . It is much like the children of Israel going through a desert and unlearning all of the things they picked up from 400 years in Egypt. It is a battle ....like remaining an ice cube in boiling water . Walking out of sync to very loud music ..but I do it ( by his grace ) for the sake of love of who our God is and for the love of others .
The good news is love can be taught . Jesus said to go make disciples teaching them to observe all that he commanded . This of course went off course in the main long ago when religion became nationalized and politicized . There was never anything called Christendom ...a christian nation , etc. These are all concepts of man and tend to inflate , deceive and contradict . It will only lead to hating our enemies and self-righteousness . I can't help but notice that many atheist have a since of superiority ...a higher understanding ...better education , etc. It is the same smugness and a form of self-righteousness that many despise from their religious counterparts . I may be walking in it now unbeknownst to me ...I wish you were closer by for you would detect it on me before I would in all probability .

Thank you for sharing.

It hit me one day ( after my initial awakening ) when I remember from Isaiah it saying " For thus says the high and lofty one who inhabits eternity , whose name is Holy . I dwell in the high and holy place with him ALSO that is of a contrite and humble spirit , to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the contrite . " ( Isaiah 57:15 ) And when I put that with "Learn of me for I am lowly of heart and meek of spirit " , it dawned on me why God gives grace to the humble ...because God Himself is humble .
Some of the things Christ was tempted with but did not fall to were ...ambition ...for the "I AM " dwelt in Him ...he was so he did not have to be anything . And he was not competitive for he had no competition .
Do you remember the temptations in the desert ? ...IF you are the Son of God ...do XYZ ....satan kept trying to get Jesus to prove who He was ...one who is has nothing to prove ...they may demonstrate but not prove . Anyway , just many of the reasons I love our Lord .

I would say that there is everything to prove, for the seeker that is presented with a vast array of religious options.

 

[NeedyFollower]

There is no further purpose for "divine love", "hope", "love and forgiveness", "be like God", "reconciliation", "innocence regained"? When I was a Christian, it was my understanding that these things were not ends unto themselves, but that they were all for the purpose of gaining rest for my soul (Mt 11:29).

Thank you for sharing.

I would say that there is everything to prove, for the seeker that is presented with a vast array of religious options.

There is no further purpose for "divine love", "hope", "love and forgiveness", "be like God", "reconciliation", "innocence regained"? When I was a Christian, it was my understanding that these things were not ends unto themselves, but that they were all for the purpose of gaining rest for my soul (Mt 11:29).

Well yes rest for the soul is a part of the purpose . Jesus said that his sheep go in and out and find pasture . The problem I encounter is a type of Christianity that is not as full as I believe the early church where everyone gave all to each other . I think you and I grew up in what is described in 2nd Timothy Chapter 3 . Not unlike some forms of Buddism ( as I slightly understand it ) there is a seeking .Jesus said seek to enter into His rest and Paul said that he did not count himself to have obtained but he runs after ..

I would say that there is everything to prove, for the seeker that is presented with a vast array of religious options.

Well there is a subtle difference in proving and demonstration ..it has to do with motive . Jesus demonstrated and it was verified by the Father by the resurrection .

 

[ananda]

Well yes rest for the soul is a part of the purpose . Jesus said that his sheep go in and out and find pasture . The problem I encounter is a type of Christianity that is not as full as I believe the early church where everyone gave all to each other . I think you and I grew up in what is described in 2nd Timothy Chapter 3 . Not unlike some forms of Buddism ( as I slightly understand it ) there is a seeking .Jesus said seek to enter into His rest and Paul said that he did not count himself to have obtained but he runs after ..

If there was no rest promised, I doubt most would even consider Christianity. Nevertheless, as a Buddhist, I aim directly at that goal (permanent rest, nibbana) observable through my efforts, rather than by faith through an invisible deity that may or may not exist.

Well there is a subtle difference in proving and demonstration ..it has to do with motive . Jesus demonstrated and it was verified by the Father by the resurrection .

Have you verified the resurrection for yourself?

 

[NeedyFollower]

If there was no rest promised, I doubt most would even consider Christianity. Nevertheless, as a Buddhist, I aim directly at that goal (permanent rest, nibbana) observable through my efforts, rather than by faith through an invisible deity that may or may not exist.

If there was no rest promised, I doubt most would even consider Christianity. Nevertheless, as a Buddhist, I aim directly at that goal (permanent rest, nibbana) observable through my efforts, rather than by faith through an invisible deity that may or may not exist.

