The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Carl Emerson]

Lets assume I am damned if I don't keep the Sabbath...

So this is getting real serious - hell awaits...

Right... what day is the Sabbath.

Quick research - the calendar has changed several times - which is the seventh day?

Do I go by the Georgian calendar, maybe the Hebrew Calendar, whoops we lost 10 days in 1752...

Then where am I on earth - If I get this wrong it's toast...

Worse if I am on the international space station trying to calculate the time zone.

I have a 1 in 7 chance of getting this right - talk about Russian roulette...

Does God really care about the day ???

Is 1 rest day in 7 near enough? (as long as it isn't Sunday) we know thats definitely wrong...

Wait the Romans had an 8 day week.

Maybe God only likes those with a degree in Maths and History...

Please pray for me...

 

[Hentenza]

No it is what is written. 3 questions were asked in verse 3, when shall these things be in regard to the destruction of the Temple. When shall be the sign of Jesus' coming and when shall be the end of the world. What follows is an answer to all three. The audience is any and all throughout the ages until He comes in His glory. How do we know?

Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said. And they are in the Greek also. So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels he expects His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath.

You are stuck in English grammar. Everything reads continuous because it is based on the original writings.The original writing did not contain chapter numbers or even verse numbers. It was written as a scroll. Chapter numbers and verse numbers were added later. lets look at the verses.

Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

This must have shaken the disciples to the core. Enough to go to where Jesus was going to ask Him to explain.

Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus is sitting on the mount of Olives looking directly at the temple and Jerusalem. This is Judea. And who lives in Judea? The Jews.

Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

These are future events. Your interpretation will vary based on your eschatology view.

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

‘There is an event here that will precipitate the Jews to flee. ”Who so readeth, let him understand” denotes how individual people will react to this reading.

Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So when the events of verse 15 happen those in Judea, where Jerusalem and the temple are located, will flee to the mountains. Only those in Judea are running to the mountains. No one else is running to the mountains. It has to be only those in Judea because the temple is in Judea and that is where the abomination of desolation will happen or whatever other laws pertain to the lawful keeping of the sabbath.

Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Huge sense of urgency here. Don’t stop to get anything, just run.

Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

It takes time to finish feeding the baby so they can’t just run right away. That is why it is described as a “woe”.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

“But pray” because if it happens during winter you could freeze or if it happens on a sabbath day then the law stipulates that you can’t travel more than a days walk away or even make a fire to keep warm if it’s winter.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rest is the remainder of the prophesy which again you can interpret based on your eschatological view. These verses do not support your argument.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK some satire there in my previous post, but really - if we gather to worship on one day or another does it really matter ?

 

[HIM]

You are stuck in English grammar. Everything reads continuous because it is based on the original writings.The original writing did not contain chapter numbers or even verse numbers. It was written as a scroll. Chapter numbers and verse numbers were added later. lets look at the verses.

It reads the same in the Greek. You might not want to go down this road my friend. The Greek is what led me to share this.

 

[Hentenza]

It reads the same in the Greek. You might not want to go down this road my friend. The Greek is what led me to share this.

And yet, your Greek did not prompt you to address my post. Every one has an interlinear these days.

 

[HIM]

And yet, your Greek did not prompt you to address my post. Every one has an interlinear these days.

You might want to look at it then.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus was not silent on this. He said the apostles were guiltless Mat12:7 because it was and is not a sin to eat on the Sabbath.

Jesus does say they are innocent (v7), but he does not comment on the act itself, but essentially calls them priests and gives them special authority that allows them to pick the heads of the grain. I'll let you draw your own conclusion if picking heads of grain is breaking the sabbath or not but that wasn't Christ's point nor was he defending the act "as-is" he instead was defending his authority. The Pharisees would not walk away, challenged that picking heads of grain are lawful, they would be challenged that Christ and his disciples have authority to do so.

Jesus condemned the apostles for breaking the commandments from the same unit and holds on to their traditions of man over God's commandments Mat15:1-14 He said this is worshipping Him in vain. Jesus did not hold the Pharisees at a higher standard than He did for Himself and for His disciples and than tell us that our righteousness must exceed theirs if we are to see heaven Mat5:19-20 by breaking the least of these same commandments, this would make Jesus a hypocrite, which He is not. Its simply a misunderstanding of the Scriptures and not understanding the Sabbath. Jesus nor His disciples ever broke God's Sabbath, they broke the Pharisees sabbath, that was all about control and punishment when the Sabbath is and always will be a delight Isa58:13-14ceasing from all work and labors, spending time focusing on God on His holy day. That doesn't mean God never gave us clear direction on the Sabbath and that we can't do evil on it Mark3:4 like Jesus said by profaning it.Neh13:17 Isa56:2

I get the call of Christ requires a standard higher than that which the Pharisees set. I know a different reference than what you quoted but I think still applies to Mat 15 which is Christ comments, "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." (Mat 19:24), setting again a high standard. The discples' response was in the next verse, "Who then can be saved?" These passages discussed here all deconstruct the status quo idea of lawful living. Mat 15 and 19 both inject an idea of a standard too high to accomplish which is the point. Since it is not our righteousness that saves us but Christ's righteousness, which accomplishes that standard. Christ accomplishes a work, and just as with creation, when the work was complete it ushers in a rest called holy and we can partake of that rest and be called holy just as the 7th day is. But we cannot accomplish the work (which is the point)

The apostles do not break law and I'm not trying to show that in Mat 12, picking the heads of grain was breaking the law. I really don't know, and I'm indifferent to it either way. What I do know is that it has nothing to do with the passage. The point of whether it was breaking the law was a point of the Pharisees not Christ. Christ instead makes claim that he and his disciples have the authority to do so. To do what? to break law? no, because if you have the authority to do it, then you're not breaking it. Was it the "as-is" act breaking law? I don't know and to me it doesn't matter because authority over the Sabbath takes precedence on if it was lawful so it's a moot point. Does the owner break law when they enter the employees' only door, being not an employee themselves? of course not, they own the place and they implicitly have access to the entire place. Jesus draws on the same points regarding duties of priests and regarding himself as Lord of the Sabbath.

It involves both. Exo20:8-11 Heb4,9,10,11 The commandments will always be like the way God gave them, Jesus came to magnify them Isa42:21 which means make larger, not smaller and the way He explained it, the heart is the issue, if the heart is changed all of God's commandments would be kept exactly how He said Mat5:18-30

What is the product of the magnification of Circumcision? it is a deemphasis of the physical and a new revelation on the spiritual found in Christ. What is the magnification of the sacrifice? again a deemphasis of the physical and a new revelation on the spiritual found in Christ. Do you see the pattern here? Circumcision and sacrifices were religious rites not "moral acts" (outside of obedience of course) so their physical acts are made obsolete to make way for their deeper meanings. So this comes down to how we view the 4th commandment. Is it moral or ceremonial? I already know your answer and I'm not going to argue it, but like-wise you must see the logic where another sees it ceremonially and thus wants to drop the ceremonial aspects to make way for a magnified spiritual meaning found only in Christ.

Even the undisputed moral pillars like do not steal, lie, murder, etc... these themselves, if done alone and not magnified, only give us a one-dimensional cause-and-effect type of morality where anyone can see that it's a good idea not to steal, lie or murder and if you keep these, you live a better life. This is universal in the sense that even without Christ, the products tend to be the same, which is broadly more positive outcomes, and even the Sabbath can be understood this way. If you keep a cultural Sabbath as an atheist, you will probably still reap a positive outcome in your life because the routine of the sabbath is a healthy addition to any lifestyle. But Christ magnifies law so law does not only point to an innate positive impact even without Christ, but instead in a greater system to show not just inclusion of Christ but that he is the crux of all law and without him none of it stands. Sabbath is nothing without Christ, even with the positive impact it may have on our physical routines. So it is only with Christ it takes on a magnified meaning and if we remove the physical aspect, for example are unable to take rest because of physical distress, the magnification still holds. So I may be tortured or face extreme physical distress but still have rest even on the Sabbath this is because the magnification of law does not depend on the physical requirement of law to be magnified and it is indeed made bigger. This is the same with Sabbath with circumcision, the sacrifice, and all of law... all nothing without Christ and when we boil it down, the impactful meaning is not the physical product, although they may have a positive outcome, but only that which can be found through Christ, even whenthe physical is removed.

 

[DamianWarS]

Do I go by the Georgian calendar, maybe the Hebrew Calendar, whoops we lost 10 days in 1752...

although I do not know how history has played out and there may be some calibration issues with the point of the first Sabbath but with Western adjustments to the calendar, the days of the week remains unchanged. Sept 2nd 1752 was a Wednesday, then there is a 10 day skip and Sept 14th was a Thursday so the days of the week continued their natural progression. On Wednesday night Sept 2nd, people went to sleep and woke up as expected on a Thursday morning, went to work and did their lives even if the date was 10 days ahead. if we count sabbath to sabbath it would have still been 7 days regardless of the date changes or adding on months, days or removing etc... it's no different with February, every 4 years we get an extra day but this has no bearing on how the days of the week continue.

to me the 7 days week has issue with it's origins. Since when traced back it seems to be a Babylonian invention around the same time of the Babylonian exile, which challenges the creation account as being it's inception and suggests the Hebrews adopted the 7 day week rather than it's origins going back to creation. To me the greatest point in favour of the Babylonians is the question of why the number 7? there no biblical reason why 7 is the magic number and why it wasn't 6 or 9... or better yet 10. There is a lot of significance with the number 7 in the bible, but it is all rooted in creation, yet creation has no answer for us why 7, and without explanation, it would seem arbitrary and would imply there is still another origin story to explain 7.

The Babylonians have it, 7 is the known number of celestial bodies of the ancient world (before telescopes were invented). These are basically the planets we can see with the naked eye but also include the moon the sun (does not include the earth) they are the Sun, the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. The days of the week were set at 7 to venerate these planets, each day for a separate planet which in English are still named this way today. (Sunday = Sun, Monday = Moon, Saturday = Saturday, etc...) Even the 7th day had a special veneration to not work but the Babylonians were motivated from fear and hiding themselves. This gives explaination for why the number 7, without the need to go deeper, where the creation account still asks why 7?
dd
This may be upsetting to many and they would outright reject it as it can be seen as challenging the authority of the scripture. But scripture is most certainly has a lot of woven metaphore, the entire law points to Christ for example. But it really depends on how we view these accounts of valuing literal details or spiritual truth and if the latter is more important, can the details take on shape to affirm the spiritual truth? I would say the 7 day system was adopted by the Hebrews and used as a tool to reveal a message far better. A system rooted in pagan motivation is uprooted to point to Christ, which is a biblically consistent theme and is a more noble goal. This is challenging for a lot to accept and requires a type of faith that does not need the inerrancy of the literal details but instead the inerrancy of truth. It also requires clear understanding of non-negotiables where we can say the creation account may have not been litteral God still is the one who created it. Or that this doesn't mean Christ wasn't a literal person or literally died and resurrected, etc. Drawing the line means a very critical version of faith to understand what details are non-negotiable and what may be negotiable. The question of why 7 is an example of critically challenging the text.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus does say they are innocent (v7), but he does not comment on the act itself,
but essentially calls them priests and gives them special authority that allows them to pick the heads of the grain. I'll let you draw your own conclusion if picking heads of grain is breaking the sabbath or not but that wasn't Christ's point nor was he defending the act "as-is" he instead was defending his authority. The Pharisees would not walk away, challenged that picking heads of grain are lawful, they would be challenged that Christ and his disciples have authority to do so.

Him saying they were innocent is commenting on the act, that they were not guilty of the accusation of the Pharisees because its not a sin to eat on the Sabbath, never was. No need to draw our own conclusions Jesus made is quite clear. Why we are told Pro3:5-6

I get the call of Christ requires a standard higher than that which the Pharisees set. I know a different reference than what you quoted but I think still applies to Mat 15 which is Christ comments, "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." (Mat 19:24), setting again a high standard. The discples' response was in the next verse, "Who then can be saved?" These passages discussed here all deconstruct the status quo idea of lawful living. Mat 15 and 19 both inject an idea of a standard too high to accomplish which is the point. Since it is not our righteousness that saves us but Christ's righteousness, which accomplishes that standard. Christ accomplishes a work, and just as with creation, when the work was complete it ushers in a rest called holy and we can partake of that rest and be called holy just as the 7th day is. But we cannot accomplish the work (which is the point)

I think you inserting the idea of keeping the Sabbath being too high of a standard to keep into these verses so therefore we do not have to keep, is a bad idea. The Sabbath can be kept, just like the other 9 if we love Jesus and cooperate with the Spirit. John14:15-18 The Sabbath wasn't mentioned in these verses, money was and Jesus said even rich people can be saved because....you missed the solution in the next verse and it wasn't Jesus lowering His standard or changing one of His commandment's



Mat 19: 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Money is not the issue, its the love of money that is, when we place it above God.

The apostles do not break law and I'm not trying to show that in Mat 12, picking the heads of grain was breaking the law. I really don't know, and I'm indifferent to it either way. What I do know is that it has nothing to do with the passage. The point of whether it was breaking the law was a point of the Pharisees not Christ. Christ instead makes claim that he and his disciples have the authority to do so. To do what? to break law? no, because if you have the authority to do it, then you're not breaking it. Was it the "as-is" act breaking law? I don't know and to me it doesn't matter because authority over the Sabbath takes precedence on if it was lawful so it's a moot point. Does the owner break law when they enter the employees' only door, being not an employee themselves? of course not, they own the place and they implicitly have access to the entire place. Jesus draws on the same points regarding duties of priests and regarding himself as Lord of the Sabbath.


What is the product of the magnification of Circumcision? it is a deemphasis of the physical and a new revelation on the spiritual found in Christ. What is the magnification of the sacrifice? again a deemphasis of the physical and a new revelation on the spiritual found in Christ. Do you see the pattern here? Circumcision and sacrifices were religious rites not "moral acts" (outside of obedience of course) so their physical acts are made obsolete to make way for their deeper meanings. So this comes down to how we view the 4th commandment. Is it moral or ceremonial? I already know your answer and I'm not going to argue it, but like-wise you must see the logic where another sees it ceremonially and thus wants to drop the ceremonial aspects to make way for a magnified spiritual meaning found only in Christ.

Even the undisputed moral pillars like do not steal, lie, murder, etc... these themselves, if done alone and not magnified, only give us a one-dimensional cause-and-effect type of morality where anyone can see that it's a good idea not to steal, lie or murder and if you keep these, you live a better life. This is universal in the sense that even without Christ, the products tend to be the same, which is broadly more positive outcomes, and even the Sabbath can be understood this way. If you keep a cultural Sabbath as an atheist, you will probably still reap a positive outcome in your life because the routine of the sabbath is a healthy addition to any lifestyle. But Christ magnifies law so law does not only point to an innate positive impact even without Christ, but instead in a greater system to show not just inclusion of Christ but that he is the crux of all law and without him none of it stands. Sabbath is nothing without Christ, even with the positive impact it may have on our physical routines. So it is only with Christ it takes on a magnified meaning and if we remove the physical aspect, for example are unable to take rest because of physical distress, the magnification still holds. So I may be tortured or face extreme physical distress but still have rest even on the Sabbath this is because the magnification of law does not depend on the physical requirement of law to be magnified and it is indeed made bigger. This is the same with Sabbath with circumcision, the sacrifice, and all of law... all nothing without Christ and when we boil it down, the impactful meaning is not the physical product, although they may have a positive outcome, but only that which can be found through Christ, even whenthe physical is removed.

Like I said previously I am not big on personal philosophies, I think if we stick with the Bible and what God said and Jesus did as our example and not deviate from that as we are told Isa8:20 we will be just fine.

Take care

 

[Hentenza]

You might want to look at it then.

So make your case.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Lets assume I am damned if I don't keep the Sabbath...

So this is getting real serious - hell awaits...

Right... what day is the Sabbath.

Quick research - the calendar has changed several times - which is the seventh day?

Do I go by the Georgian calendar, maybe the Hebrew Calendar, whoops we lost 10 days in 1752...

Then where am I on earth - If I get this wrong it's toast...

Worse if I am on the international space station trying to calculate the time zone.

I have a 1 in 7 chance of getting this right - talk about Russian roulette...

Does God really care about the day ???

Is 1 rest day in 7 near enough? (as long as it isn't Sunday) we know thats definitely wrong...

Wait the Romans had an 8 day week.

Maybe God only likes those with a degree in Maths and History...

Please pray for me...

Everyone seems to know when Sunday is and when Jesus rose. I do not believe this excuse is going to work.

Regardless what man has done to the calendar, it never changed the weekly cycle. Sunday will always be the first day, Saturday will always be the Sabbath or seventh day. Why in almost every ancient language Saturday means Sabbath. If we want to obey God, one will always find a way. Its really not even that hard because we don't have to do it alone John14:15-18

https://manna.amazingfacts.org/amazingfacts/website/sabbathtruth/documents/chart-of-the-week.pdf

 

[JulieB67]

Christ accomplishes a work, and just as with creation, when the work was complete it ushers in a rest called holy and we can partake of that rest

Yes, this is exactly what Hebrews 4 is about.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, this is exactly what Hebrews 4 is about.

Could you point what reference this verse is taking one? Please point to the Scripture. Hebrews 4 is mainly quoting OT, it speaks of Joshua, David and this is a OT reference, the verse is specific something God has spoken.

Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way:

And why do you think it doesn't mean we need to do what God did to enter His rest when it says those have entered also does.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

More importantly can you post where God said we do not need to keep one of His commandments or that the Testimony of God that is under His mercy seat can be edited?

 

[JulieB67]

Could you point what reference this verse is taking one?

Been there, done that many times. Not looking to debate you again, I have my beliefs about that chapter and see them clearly within those verses just as you have yours regarding that chapter.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Been there, done that many times. Not looking to debate you again, I have my beliefs about that chapter and see them clearly within those verses just as you have yours regarding that chapter.

I don't believe we have ever discussed these two verses, just Heb4:9. If you don't want to discuss, I understand, these verses are so specific.

 

[JulieB67]

I don't believe we have ever discussed these two verses,

We have discussed them on numerous threads. I have even posted in #183 about verse 10

We have our context early on in these verses talking about His rest. We have already discussed our beliefs about sabbatismos. You believe it's talking about the weekly and I don't. Verse 10 tells us this is about Christ's rest, not the weekly day of repose.

Hebrews 4:4 "For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, "And God did rest the seventh day from all His works."

You are talking this literally when it's given as an example God rested on the 7th day from all his works. Rest follows works. But if you continue you would see that in these verses we are talking about His rest. And our works ceasing after entering that rest. Not the weekly day of rest/repose.


Hebrews 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

He continues-

Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His."

This is why verse 4 is stated as our example today. Only it's his rest, not the day of rest.

We have ceased from our own works when we enter into "his rest" This is on a spiritual level. It's not talking about a day of the week. It specifically states entering into his rest. And in the next verse, that's the labor that that's important.

Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, least any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

That's the entire context of these verses. It all boils down to entering into His rest. And some falling short because of unbelief. It's not about continuing the 7th day Sabbath. It's about laboring to enter into "his rest".

You believe differently but go ahead and post your beliefs once again if you feel the need...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We have discussed them on numerous threads. I have even posted in #183 about verse 10

We have our context early on in these verses talking about His rest. We have already discussed our beliefs about sabbatismos. You believe it's talking about the weekly and I don't. Verse 10 tells us this is about Christ's rest, not the weekly day of repose.

Hebrews 4:4 "For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, "And God did rest the seventh day from all His works."

You are talking this literally when it's given as an example God rested on the 7th day from all his works. Rest follows works. But if you continue you would see that in these verses we are talking about His rest. And our works ceasing after entering that rest. Not the weekly day of rest/repose.

When did God rest? Verse please?

Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His."

When did God rest?

This is why verse 4 is stated as our example today. Only it's his rest, not the day of rest.

It plainly says we are to cease from our works as God did from His. When did God cease from His works, why was the seventh day spoken of in a certain way, you never addressed this. Other than just dismissing it.

We have ceased from our own works when we enter into "his rest"

When God did, something you seem to be not addressing for some reason

as God did from His."

This is on a spiritual level. It's not talking about a day of the week.

So just ignore what the Scriptures say plainly?

Sounds like its talking about a day of the week and it says plainly which one.

4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works

The seventh day is spiritual, it is God's holy day Isa58:13 the day He commanded us to keep holy Exo20:8 so we can focus on Him and honor Him, sounds spiritual to me. Its both spiritual and physical because God does not want us to work on His holy Sabbath day. Why we rest when God did on the seventh day, because we are made in His image and likeness to follow Him.

It specifically states entering into his rest. And in the next verse, that's the labor that that's important.

And those who enter ALSO do something else but instead of following the text, you went off on your own reasoning.

Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, least any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Unbelief and disobedience and sin (breaking God's law) are all the same thing Heb3:7-19. I will show through Scriptures what the Israelites did, what David was warning about and this whole passage is warning us about, but if you won't look at Heb4:4,10 in what its plainly saying, one will obviously miss the warning and do the opposite of what the verse is trying to tell us. Heb4:9 in the literal translation which you know we are to follow because I saw you post that to another poster on a different verse all ties in.

That's the entire context of these verses. It all boils down to entering into His rest. That's the rest that remains.

Still never addressed when God rested Heb4:4 that the Scriptures plainly says those who has entered His rest ALSO do, why it refers back to what God spoke of- because no one is greater than He to change one of God's commandments written by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

You believe differently but go ahead and post your beliefs once again if you feel the need...

