the three woes

tailgator · Nov 29, 2024

Timtofly said:
You are changing the subject......

The wrath of God is the wrath of God, why do you ask?

That wrath is not the woe. How was the wrath of God considered a woe in the first 2 woes mentioned. Should you not be consistent and call all 3 woes the wrath of God?

JJust humans l8ving in mortal bodies is the wrath of God. God is preventing us from being sons of God, naturally born on the earth. That wrath was passed down from Adam and Eve. We are the ones destroying the earth, living in disobedience and death from birth.

Revelation 13, the whole chapter is the third woe.

God's wrath is great and not a woe at all. Instant death in the LOF, no more worries about living in disobedience on God's green earth.

PS
I haven't changed the subject.
I'm posting what is written about the third woe And this is how it is described.

Revelation 11
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Marilyn C · Nov 29, 2024

Douggg said:
Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the last three trumpets of the seven trumpets are tied to the three woes to the inhabiters of the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------

The first two woes are revealed what they will be in Revelation 9.
fifth angel sounds his trumpet, first woe - the flesh tormenting locust lasting 5 months.

sixth angel sounds his trumpet, second woe - a third of mankind killed by huge armies of 200,000,000 as they march toward Armageddon.
------------------------------------------------------

The third woe is revealed what it will be in Revelation 12:12-14. Which Revelation 8:13 and Revelation 12:12 are the only two places in the bible where the phrase "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" appears.

seventh angel sounds his trumpet, third woe - Satan's wrath knowing his time is short - a time, times, half time.
------------------------------------------------------

The three woes take place within the time/times/half time that Satan will have left when he and his angels are cast down to earth
from the second heaven, in Revelation 12:7-9.

Textually, in Revelation 9, the fifth angel sounds, then the sixth angel sounds, then in Revelation 11:15 the seventh angel sounds, revealing what the third woe will be in Revelation 12:12-14.

On the time line, the third woe begins, then the first woe takes place, then the second woe takes place, then the third woe ends when Jesus returns and Satan imprisoned. (see my chart below)

Third woe begins.................the first woe takes place ......................the second woe takes place.......... the third woe ends.
Third woe begins...............................................time/times/half time...................................................................the third woe ends.

Hi Douggg,

Rev. 12. gives the context of the second woe ending in the great earthquake. (Rev. 12: 13) That great earthquake is at the end of the trib. (Rev. 16: 18)

The third woe is the Lord coming in power and great glory with His angelic army. The 7th trumpet - `the kingdoms of the world...` (Rev. 12: 15 ff)

Marilyn C · Nov 29, 2024

Marilyn C · Nov 29, 2024

Notice the placement of the `Great Earthquake` in each section.

Timtofly · Nov 29, 2024

Douggg said:
Why does the discussion of the woes stop and Revelation 10 begin and Revelation 11:13 take place before there discussion of the woes begin again ?

It is because the third woe begins after the two witnesses have left this earth. And is Satan cast down to earth have great wrath, because he has but a short time left. And at some point in the time, times, half time, Satan opens the bottomless pit and the first woe takse place over the course of 5 months.

It is not because the third woe begins after the 2 witnesses left the earth.

There were 7 Thunders since the 2nd woe. The Thunders were after the last woe.

John is reminding us about the woes that happened before the Thunders, and now we are going to see a 3rd woe some time after the 7th Trumpet starts sounding.

The parenthetical of the 2 witnesses is about God’s planned and only 2 individuals who will represent God during the 3rd woe.

The Temple is already in existence. Jesus has been sitting on a throne in that Temple in judgment over the final destination of billions of souls.

The 3rd woe is when Satan takes over the throne and is in control for the same 42 months the 2 witnesses are on the earth. After the 42 months are over, Satan will then kill the 2 witnesses. 3.5 days later the 2 witness will resurrect, and ascend into heaven, later that day is the battle of Armageddon, and it is all over for Satan and those left on the earth.

Revelation 13 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet and the result when the 3rd woe is allowed by God.

The events of the 6th Trumpet and 2nd woe are all over, before the 7 Thunders are heard.