Who decides if you obtain the highest level or have to be reborn ? Who is the decider ? I believe the invisible deity made himself known in so many ways so that no one will be able to claim ignorance but we can claim to not want to know him nor be accountable . I do not understand why people woud not want to know him but of course I did not until I did .

Have you verified the resurrection for yourself?

Have you verified the resurrection for yourself?

Yes ...better and more reliable evidence than any other supernatural event that I am aware of . I have read the writings of the some of the early detractors from Rome ...it was offensive to those in position in Rome that the "low lifes " of Rome thought they now had value in the sight of God through their faith in His Son Jesus . I believe , like the very early christians that everyone has value . My view is resurrected . I do love God very much whereas before I only believed He existed . But I do not know if anyone can know Him except through and by His Son ... And the best Father ever .

 

[ananda]

Yes ...better and more reliable evidence than any other supernatural event that I am aware of . I have read the writings of the some of the early detractors from Rome ...it was offensive to those in position in Rome that the "low lifes " of Rome thought they now had value in the sight of God through their faith in His Son Jesus . I believe , like the very early christians that everyone has value . My view is resurrected . I do love God very much whereas before I only believed He existed . But I do not know if anyone can know Him except through and by His Son ... And the best Father ever .

How did you verify the resurrection for yourself & what did you witness?

 

[NeedyFollower]

How did you verify the resurrection for yourself & what did you witness?

Jesus told Nicodemus , Are you a master of Israel and know you not that a man must be born again ? So I witnessed a new understanding when through prayer I received an answer to a question I did not ask but it was true . I was seeking a resolution ...a remedy to a multitude of issues in my life . The non politically correct term is sin ...I was asking to love someone more than I did . And the answer came as clear as a bell that I did not love that person , I loved myself . That was NOT what I was asking ...I just wanted things fixed but I had to hear the truth . I was trying to address the symptoms of the problem . The problem was self-love . I recall that Jesus said that He was the Way , The Truth and the Life .

Now if I had been a holy man , a righteous man , etc. It would make perfect sense that God would hear my prayer ..but for Him to speak truth to a wicked man . That was love and mercy beyond anything I personally deserved . Then I began to understand that He seeks the lost but then we seek Him .

Jesus told Peter , When you are converted , strengthen your brethren . Peter was a disciple prior to being converted or born again . I personally believe Peter was converted after he denied Christ three times and Jesus looked at Peter with compassion and forgiveness . It broke Peter's heart . God will not despise a broken and contrite heart . Prior to then Peter was pretty sure of himself and a bit rash but real . Read the gospel of Mark some time through the eyes of Peter . It was believed that Peter was illiterate and the gospel of Mark is Peter's telling to Mark . I believe this to be true when I read towards the end that Peter has the messengers saying " Go tell the disciples AND Peter that I am going before you to Galilee ." Now this is only speculation on my part but I think Peter was so humbled that he would not call himself a disciple . I wept when I read that .

Now if you are asking how did I verify the resurrection of Jesus for myself , there are too many historical records attesting to it being a common understanding among a group of persecuted followers . If it was a sham ...it had to be a sham in conjunction with the jewish non-believers . From Deuteronomy , The Psalms , Genesis ( The story of Joseph and Pharaoh is a type .) Also , the whole Bible is a prophecy in a way pointing to the Messiah . For example , Moses brought the Israelite s out of Egypt and Up to the Promised land but it was left to Joshua to take the children in . Jesus is the greek of Joshua . ( Please forgive me for you may already know this but hebrew names had meanings . Joshua means God is Salvation . )
The law came through Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ . Lastly , Jesus himself , being also a prophet , was a foreshadow of The Creation , the maturing , the tribulation and anguish , the death and then the Resurrection of the new heavens and the new earth . Jesus calls it the regeneration .

 

[ananda]

Jesus told Nicodemus , Are you a master of Israel and know you not that a man must be born again ? So I witnessed a new understanding when through prayer I received an answer to a question I did not ask but it was true . I was seeking a resolution ...a remedy to a multitude of issues in my life . The non politically correct term is sin ...I was asking to love someone more than I did . And the answer came as clear as a bell that I did not love that person , I loved myself . That was NOT what I was asking ...I just wanted things fixed but I had to hear the truth . I was trying to address the symptoms of the problem . The problem was self-love . I recall that Jesus said that He was the Way , The Truth and the Life .

Now if I had been a holy man , a righteous man , etc. It would make perfect sense that God would hear my prayer ..but for Him to speak truth to a wicked man . That was love and mercy beyond anything I personally deserved . Then I began to understand that He seeks the lost but then we seek Him .

Jesus told Peter , When you are converted , strengthen your brethren . Peter was a disciple prior to being converted or born again . I personally believe Peter was converted after he denied Christ three times and Jesus looked at Peter with compassion and forgiveness . It broke Peter's heart . God will not despise a broken and contrite heart . Prior to then Peter was pretty sure of himself and a bit rash but real . Read the gospel of Mark some time through the eyes of Peter . It was believed that Peter was illiterate and the gospel of Mark is Peter's telling to Mark . I believe this to be true when I read towards the end that Peter has the messengers saying " Go tell the disciples AND Peter that I am going before you to Galilee ." Now this is only speculation on my part but I think Peter was so humbled that he would not call himself a disciple . I wept when I read that .

Now if you are asking how did I verify the resurrection of Jesus for myself , there are too many historical records attesting to it being a common understanding among a group of persecuted followers . If it was a sham ...it had to be a sham in conjunction with the jewish non-believers . From Deuteronomy , The Psalms , Genesis ( The story of Joseph and Pharaoh is a type .) Also , the whole Bible is a prophecy in a way pointing to the Messiah . For example , Moses brought the Israelite s out of Egypt and Up to the Promised land but it was left to Joshua to take the children in . Jesus is the greek of Joshua . ( Please forgive me for you may already know this but hebrew names had meanings . Joshua means God is Salvation . )
The law came through Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ . Lastly , Jesus himself , being also a prophet , was a foreshadow of The Creation , the maturing , the tribulation and anguish , the death and then the Resurrection of the new heavens and the new earth . Jesus calls it the regeneration .

Thanks for sharing. It sounds to me that you have faith in certain alleged historical records which in turn attests to the resurrection, but didn't verify the resurrection for yourself.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Thanks for sharing. It sounds to me that you have faith in certain alleged historical records which in turn attests to the resurrection, but didn't verify the resurrection for yourself.

It is not lost on me that had I grown up in a "christian " country and setting , that I would have potentially believed some of the stories in which I was introduced . I mean when I was very young I absolutely believed in Santa Claus . I am sure that people in other countries absolutely believe on what they have been introduced into . Many believe that the USA is a Christian nation . That G Washington was a hero , and that it was act of God that allowed the rebels to succeed against England . Personally , I don't see any difference in the rise of the USA and any country that obtains a level of prosperity . I do not see it as an act of God per se ...at least not for the reasons that many think . I have done my own research as I have in various religions .
Do you know the difference between faith and belief ? Very close but not synonyms . Do I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ ? Yes . Do I have faith in the resurrection ? Of course . In a God centered belief , it makes perfect sense as a demonstration of extreme love ( agape') and sacrifice being synonyms . Jesus had enough faith to die willingly and to die for the ungodly for the JOY that was before Him .

He did not search for truth , died young but had more children than any human being . The record in both the old testament and new testament speak to his being rejected . Ezekiel speaks to a time when God will speak to us face to face . ( Most credible atheist historians believe in the historical Jesus. )
Was Buddha a real person ? No one alive knows for sure but we are fairly certain that he was . Now if I had seen the resurrection , that would be knowledge which is different than faith . But I do not believe it was a fairy tale . And the sayings of Jesus contain too much uncomfortable truth . It is God centered and not man centered .

Lastly , the prophecies were given ( not just the prophecies of Jesus ) but of the demise of mature , wise and sober minded men within the body of believers . From Isaiah " And I will give children to be their princes and babes shall rule over them . Each man will be against his neighbor . The child shall behave insolently against the elder . The base against the honorable . " ... This is as it is today in many ways though many people can not discern this happening . From Micah 3:11 . The heads judge for reward and the priest thereof teach for hire and the prophets divine for money and yet will they lean against the Lord and say , Is not the Lord amongst us ..no evil shall befall us .
Does Buddhism predict a future which tells of it's own falling away as does Christianity before the end ? Judism also is honest in the wickedness of it's own people and God's judgment . Not a happily ever after but that does not keep it from being true . Love truth brother ...even if it is not pleasant it still may be true . Ask God for wisdom for he is known as the Ancient of Days . Older than man and wiser than any human . Wisdom is needed .

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks for sharing. It sounds to me that you have faith in certain alleged historical records which in turn attests to the resurrection, but didn't verify the resurrection for yourself.

I don't think its reasonable to demand absolute certainty for historical events for them to be said to be justified true beliefs.

The consensus of modern historians is that Jesus followers believed he was raised from the dead. Beyond that, about the exact nature of the resurrection, there is no consensus.

FWIW, HH the Dalai Lama believes in the resurrection of Jesus to some extent, though he does not interpret it through a Christian grid, because similar things are said to happen in Tibet. An especially realized person's body will begin to glow and shrink or disappear over a few period of days at their time of death, this is a phenomenon called "the Rainbow Body". Fr. Francis Tiso has a youtube video talking about research he did in Tibet on the phenomenon.

Fr. Tiso's research came about because Br. David Stendahl-Rast was seeking to interact with biblical scholars who doubted the validity of the traditional story of Jesus' resurrection, and also intrigued by the apparent image on the Shroud of Turin, which seems to be created by light. He wanted evidence that a human body could disappear by such means, and an acquaintance of a friend was Tibetan and knew of stories of bodies disappearing in Tibet. So Br. David got in touch with Fr. Tiso, who is a scholar of Tibetan culture, and asked him to research the phenomenon.

The Jewish theologian and philosopher Pinchas Lapide of Jerusalem University also accepted the story of Jesus' resurrection, which he understood within a Jewish worldview.

 

[ananda]

It is not lost on me that had I grown up in a "christian " country and setting , that I would have potentially believed some of the stories in which I was introduced . I mean when I was very young I absolutely believed in Santa Claus . I am sure that people in other countries absolutely believe on what they have been introduced into . Many believe that the USA is a Christian nation . That G Washington was a hero , and that it was act of God that allowed the rebels to succeed against England . Personally , I don't see any difference in the rise of the USA and any country that obtains a level of prosperity . I do not see it as an act of God per se ...at least not for the reasons that many think . I have done my own research as I have in various religions .
Do you know the difference between faith and belief ? Very close but not synonyms . Do I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ ? Yes . Do I have faith in the resurrection ? Of course . In a God centered belief , it makes perfect sense as a demonstration of extreme love ( agape') and sacrifice being synonyms . Jesus had enough faith to die willingly and to die for the ungodly for the JOY that was before Him .

He did not search for truth , died young but had more children than any human being . The record in both the old testament and new testament speak to his being rejected . Ezekiel speaks to a time when God will speak to us face to face . ( Most credible atheist historians believe in the historical Jesus. )
Was Buddha a real person ? No one alive knows for sure but we are fairly certain that he was . Now if I had seen the resurrection , that would be knowledge which is different than faith . But I do not believe it was a fairy tale . And the sayings of Jesus contain too much uncomfortable truth . It is God centered and not man centered .

Lastly , the prophecies were given ( not just the prophecies of Jesus ) but of the demise of mature , wise and sober minded men within the body of believers . From Isaiah " And I will give children to be their princes and babes shall rule over them . Each man will be against his neighbor . The child shall behave insolently against the elder . The base against the honorable . " ... This is as it is today in many ways though many people can not discern this happening . From Micah 3:11 . The heads judge for reward and the priest thereof teach for hire and the prophets divine for money and yet will they lean against the Lord and say , Is not the Lord amongst us ..no evil shall befall us .
Does Buddhism predict a future which tells of it's own falling away as does Christianity before the end ? Judism also is honest in the wickedness of it's own people and God's judgment . Not a happily ever after but that does not keep it from being true . Love truth brother ...even if it is not pleasant it still may be true . Ask God for wisdom for he is known as the Ancient of Days . Older than man and wiser than any human . Wisdom is needed .

Indeed, I love truth, which is why I embraced Buddhism. Love, however, is not our summum bonum, but rather wisdom and the peace of parinibbana.

For Buddhists like myself - unlike in mainstream Christianity - our belief is not grounded in faith in the person of the Buddha or in facts about his life. We are unable to verify any of those things for ourselves. Instead, that belief is grounded in the message attributed to the Buddha, and it is that message that we can verify for ourselves.

Also, there are texts that speak of the decay of Buddhist teachings, but that is natural of any system in samsaric existence: any thing conditioned that is subject to birth is also subject to decay. The truths themselves taught in Buddhism are unconditioned, and not subject to decay.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Indeed, I love truth, which is why I embraced Buddhism. Love, however, is not our summum bonum, but rather wisdom and the peace of parinibbana.

For Buddhists like myself - unlike in mainstream Christianity - our belief is not grounded in faith in the person of the Buddha or in facts about his life. We are unable to verify any of those things for ourselves. Instead, that belief is grounded in the message attributed to the Buddha, and it is that message that we can verify for ourselves.

Also, there are texts that speak of the decay of Buddhist teachings, but that is natural of any system in samsaric existence: any thing conditioned that is subject to birth is also subject to decay. The truths themselves taught in Buddhism are unconditioned, and not subject to decay.

Also, there are texts that speak of the decay of Buddhist teachings, but that is natural of any system in samsaric existence: any thing conditioned that is subject to birth is also subject to decay. The truths themselves taught in Buddhism are unconditioned, and not subject to decay.

For me anyway , eternity is the only thing not subject to decay . And there is a love which derives from outside of self , that is eternal . That love came from somewhere as a gift , not from myself . There is an ancient wisdom which is older than man and higher than man and testifies of itself to all who will hear . This ancient of days has not left itself without witness . It demonstrated itself to man by denying itself and taking on human frailties in order to demonstrate His "Is-ness " and to even overcome death and unknowning . This is eternal so that we may know both the Son and the Father . Being a father in the earthly sense , I do not want my children to have nirvana . I want them to have communion with me . To suffer with me ( for then I know they care ) . To work with me . ( For then I know they are turned ( repented ) in the right direction ..That is the reason ( logos ) . That is the purpose . Without reason and purpose , everything is vain ( no meaning ) philosophy . There is a goal and the goal is the Father's will . I am to submit my will to the Father's will and His will is life .
He hath shown thee o man what is good and what does the Lord require of thee but to do justly , to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God. ( Micha 6:8 ) ... Can two walk together unless they be agreed ? ( Amos 3:3) I must walk with God for He is God and I am not . And He did not suffer decay .
I do not want my children following philosopher's of death for I am jealous of their well being .
From Jeremiah 23:10 : For the land is full of adulterers ; for because of swearing ( or the curse ) the land morns ; the pleasant places of the wilderness is dried up, and their course ( direction ) is evil and their force ( spirit ) is not right . God has promised eternal life . Shall we follow someone who has promised less so is unable to give more ? And this will and testament has been signed by His Word and God cannot lie .

 

[ananda]

For me anyway , eternity is the only thing not subject to decay . And there is a love which derives from outside of self , that is eternal . That love came from somewhere as a gift , not from myself . There is an ancient wisdom which is older than man and higher than man and testifies of itself to all who will hear . This ancient of days has not left itself without witness . It demonstrated itself to man by denying itself and taking on human frailties in order to demonstrate His "Is-ness " and to even overcome death and unknowning . This is eternal so that we may know both the Son and the Father . Being a father in the earthly sense , I do not want my children to have nirvana . I want them to have communion with me . To suffer with me ( for then I know they care ) . To work with me . ( For then I know they are turned ( repented ) in the right direction ..That is the reason ( logos ) . That is the purpose . Without reason and purpose , everything is vain ( no meaning ) philosophy . There is a goal and the goal is the Father's will . I am to submit my will to the Father's will and His will is life .
He hath shown thee o man what is good and what does the Lord require of thee but to do justly , to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God. ( Micha 6:8 ) ... Can two walk together unless they be agreed ? ( Amos 3:3) I must walk with God for He is God and I am not . And He did not suffer decay .
I do not want my children following philosopher's of death for I am jealous of their well being .
From Jeremiah 23:10 : For the land is full of adulterers ; for because of swearing ( or the curse ) the land morns ; the pleasant places of the wilderness is dried up, and their course ( direction ) is evil and their force ( spirit ) is not right . God has promised eternal life . Shall we follow someone who has promised less so is unable to give more ? And this will and testament has been signed by His Word and God cannot lie .

What appeals to you about eternal life?

 

[NeedyFollower]

What appeals to you about eternal life?

As odd as this sounds ..I do not look forward to a "mansion in the sky" , streets of gold , etc . I am not really concerned with eternity per se . I do vaguely see with the eyes of my heart a purity which is beyond human understanding . ( It was written , we see through a glass darkly . ) So nothing really but I greatly desire to see our heavenly Father and Jesus my Lord . I hope I can be given a new and better form of speech in which to thank Him . Some of the writings say that eye has not seen nor ear has heard what God has prepared for those who love Him . But even that is not my objective nor my concern . I do not await to see loved ones in eternity , etc. Maybe unfettered love .
Just speculation but I think we are severely limited in our earthly bodies . I wonder what the color blue sounds like . Or what does 5 part harmony look like ? It says in Isaiah 14:7-8 that after the enemy of eternity has been laid low , the trees clap their hands and say " Since you have been laid low , no man comes against us with an ax. "
So some of the things regarding eternal life which appeal to my current senses are pure speculation for I know that I can not see clearly , but it is someone that appeals to me most . Regarding the "speculation" that there are notes , harmonies , waves , etc that we are currently unable to enjoy , it came to me when I heard an a Capella rendition of " I Need Thee Every Hour " by Sam Robson . I am not making any claims for the performer , nor the writer . I think all things work together for good to those who love the Lord . Have you ever heard it ? I think it stunning .

 

[ananda]

As odd as this sounds ..I do not look forward to a "mansion in the sky" , streets of gold , etc . I am not really concerned with eternity per se . I do vaguely see with the eyes of my heart a purity which is beyond human understanding . ( It was written , we see through a glass darkly . ) So nothing really but I greatly desire to see our heavenly Father and Jesus my Lord . I hope I can be given a new and better form of speech in which to thank Him . Some of the writings say that eye has not seen nor ear has heard what God has prepared for those who love Him . But even that is not my objective nor my concern . I do not await to see loved ones in eternity , etc. Maybe unfettered love .
Just speculation but I think we are severely limited in our earthly bodies . I wonder what the color blue sounds like . Or what does 5 part harmony look like ? It says in Isaiah 14:7-8 that after the enemy of eternity has been laid low , the trees clap their hands and say " Since you have been laid low , no man comes against us with an ax. "
So some of the things regarding eternal life which appeal to my current senses are pure speculation for I know that I can not see clearly , but it is someone that appeals to me most . Regarding the "speculation" that there are notes , harmonies , waves , etc that we are currently unable to enjoy , it came to me when I heard an a Capella rendition of " I Need Thee Every Hour " by Sam Robson . I am not making any claims for the performer , nor the writer . I think all things work together for good to those who love the Lord . Have you ever heard it ? I think it stunning .

I haven't heard the song, I'll have to look it up.

What's the appeal of seeing your heavenly father & lord? Or of better forms of speech, seeing loved ones, hearing blue, or seeing 5 part harmonies? Will that sustain you through eternity?

 

[NeedyFollower]

I haven't heard the song, I'll have to look it up.

What's the appeal of seeing your heavenly father & lord? Or of better forms of speech, seeing loved ones, hearing blue, or seeing 5 part harmonies? Will that sustain you through eternity?

The appeal of seeing who I dearly love and who has demonstrated their love , is not comparable to any thing i am able to share. I would have to compare it to something with which we are both familiar. There are aspects of my faith with which I can share and are knowable ..for example , we are taught to be followers of God as dear children ...not children mind you but dear children . Have you ever been around very meek children ...a bit shy and unassuming and still innocent ? I have seen this more in some of the amish communities since many of them have not been influenced by culture since they do not have TV , Radio , nor movies . This sadly is changing as I understand it ( I have not been in a community in a while to see for myself. )
Better forms of speech is from a recognition that my current speech is not equal to the task .
Seeing loved ones is not part of my longing although my hope is for everyone ...not just family . The rest of the things regarding sight and sounds are mere speculation which probably resonated with me and maybe were for me , than for you . They are not the reason . The reason is THE REASON . To abide with the creator of all things who is lowly and meek . A gentle shepherd but yet a King .
It is very creative to take things like notes on a scale and create music . Or to invent instruments or invent anything . But every creation is a combination of things which already existed . To create anything from nothing is beyond human .
So maybe a more personal admiration is another reason. Do you leave a cultural christianity which consisted of prayer books , recitations , buildings , pulpits , alters, hymn singing and such ? It is difficult to love unless one has been loved and difficult to forgive until one has been forgiven . I love God because He first loved me . I do not believe in coincidence which maybe is a part of faith . I do not of course understand much but believe that I see things differently ..unless I am deceived or delusional. I do not believe that I am although by definition , delusional people of course do not think they are . I do think Jesus got it right . I think he was like a note in perfect pitch sent to a people who were sharp or flat ...consequently , He sounded out of tune but in reality , everyone else was . They were unable to change their tune because they did not have enough humility and received honor from the people . Jesus could not change His tune without making himself a liar which he could not do . He could not become "unlove" .

 

[ananda]

The appeal of seeing who I dearly love and who has demonstrated their love , is not comparable to any thing i am able to share. I would have to compare it to something with which we are both familiar. There are aspects of my faith with which I can share and are knowable ..for example , we are taught to be followers of God as dear children ...not children mind you but dear children . Have you ever been around very meek children ...a bit shy and unassuming and still innocent ? I have seen this more in some of the amish communities since many of them have not been influenced by culture since they do not have TV , Radio , nor movies . This sadly is changing as I understand it ( I have not been in a community in a while to see for myself. )
Better forms of speech is from a recognition that my current speech is not equal to the task .
Seeing loved ones is not part of my longing although my hope is for everyone ...not just family . The rest of the things regarding sight and sounds are mere speculation which probably resonated with me and maybe were for me , than for you . They are not the reason . The reason is THE REASON . To abide with the creator of all things who is lowly and meek . A gentle shepherd but yet a King .
It is very creative to take things like notes on a scale and create music . Or to invent instruments or invent anything . But every creation is a combination of things which already existed . To create anything from nothing is beyond human .
So maybe a more personal admiration is another reason. Do you leave a cultural christianity which consisted of prayer books , recitations , buildings , pulpits , alters, hymn singing and such ? It is difficult to love unless one has been loved and difficult to forgive until one has been forgiven . I love God because He first loved me . I do not believe in coincidence which maybe is a part of faith . I do not of course understand much but believe that I see things differently ..unless I am deceived or delusional. I do not believe that I am although by definition , delusional people of course do not think they are . I do think Jesus got it right . I think he was like a note in perfect pitch sent to a people who were sharp or flat ...consequently , He sounded out of tune but in reality , everyone else was . They were unable to change their tune because they did not have enough humility and received honor from the people . Jesus could not change His tune without making himself a liar which he could not do . He could not become "unlove" .

Is there an appeal of existing for an eternity in heaven, with the knowledge that some of your loved ones may be in hell or the lake of fire?

 

[NeedyFollower]

Is there an appeal of existing for an eternity in heaven, with the knowledge that some of your loved ones may be in hell or the lake of fire?

I have people who I love who have departed . I am not sure of their eternal destiny and am grieved for them as indeed I must be . ( There is a parable told regarding the rich man and Lazarus . At one point Abraham tells the rich man ," besides all that , between us and you there is a great chasm fixed so that they who would want to pass from us to you can not , neither can they pass to us from hence. " So apparently there are those who would pass to the place of the rich man . There is a practicality to some of Jesus' hard sayings ...such as let the dead bury the dead but go ye and preach the gospel .
I trust God and understand that I am unable to do anything about the past but while there is life , there is hope . With that said , God is in control of eternity, both past and present . I must let Him be God and rest in that.... for He is God whether I allow Him to be or not . I do believe that with God , all things are possible as indeed they are . A universe ..an atom ....protons ..electrons ...a tree ..a man . Who am I being so insignificant to question God and put Him on trial ? ( That was the ploy of O.J. Simpsons lawyers ...putting the law on trial verses establishing truth . )
Paul had a great compassion for the living ..in one place he said , " For many walk , of whom I have told you often and now tell you weeping , they are the enemies of the cross of Christ , whose end is destruction ,whose god is their belly , whose glory is their shame, who mind earthly things . He said their end is destruction but Paul was one who seemed to desire eternal life for all .
Paul was like a soul surgeon saving all he could and inspiring others to do the same . For him it was more urgent than life and death.
So as to the appeal of eternity, I will let heaven and eternity take care of itself ...I am more concerned with the living to make sure they are not walking around dead . I desire they have a true and living hope ..not a theology. Hard things do not keep them from being true things nor must I agree with things for them to be true .
I believe there are things shaping up in the world to a certain forecasted condition . Much deception and greed with no real chance of a turning back for the masses . But we can make a difference ( through Christ ) one at a time if we will . If we will not , we can not . It is that simple . For love's sake. I believe the great falling away has been in progress for the last two thousand years but the depth of delusion has fallen off a cliff fairly rapidly . Mass media combined with a highly educated ( and easily distracted and entertained population ) has given man a taste for fantasy and the inability to hear . Denial is our comfort.

 

[ananda]

I have people who I love who have departed . I am not sure of their eternal destiny and am grieved for them as indeed I must be . ( There is a parable told regarding the rich man and Lazarus . At one point Abraham tells the rich man ," besides all that , between us and you there is a great chasm fixed so that they who would want to pass from us to you can not , neither can they pass to us from hence. " So apparently there are those who would pass to the place of the rich man . There is a practicality to some of Jesus' hard sayings ...such as let the dead bury the dead but go ye and preach the gospel .
I trust God and understand that I am unable to do anything about the past but while there is life , there is hope . With that said , God is in control of eternity, both past and present . I must let Him be God and rest in that.... for He is God whether I allow Him to be or not . I do believe that with God , all things are possible as indeed they are . A universe ..an atom ....protons ..electrons ...a tree ..a man . Who am I being so insignificant to question God and put Him on trial ? ( That was the ploy of O.J. Simpsons lawyers ...putting the law on trial verses establishing truth . )
Paul had a great compassion for the living ..in one place he said , " For many walk , of whom I have told you often and now tell you weeping , they are the enemies of the cross of Christ , whose end is destruction ,whose god is their belly , whose glory is their shame, who mind earthly things . He said their end is destruction but Paul was one who seemed to desire eternal life for all .
Paul was like a soul surgeon saving all he could and inspiring others to do the same . For him it was more urgent than life and death.
So as to the appeal of eternity, I will let heaven and eternity take care of itself ...I am more concerned with the living to make sure they are not walking around dead . I desire they have a true and living hope ..not a theology. Hard things do not keep them from being true things nor must I agree with things for them to be true .
I believe there are things shaping up in the world to a certain forecasted condition . Much deception and greed with no real chance of a turning back for the masses . But we can make a difference ( through Christ ) one at a time if we will . If we will not , we can not . It is that simple . For love's sake. I believe the great falling away has been in progress for the last two thousand years but the depth of delusion has fallen off a cliff fairly rapidly . Mass media combined with a highly educated ( and easily distracted and entertained population ) has given man a taste for fantasy and the inability to hear . Denial is our comfort.

Would you also say "Who am I being so insignificant to question Allah and put him on trial?"

Like it or not, all of us who adhere to some religion or religious philosophy have put various deities on trial, and you (and I) have rejected the vast majority of them.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Would you also say "Who am I being so insignificant to question Allah and put him on trial?"

Like it or not, all of us who adhere to some religion or religious philosophy have put various deities on trial, and you (and I) have rejected the vast majority of them.

Well as far as I know , Allah is just the Arabic for the english word of God . Hebrew has YHWH . And as you know , words are just a language to convey meanings , i.e. " In the beginning was the Word ,etc. and when Abraham asked God , Who shall I say sent me , the reply ( as I understand that was ) given was ...tell them "I AM " sent you . So who is God ? He is . And we are to abide in Him .
I think it would be fair to ask questions . To seek . To not understand . This is what a child does and in that sense , I personally think it is ok but that is what I believe . I question many things which in my belief system is considered orthodox but I don't believe there is a foundation for many of them ...either that or others see things which I do not . Does that mean I question God or put Him on trial ? No . There are things which apparently happened with God's consent or even direction ( such as the flood , Sodom and Gomorrah , the destruction of Jericho , ) etc. If these things had not happened , it may be that you and I would not be alive ...evil possibly would have overtaken the world long before now . ( Although it is getting pretty close when I hear some of the hate coming out of people's mouths daily .) The best i can do is " I don't understand . " And since I do not , I think it a fair answer .

 

[ananda]

Well as far as I know , Allah is just the Arabic for the english word of God . Hebrew has YHWH . And as you know , words are just a language to convey meanings , i.e. " In the beginning was the Word ,etc. and when Abraham asked God , Who shall I say sent me , the reply ( as I understand that was ) given was ...tell them "I AM " sent you . So who is God ? He is . And we are to abide in Him .
I think it would be fair to ask questions . To seek . To not understand . This is what a child does and in that sense , I personally think it is ok but that is what I believe . I question many things which in my belief system is considered orthodox but I don't believe there is a foundation for many of them ...either that or others see things which I do not . Does that mean I question God or put Him on trial ? No . There are things which apparently happened with God's consent or even direction ( such as the flood , Sodom and Gomorrah , the destruction of Jericho , ) etc. If these things had not happened , it may be that you and I would not be alive ...evil possibly would have overtaken the world long before now . ( Although it is getting pretty close when I hear some of the hate coming out of people's mouths daily .) The best i can do is " I don't understand . " And since I do not , I think it a fair answer .

Do you question the Buddha or put Him on trial? Especially His claim that He is the Teacher of Gods?