Just trying to help people not fall in the same path of disobedience as those who came before us Heb4:6 this passage is warning us of doing Psa95:7-13 Eze20:13 Heb4:11

 

[JulieB67]

that the Scriptures plainly

That's pretty funny coming from someone who believes that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. No where in scripture states that. One could worship 7 days a week if one wanted to.( And anyone worshipping Satan/Antichrist will receive the mark of the beast regardless of the day) But you don't seem to have a problem believing that because of your belief in a certain prophet. A failed prophet who obviously spoke from her own heart/imagination many times. And yet you believe without scripture stating it. So no offense, but it is kind of hard to take you seriously at times. Especially when you continue to judge others.

The verses about God resting on the 7th day after all his work is our example today that rest follows work. It's not that we continue to seek rest in that 7th day. No where is that stated in those verses. Sabbaton is not mentioned. But that after we enter into "his rest" our works cease just as God did rest from his. The verses "plainly" state which rest we are to enter in. And those who believe do enter in. Some could not because of unbelief, etc. Because of this -

Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Hebrews 4:2 "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, "As I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into My rest:" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

Just trying to help people not fall in the same path of disobedience

Again, you are judging others for what you see is withholding or changing God's Word when you believe doctrines that are entirely unbiblical. So who's adding to God's Word with their beliefs?

You are believing in your church teachings just as I once did mine. I was indoctrinated with certain beliefs that were not biblical. And it's much harder to unlearn something than to learn something new with an open mind, only seeking truth. Which is where I'm at today. Me and the Word. Not man's word.

So again, I'll keep to mine and you can keep to yours.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's pretty funny coming from someone who believes that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. No where in scripture states that. One could worship 7 days a week if one wanted to. But you don't seem to have a problem believing that because of your belief in a certain prophet. A failed prophet who obviously spoke from her own heart/imagination many times. The proof is there. So no offense, but it is kind of hard to take you seriously at times. Especially when you continue to judge others.

The verses about God resting on the 7th day after all his work is our example today that rest follows work. It's not that we continue to seek rest in that 7th day. No where is that stated in those verses. Sabbaton is not mentioned. But that after we enter into "his rest" our works cease just as God did rest from his. The verses "plainly" state which rest we are to enter in. And those who believe do enter in. Some could not because of unbelief, etc. Because of this -

Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Hebrews 4:2 "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, "As I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into My rest:" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."


Again, you are judging others for what you see is withholding or changing God's Word when you believe doctrines that are entirely unbiblical. So who's adding to God's Word with their beliefs?

You are believing in your church teachings just as I once did mine. I was indoctrinated with certain beliefs that were not biblical. And it's much harder to unlearn something than to learn something new with an open mind, only seeking truth. Which is where I'm at today. Me and the Word. Not man's word.

So again, I'll keep to mine and you can keep to yours.

I think you are confusing worshipping God i.e. praying, reading His word, praising Him etc. as a replacement to obedience to God's commandments.

Jesus in His own words relates false worship as laying aside the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments in lieu of the commandments of man. You can see this plainly in Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14


You still never addressed when God's rest is which the Scriptures plainly says, Your focus was we need to enter His rest, but for some reason you seem to think one didn't include what the scriptures says one has done to those who have entered Heb4:10 which the Scriptures do not Heb4:4 Nor do they lay aside the day God rested stated plainly Heb4:4 and what God spoke of in His commandment for us to do Exo20:8-11 Heb4:10

As far as the mark of the best its over worship Rev 14:11 you will see this in Rev 13 and 14 as well and worship is through our obedience as Jesus said plainly quoting from the Ten Commandments, which includes the 4th commandment just the way God wrote it. The beast (government) who is the one who changed God's times and laws Dan7:25 and only the beast can tell us what their mark is and they did.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

 

[JulieB67]

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Again, you are mistaking me for someone who claims we should observe Sunday instead of Saturday and you would be mistaken. I don't hold one day over any day. That's not what entering Christ's rest is about.

And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious

Man's word.

Sadly many people of many denominations are going to fall for the show that Satan and his will put on. That's what apostasy is. Someone who has defected from the truth. It has nothing to do with Sat or Sun. It has to do with believing they are the real thing when they are actually worshipping the fake.

I think you are confusing worshipping with obedience to God's commandments.

I don't think so. You are the one that seems to believe someone can't go to church on Sunday to worship. We can worship any day of the week.

Do you believe it's a sin to go to church and worship on Sunday? And if so, where is that stated in the bible?