Douggg · Nov 29, 2024

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

Rev. 12. gives the context of the second woe ending in the great earthquake. (Rev. 12: 13) That great earthquake is at the end of the trib. (Rev. 16: 18)

The third woe is the Lord coming in power and great glory with His angelic army. The 7th trumpet - `the kingdoms of the world...` (Rev. 12: 15 ff)

Hi Marilyn,

I think you meant Revelation 11 and Revelation 11:13. The second woe will be a third of mankind killed by the huge armies of 200,000,000. I don't read anything in Revelation 11 prior to Revelation 11:13 (or anywhere in Revelation 11) about a third of mankind being killed.

Marilyn C · Nov 29, 2024

Douggg said:
Hi Marilyn,

I think you meant Revelation 11 and Revelation 11:13. The second woe will be a third of mankind killed by the huge armies of 200,000,000. I don't read anything in Revelation 11 prior to Revelation 11:13 (or anywhere in Revelation 11) about a third of mankind being killed.

Yes, Douggg, I did mean Rev. 11: 13 with the great earthquake. Thanks for the correction.

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

Douggg said:
@tailgator

Who is the star falling from heaven in Revelation 9:1 given the key to the bottom pit - falling to earth BEFORE - the flesh tormented locust are released ?

It is Satan cast down to earth, beginning the time, times, half time of the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

The first and second woes fit within that time, times, half time.

Nope, the 5th Seal is not Revelation 12:9

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Notice the last 8 words:

"and his angels were cast out with him"

They cannot be cast out at the 7th Trumpet, until they are released from the pit in the 5th Trumpet.

The 1st woe is that these angels are loosed from the pit. The 3rd woe contains these angels again, after they are cast out of heaven and have come back to earth, serving in the 42 months of Satan's mystery Babylon. The 2 witnesses will be working against them during the 3rd woe.

Revelation 10 to 19 deal with the 7th Trumpet and 3rd woe after the 7 Thunders have sounded. All 6 Trumpets and first 2 woes are over prior to the 1st Thunder.

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

tailgator said:
Since you say Christ does not come and raise the dead in revelation 11,then who do you preach raises the dead in revelation. 11:18 ?

the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints,

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

These are not physically dead people. These are those left on earth spiritually dead. The physical dead are not judged for another 1,000+ years. I thought you were pre-mill?

John is pointing out that the saved are all in heaven receiving their rewards. Those on earth are about to be consumed, all that are left. None of these dead live during the Millennium Kingdom.

tailgator · Nov 30, 2024

Timtofly said:
These are not physically dead people. These are those left on earth spiritually dead. The physical dead are not judged for another 1,000+ years. I thought you were pre-mill?

John is pointing out that the saved are all in heaven receiving their rewards. Those on earth are about to be consumed, all that are left. None of these dead live during the Millennium Kingdom.

No,the dead in Christ are not spiritually dead.
They are christians who have died and were buried and are raised from the dead at the coming of Christ.

It takes place at the last trumpet sound.The seventh Trump in revelation.

Revelation 10:7

But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

1 Corinth 15

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

Douggg said:
Why isn't Revelation 9 written as......

Revelation 9:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

22 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

23 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It was.

The verses in between were a parenthetical.

Including the point there were 7 other totally different events in that parenthetical.

The chronological narrative was placed on hold and then taken back up, just as you placed those verses.

That is why the 2 witnesses only happen after the 7th Trumpet. They are not part of the chronological narrative, but they can only appear after the 7th Trumpet.

John took a break from the Trumpet narrative, because God had 7 events between the last 2 Trumpets, just like the 3 woes were not 7 woes, but events attached to the last 3 Trumpets.

3 woe events seperate from the last 3 Trumpet events, and 7 Thunders between the last 2 Trumpets.

Each woe happens after the actual events of the Trumpets themselves.

the order of events:
1st Trumpet
2nd Trumpet
3rd Trumpet
4th Trumpet
5th Trumpet
1st woe
6th Trumpet
2nd woe
1st Thunder
2nd Thunder
3rd Thunder
4th Thunder
5th Thunder
6th Thunder
7th Thunder
7th Trumpet (should be the end, but....)

