The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Studyman]

Personally I have not come across such teaching.

You never heard of the teaching you yourself posted, that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws"? Now Carl, Jesus is watching us you know.

Jesus could only do what He saw the Father doing.

The Fathers heart of compassion did not want the woman stoned.

Don't change the subject, you are preaching to others that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws" and that it was Jesus' disobedience to God's Laws that saved the woman. You provide no Spiritual support for this religious philosophy and it is not supported anywhere in scriptures. Therefore it is your opinion. I posted God's Own Law, and the entire event as it is written and examined it Word by Word. This story doe not validate or even imply that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws". This is not my opinion, you can read it for yourself.

Here are some of the "Word of God" that the Jesus "of the Bible" Humbled Himself to, and also said for men to "Live by".

Ex. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

In fact, God doesn't desire the death of "ANY MAN"?

This doesn't make true your stated philosophy that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws", it exposes the philosophy are wrought in man, and not in God. You are free to adopt it, I just hoped to share what the Spirit of God Inspired Words actually said.

Jesus saw this and trusted the conviction of the Spirit to turn the hearts of the accusers as He wrote on the sand. The Father was expressing the Law of the Spirit - not the OT Law of sin and death.

And yet Jesus, according to what is actually written in Scriptures, followed God's Law perfectly in John 8. While you and the Pharisees are trying to prove that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws".

Can you detail for me please, where Jesus refused to comply with His Father's Laws anywhere in John 8? Just post the Scripture within the chapter that you can use to support the Pharisees and your accusation that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws".

John 8: 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God "heareth God's words": ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So Carl, show me where the Christ "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws" in John 8. The mainstream preachers of Jesus Time couldn't find it. Maybe you can show me.

The OT law was a temporary measure that was passing away, a shadow to point to the Law of the Spirit in Christ.

The Priesthood Law that was ADDED "because of transgression" was temporary, to be in place "till the Seed (God's High Priest "after the order of Melchizedek, not after the Order of Aaron") should come". But "Be ye Holy for I am Holy", or "Love the Lord thy God with all thy Soul", these are not temporary Laws that vanish as soon as a man calls Jesus Lord, Lord. Jesus did though, warn that there would be "many" "Christians" that promote just that.

Who is teaching you things like "Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws", or that the 10 commandments are not still followed in the Kingdom of God? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. At least you have not presented any Scriptures evidence to support your teaching.

So Jesus was technically ignoring the written OT law in obedience to the Father.

So then, in your religion God commanded His Son to ignore His Commandments, but rejected the Jews because, as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches, they ignored His Commandments?

Are you not then promoting that when a man ignores God's Written Law, then his eyes shall be opened, and he shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

I would really step back if I were you, and consider the source of such a philosophy.

Jesus had expressed a compassion principle to bypass the OT Law anyway, so His inaction was sinless.

Show me ONE place where Jesus instructed a man to "bypass" the Word's of His Father? Or show me one place where Jesus Himself "bypassed" the Word's of His Father". And if you can't, then what spirit would prompt men to promote to others that the Jesus "of the bible" "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws", and promoted that others "bypass the OT Law" .

The Priesthood changed, as prophesied, "because the blood of animals can not take away sins", and taught that "To obey is better than sacrifice". But where is the Word's of Jesus promoting your philosophy to "Bypass the Law and Prophets"?

It doesn't exist in Scriptures Carl. Like the Pharisees you are promoting doctrines and philosophies of men, not God.

Now you are free to do so, and maybe it doesn't matter. Nevertheless, the Bible doesn't support the philosophy that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws".

This is the sad fact we are witnessing here - folks making an idol of the OT Law and missing out on the Law of the Spirit direct from the Fathers heart even when His Spirit is personally indwelling them. In that they are bewitched as Paul said.

Probably the most insidious lie, and the most evil and wicked teaching I even encountered being promoted by the religious system of the world God placed me in, is the teaching that the Pharisees were trying to please God and earn salvation by obeying God's Laws. Zacharias, Simeon and Anna "Yielded themselves" in obedience to God's Laws. Jesus humbled Himself in obedience to God's Laws, in fact, every example of Faithful man in the entire Bible "yielded themselves" servants to obey God, not man.

But if I review "EVERY WORD" Jesus spoke to define the Pharisees, there is not "ONE" place where HE says or even implies that the Pharisees were interested in or promoted that a man "Yield himself" a servant to obey God's Laws.

NOT ONE!

And yet, there are "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who promote the lie that the Pharisees promoted God's Laws, and when this lie is shown to them, they get all butthurt, and offended and try to discredit the poor slob who risked a friendship to show a brother his error. This is nothing new, going all the way back to Cain and Abel.

The Pharisees may have made an idol of the Commandments of men that taught for doctrines. But they full well rejected the commandments of God. To preach otherwise, is to deny the Christ Himself.

Walking in the Spirit by seeing what the Father is doing leads to a wonderful life of celebrating His Glory as we walk in the Way and fulfil the pre-prepared works He has ordained for us to walk in.

Sadly this is not often taught as our teachers have been elevated to positions of spiritual responsibility without first learning to die daily, hear the Father daily, and walk in the Spirit as Jesus walked.

Well this sounds all preachy, and churchy no doubt. But there is nowhere in the Scriptures that Jesus teaches His People to "ignore God's Words" or "Bypass God's Laws" nor is it written or even implied that Jesus ""Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws".

You can review the Scriptures I posted, and the word by word analysis given, and show me where I am in error in my understanding, and I wish you would. But if all you have in an opinion, then I would humbly invite you to "Yield yourself" to God, and commit to "Living by" the Words that the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself said to live by. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

 

[Jerry N.]

I think we should, it never was abolished. There are a lot of health benefits to it and if I had a son, I would, but it can't save anyone which again which is what the Jews were teaching Acts 15:1 that Paul was correcting. Its no longer about gaining access to the sin solution, Jesus made that clear at the Cross had you read my post with these Scriptures.

Circumcision was never in the Ten Commandments, it was not part of the Testimony of God it served a different purpose which the Bible explains if we allow it to.

Genesis 17:10-14 clearly states that circumcision is for the descendants of Abraham. But I agree that it is a good idea for health reasons.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Genesis 17:10-14 clearly states that circumcision is for the descendants of Abraham. But I agree that it is a good idea for health reasons.

Yes, God took that wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles at the Cross. Now everyone can access the cure for sins, which is Jesus Christ and be part of the promises made through Abraham by faith. Gal3:26-29

 

[Servus]

Because she uses harsh and terminal terms to dramatize her posts. It’s an emotional fallacy tactic to intimidate others. Legalist sects use these tactics often. Jesus fulfilled (completed) all of the law. In fact, those that are still under the law, like disbelieving Israel, are still being circumcised and the Jewish sabbath is still required. This notion alone invalidates her “abolished” descriptive moniker.

I've seen other Sabbatarians do so as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Now you are free to do so, and maybe it doesn't matter. Nevertheless, the Bible doesn't support the philosophy that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws".

Jesus is His own words refutes this

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

 

[Servus]

Don't change the subject, you are preaching to others that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws" and that it was Jesus' disobedience to God's Laws that saved the woman.

That's an incredibly bad interpretation of what Carl said. Can't help but conclude that you get things wrong.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus saw this and trusted the conviction of the Spirit to turn the hearts of the accusers as He wrote on the sand.

The Father was expressing the Law of the Spirit - not the OT Law of sin and death.

Jesus said He did not come to condemn the world the first time but through Him one might be saved. The Second time He comes as a King and Judge 2Cor5:10 and we will be in one of two groups.

What most miss about this story of the mercy and grace of Jesus, was what did He tell to this women after He gave her grace?

Go and Sin NO MORE John8:11, not its okay to continuing committing adultery. No one is saved in their sins Heb8:10-26 Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21 while that was an example of His grace, He clearly told her not to continue breaking the law. Same goes for us, grace does not give us a license to continue to sin Rom6:1-4 where there remains no more sacrifice for sins Heb10:26-30 if we do not change our ways, we may end up in the direction where we are heading Rom6:16 Rev22:14-15

The OT law of sin and death very much exists today and as Paul clearly said, if we are not serving the law of God we are serving the law of sin and death Rom 7:22-25 Rom 8:1-8.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, God took that wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles at the Cross. Now everyone can access the cure for sins, which is Jesus Christ and be part of the promises made through Abraham by faith. Gal3:26-29

I would caution about calling or implying that God is the author of the "wall of Separation" Paul spoke to in Eph. 2. Not that you are, but it is a widespread teaching that it was God's Laws that relegated faithful gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". I don't believe, according to the Scriptures, that it was God's Laws that caused this separation. If I may, let me show why.

Gen. 17: 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, "which is not of thy seed". 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

I believe Moses confirmed this.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And again;

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be "unto you" as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Clearly the Pharisees never considered a Faithful Gentile, as "Jew".

I think Jesus was of the same mind when HE said "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham", and Paul when he said "a Jew is one Inwardly".

The religion that had taken over the City of David and the Temple of Solomon promoted for doctrines the Commandments of men and for centuries had led men astray, persecuted Faithful Jews and Gentiles. I believe these religions and the commandments and traditions of men the promoted for doctrines, are the ordinances that caused the problems in this world, not God's Commandments.

As Paul said: "Wherefore remember, that ye (Repentant Gentiles) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who "are called Uncircumcision" by that "which is called" the Circumcision (Pharisees) in the flesh "made by hands;"

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I would ask, when did God's Laws relegate anyone who "joined themselves to the Lord", as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

But the Jews did have that very law. "And he (Peter) said unto them, "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation"; But as we can see, God's Laws promoted the exact opposite. If a man from another nation chose to sojourn with them, they were to be considered as one born among them.

"but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean", and "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."

From the very beginning God has cleansed Strangers who sojourned with Israel and Abraham. It was the corrupt Priests who taught for doctrines the Laws of men that created this separation in Jerusalem.

Eph. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh "the enmity", even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Great topic, and food for thought.

 

[Studyman]

That's an incredibly bad interpretation of what Carl said. Can't help but conclude that you get things wrong.

That would be no surprise from a man who believes Jesus refused to comply to His Father's Law.

 

[Studyman]

Jesus is His own words refutes this

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Excellent point, not made by a religious opinion, but by posting the very Word's of the Lord's Christ. Thanks for adding it.

 

[Servus]

That would be no surprise from a man who believes Jesus refused to comply to His Father's Law.

That's also wrong. You interpret incorrectly.

 

[Hentenza]

Jesus ratified His covenant by His blood, but His covenant is very much a wedding covenant.

No. Not even close.

Anyone can enter though faith Gal3:26-29 and part of the promises.

Yep.

Faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31

Once again quoting verses out of context.

“Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭27‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:28-31 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will ju | New American Standard Bible - NA

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will ju

bible.com

What law? The law of Faith, of course. Have you guys not realized yet that Paul’s argument against the law in Romans aand Galatians completely debunks your belief? If Paul is establishing the law then why would Paul describe it as weak and ineffective just 5 books later (Rom. 8)? Don’t you see the fallacy of your argument?

The gentiles are grafted in by Sabbath-keeping

Isa 56:6“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

These were gentiles converting to Judaism. Do you not see that or are you grasping at straws? There is no required sabbath keeping in the NT. You still can’t post a verse that proves that the 4th commandment was repeated into Jesus two love commandments.

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

And He did not break it. He fulfilled it.

Isa 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name.”

And what does this prove? Symbolic language is exactly that. Heck, God wrote Israel a decree of divorce also but yet God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16). Does God talk about both sides of His mouth. Your interpretation causes a ton of tension in scripture that does not need to
Be there.

Eze 16:8 “I made My vow to you and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Lord GOD, and you became Mine.”

Great. Talking to Israel NOT the Christian church.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [a]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

And? Not talking about the wedding but about the love. Reading comprehension?

Revelation 19:7
“Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

And? What does this prove? Are you just searching for “wedding or marriage” and then just posting the verses regardless of relevance?

I personally want to be in a wedding covenant with Christ, but we are given free will

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

“For in finding fault with the people, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will bring about a new covenant With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:8 For in finding fault with the people, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL BRING ABOUT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The

For in finding fault with the people, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL BRING ABOUT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

bible.com

Still don’t get it don’t you?

Also,

“When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

bible.com

Still don’t see it?

One God, one body of people, those who have God's laws, not mans version, God's version Exo 31:18 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 because He is God, we are to be His humble servant and a servant is not greater than their master. John13:16

And yet our master is Christ which IS God and ushered in a new covenant of blood that does not includes the 613 Jewish laws including the 10 commandments. We are now convicted and guided by the spirit not by the law. Stop trying to put the Christian under the bondage of the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I would caution about calling or implying that God is the author of the "wall of Separation" Paul spoke to in Eph. 2. Not that you are, but it is a widespread teaching that it was God's Laws that relegated faithful gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". I don't believe, according to the Scriptures, that it was God's Laws that caused this separation. If I may, let me show why.

Gen. 17: 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, "which is not of thy seed". 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

I believe Moses confirmed this.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And again;

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be "unto you" as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Clearly the Pharisees never considered a Faithful Gentile, as "Jew".

I think Jesus was of the same mind when HE said "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham", and Paul when he said "a Jew is one Inwardly".

The religion that had taken over the City of David and the Temple of Solomon promoted for doctrines the Commandments of men and for centuries had led men astray, persecuted Faithful Jews and Gentiles. I believe these religions and the commandments and traditions of men the promoted for doctrines, are the ordinances that caused the problems in this world, not God's Commandments.

As Paul said: "Wherefore remember, that ye (Repentant Gentiles) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who "are called Uncircumcision" by that "which is called" the Circumcision (Pharisees) in the flesh "made by hands;"

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I would ask, when did God's Laws relegate anyone who "joined themselves to the Lord", as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

But the Jews did have that very law. "And he (Peter) said unto them, "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation"; But as we can see, God's Laws promoted the exact opposite. If a man from another nation chose to sojourn with them, they were to be considered as one born among them.

"but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean", and "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."

From the very beginning God has cleansed Strangers who sojourned with Israel and Abraham. It was the corrupt Priests who taught for doctrines the Laws of men that created this separation in Jerusalem.

Eph. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh "the enmity", even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Great topic, and food for thought.

It states it plainly what that law of separation was.

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.



Strangers in the OT could get access to the cure for sins and animal sacrifices, and the earthy temple with an earthy priesthood only by circumcision

Numbers9:13 But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and ceases to keep the Passover, that same person shall be cut off from among his people, because he did not bring the offering of the Lord at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin.
Exo 12:43And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the ordinance of the Passover:No foreigner shall eat it.
Exo 12:44But every man's servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him,then he may eat it.
Exo 12:48And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised,and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.

Jesus clearly removed that wall of separation where anyone can gain access to cure for sins since there is no more earthy temple or earthy priesthood, everything is through Jesus now, He is our Mediator and High Preist.

 

[Hentenza]

Jesus is His own words refutes this

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Here Jesus is making a comparison. It is important to read the actual words instead of adding just unfounded interpretation.

Jesus states that if you keep MY commandments you will abide by love (obviously referring to Jesus two love commandments) JUST ( a word used to equal something to something else) just as Christ kept His Father’s commandments.

Reading the words is important.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No. Not even close.

Yep.

Once again quoting verses out of context.

“Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭27‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:28-31 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will ju | New American Standard Bible - NA

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will ju

bible.com

What law? The law of Faith, of course. Have you guys not realized yet that Paul’s argument against the law in Romans aand Galatians completely debunks your belief? If Paul is establishing the law then why would Paul describe it as weak and ineffective just 5 books later (Rom. 8)? Don’t you see the fallacy of your argument?



These were gentiles converting to Judaism. Do you not see that or are you grasping at straws? There is no required sabbath keeping in the NT. You still can’t post a verse that proves that the 4th commandment was repeated into Jesus two love commandments.

And He did not break it. He fulfilled it.

And what does this prove? Symbolic language is exactly that. Heck, God wrote Israel a decree of divorce also but yet God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16). Does God talk about both sides of His mouth. Your interpretation causes a ton of tension in scripture that does not need to
Be there.

Great. Talking to Israel NOT the Christian church.

And? Not talking about the wedding but about the love. Reading comprehension?

And? What does this prove? Are you just searching for “wedding or marriage” and then just posting the verses regardless of relevance?

“For in finding fault with the people, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will bring about a new covenant With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:8 For in finding fault with the people, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL BRING ABOUT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The

For in finding fault with the people, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL BRING ABOUT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

bible.com

Still don’t get it don’t you?

Also,

“When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

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Still don’t see it?


And yet our master is Christ which IS God and ushered in a new covenant of blood that does not includes the 613 Jewish laws including the 10 commandments. We are now convicted and guided by the spirit not by the law. Stop trying to put the Christian under the bondage of the law.

We have been these arguments many times. The law of faith is the law of God, the law of sin and death is not faith, but breaking or not subjecting ourselves to the law of God. Romans 7:22-25 Rom8:7-8


God made the first one obsolete, no one is arguing that. But God in His great mercy did not leave His people with a way to reconcile and be in His covenant

However the New Covenant is not established on all new laws and all the old laws became obsolete or God wrote and un-biblical number of 9 commandments in the NC and forgot to write the one commandment He said to Remember and is holy, blessed by God of the Universe that points to Him as our Creator Exo20:11 the only God we are to worship Rev14:7 and God our Sanctifier Eze20:12

So back to what the Bible says is the New Covenant and what it is established on

Heb8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Which means what the entire basis is on, not new laws but better promises.

What happened to God's laws in the New Covenant. Paul explains this plainly


2 Cor3: clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

The only Law written on tables of stone is the Ten Commandments- All Ten of them, just as God said Deut4:13 Exo 34:28

And where did those Laws go, Paul tells us from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Exactly what God said His Laws (He defines them not man) from being written on stone Exo34:28 to being written on the heart Heb8:10 if we do not rebel Rom8:7-8 and not listen to the Holy Spirit tell us to not harden our hearts (to the law of God where He placed it in the heart) but turn from sin, rebellion and unbelief which is disobedience. Heb3:7-19

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here Jesus is making a comparison. It is important to read the actual words instead of adding just unfounded interpretation.

Jesus states that if you keep MY commandments you will abide by love (obviously referring to Jesus two love commandments) JUST ( a word used to equal something to something else) just as Christ kept His Father’s commandments.

Reading the words is important.

Its why not isolating Scriptures and inserting what we want it to say, is so important.

God's will is the same as Jesus will. God's laws are the same as Jesus. Jesus is God, God is Jesus. Jesus never taught do as I say, not as I do. This shows a misunderstanding of the character of Jesus who is God. God always led by example and showed us what it means to do what He asks. From the very beginning. Gen 2:1-3 Exo20:8-11

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Are these different commandments that Jesus kept from what we are to keep if we abide in Him, of course not

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for [e]us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Same commandments, Jesus showed us how. He could not be our Savior or example to follow if He held Himself to a different standard than He does for us. But instead Heb4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I am not going to respond further, we are so far off on our understanding of the plain word of God. He will sort this out soon enough.

 

[Servus]

The Ten Commandments started at Creation according to God own Testimony in the Ten Commandments Exo20:11 so you're wrong about that.

That just talks about the 4th commandment. God wrote the Ten Commandments long after he commanded circumcision.

You missing the point of circumcision and its purpose, I explained it by clear Scriptures. Not much more I can do.

You showed that it's no longer required, even though it was a commandment from God. That there are covenant commandments that are no longer required to be kept because of our new covenant with God through Jesus Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That just talks about the 4th commandment. God wrote the Ten Commandments long after he commanded circumcision.

At least you see the Sabbath started at Creation, that's a good start, when there was no sin. God made everything according to His perfect plan. However where there is no law there is no sin. Rom4:15 Sin started right from the beginning, so therefore so did God's laws. And we know from Scripture the law that defines sin is the Ten Commandments


1 John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

You can find the rest of what God said in the Ten Commandments where God shows they started at Creation Exo20:11 because there was sin shortly after creation and the Bible explains what that is. Why Cain knew it was sin to kill Abel before the Ten Commandments- we see all the principles of the Ten Commandments in Scripture prior to them being codified

You showed that it's no longer required, even though it was a commandment from God. That there are covenant commandments that are no longer required to be kept because of our new covenant with God through Jesus Christ.

No, you are reading what you want to read into my words and sadly the Scriptures. Circumcision is not required to get access to the cure for sin in the NC. Jesus became our circumcision. It doesn't say we can start deleting commandments or the laws we do not want to keep that is sin because of this. No where does it say circumcision ended, it served a whole other purpose the Bible tells us if we allow the Bible to explain Itself.


Not removing a jot or tittle means just that from the commandments Mat5:18-30, circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments, never was never will be and served a different purpose than showing us what sin is when breaking them.

 

[Hentenza]

We have been through this a thousand times, not sure why you can't remember I am going to save this post so next time you bring this up I can remind you of what we have been through already.

Why don’t you show me the post where you refuted it? You are still wrong. Your c&p’s have been throughly refuted but you continue to post them. Maybe that should give you an hint that they are wrong. You continue to use the save out of context verses. There has not been an original post other than when you don’t quote verses. Again, all you have to do to prove your argument is to post a verses where the 4th commandment was repeated into Jesus two love commandments.

Just like we went through the law of faith is the law of God, the law of sin and death is not faith, but breaking or not subjecting ourselves to the law of God. Romans 7:22-25 Rom8:7-8

But you continue to ignore the verses around them that clarify the interpretation. Take for example Romans 8.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-8 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

The law of God here is again contrasted between those of the flesh and those of the Spirit. Paul begins this chapter by criticizing the law so do you think that Paul is panhandling the law for the Christian? I think not.

Yes, God made the first one obsolete, no one is arguing that. But God in His great mercy did not leave His people with a way to reconcile and be in His covenant

However the New Covenant is not established on all new laws and all the old laws became obsolete or God wrote and un-biblical number of 9 commandments in the NC and forgot to write the one commandment He said to Remember and is holy, blessed by God of the Universe that points to Him as our Creator Exo20:11 the only God we are to worship Rev14:7 and God our Sanctifier Eze20:12

Again, post the verse where the 4th commandment is repeated into Jesus two love commandments. That is all you have to do to prove your argument. Until you do your argument is not based on biblical evidence.

So back to what the Bible says is the New Covenant and what it is established on

Heb8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Which means what the entire basis is on, not new laws but better promises.

Which does not includes laws but promises. Nothing in this verse about laws.

What happened to God's laws in the New Covenant. Paul explains this plainly


2 Cor3: clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

The only Law written on tables of stone is the Ten Commandments- All Ten of them, just as God said Deut4:13 Exo 34:28

And yet Paul plainly said NOT on tablets of stone. The tablets of flesh is Jesus (Rom.10:4). Jesus fulfilled the 4th commandment on Him and is not the Lord of the sabbath.

And where did those Laws go, Paul tells us from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Exactly what God said His Laws (He defines them not man) from being written on stone Exo34:28 to being written on the heart Heb8:10 if we do not rebel Rom8:7-8 and not listen to the Holy Spirit tell us to not harden our hearts (to the law of God where He placed it in the heart) but turn from sin, rebellion and unbelief which is disobedience. Heb3:7-19

The Jewish law is no more for the Christian. We are in a new covenant that does not include the law. End stop. There is no argument that you can put forward that would justify the bondage of the law for the Christian.

 

[Hentenza]

Its why not isolating Scriptures and inserting what we want it to say, is so important.

lol you are the one isolating scriptures. I merely showed you how you read this verse.

God's will is the same as Jesus will. God's laws are the same as Jesus. Jesus is God, God is Jesus. Jesus never taught do as I say, not as I do. This shows a misunderstanding of the character of Jesus who is God. God always led by example and showed us what it means to do what He asks. From the very beginning. Gen 2:1-3 Exo20:8-11

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Are these different commandments that Jesus kept from what we are to keep if we abide in Him, of course not

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for [e]us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Same commandments, Jesus showed us how. He could not be our Savior or example to follow if He held Himself to a different standard than He does for us. But instead Heb4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I am not going to respond further, we are so far off on our understanding of the plain word of God. He will sort this out soon enough.

This is the same sad argument that you are yet to prove. Again, you can prove your argument by posting a verse that repeats the 4th commandment into Jesus two love commandments. I’ve given you plenty of time to post such a verse but you have not so far. Why?