2 witnesses start

3rd woe (42 months) optional event

2 witnesses killed

1st vial (if there is a 3rd woe)
2nd vial
3rd vial
4th vial
5th vial
6th vial
7th vial

Even though we are not told what happens during the 7 Thunders, we should at least see they are an interruption to the narrative, which then picks back up with these words:

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Douggg · Nov 30, 2024

Timtofly said:
That is why the 2 witnesses only happen after the 7th Trumpet. They are not part of the chronological narrative, but they can only appear after the 7th Trumpet.

No, the two witnesses leave this earth before the seventh angel sounds his trumpet. Learn and remember these two formula's....

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256 1/2 days) = 2520 days (7 years)

1260 days + the undisclosed war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = 2520 days (7 years)

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

Douggg said:
Then who ?

Revelaton 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

I would agree that the event is God allowing Satan his army of angels.

However the 1st woe is what those angels do. It will be a really big deal for those living in the vicinity of this open door into sheol.

Then we know that God will allow 5 months until the soon to happen 7th Trumpet. But this 5 months covers the 6th Trumpet, and all 7 Thunders.

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

tailgator said:
You sound delusional

But if you seriously want to be cast into a lake of fire so you will have no more worries then you are probably well on your way there.

So you think living in sin without a choice is better?

Being eternally separated from God is the carnal fleshly mind, from birth. That desire is granted in the LOF.

Aaron112 · Nov 30, 2024

With unending extreme burning fire/ torture.
At least for some time.

tailgator · Nov 30, 2024

Timtofly said:
So you think living in sin without a choice is better?

Being eternally separated from God is the carnal fleshly mind, from birth. That desire is granted in the LOF.

If you want to be in the lake of fire.Have it your way.Say hello to the false prophet and beast .

Timtofly · Nov 30, 2024

tailgator said:
PS
I haven't changed the subject.
I'm posting what is written about the third woe And this is how it is described.

Revelation 11
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The 7th Trumpet is not the 3rd woe. The 7th Trumpet is declaring Jesus as the King over every nation.

You are delusional, yourself, if Jesus becoming the King of every nation is a woe.

Was the birth of Christ a woe?

Was the baptism of Christ a woe?

Was the redemptive work on the Cross a woe?

Why would Jesus becoming the King over all nations a woe? This is just another act Jesus has obeyed God in. Jesus accomplished His mission set about in Daniel 9. The 7th Trumpet has declared that mission a success. That is not a woe, but the ultimate end to the plan of redemption.

Timtofly · Dec 1, 2024

tailgator said:
No,the dead in Christ are not spiritually dead.
They are christians who have died and were buried and are raised from the dead at the coming of Christ.

It takes place at the last trumpet sound.The seventh Trump in revelation.

Revelation 10:7

But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

1 Corinth 15

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Paul wrote the last Trumpet in regards to the feast of Trumpets and the end gathering decades prior to John writing about 7 Trumpets. How can you call the 3rd woe the resurrection and the rapture? You are getting more twisted by the post.

You say that the 3rd woe is actually the resurrection and the rapture now?

This is not talking about dead saints. All the church was already in heaven at the 5th Seal, waiting for Jesus and the angels to gather the final harvest. The 7th Trumpet is declaring that work and the final harvest over. The church was already gathered. Only the spiritually dead, walking around on the the earth physically are left to judge and destroy.

The rapture happened back at the 5th Seal. Now you want to change the events around just like the other posters here. You are now claiming the 5th Seal is the 7th Trumpet, 3rd woe.

Timtofly · Dec 1, 2024

Douggg said:
No, the two witnesses leave this earth before the seventh angel sounds his trumpet. Learn and remember these two formula's....

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256 1/2 days) = 2520 days (7 years)

1260 days + the undisclosed war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = 2520 days (7 years)

You can't change John's order.

Especially to fit some time, times, and half of time into some 7 year formula.

John never mentions 7 years once in the entire book of Revelation.

Timtofly · Dec 1, 2024

tailgator said:
If you want to be in the lake of fire.Have it your way.Say hello to the false prophet and beast .

I never said, that, but go ahead, and twist people's points, and change the subject, yet again.

the three woes

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the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints,​

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the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints,