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The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

sculleywr

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The sun does rise and set, following its ordained path which it "runs as a giant", in the circle of the earth.

Rev 6:

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Well, let's go ahead and take the rest of Revelations literally:

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth


So a 7-eyed, 7-horned lamb will stand at the center of the throne of heaven.

How interesting. Maybe a picture would make sense of it:

Image+(4).jpg

Was I on LSD or did I just see an alien lamb?
 
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~Anastasia~

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Forget the hit. There would be nothing left of the earth long before even a brown dwarf hit the earth

Yeah, I know, but I would hope anyone could imagine a star smashing into earth and leaving nothing. But I know it would be burned up and there never would be an impact.

I was trying to make a point and keep it as simple and straightforward as possible.
 
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~Anastasia~

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The sun does rise and set, following its ordained path which it "runs as a giant", in the circle of the earth.

Rev 6:

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Exactly, we SEE the sun rise and set. It appears that way to us. Nevermind that for a second ...

Do you really believe the stars of heaven - the actual stars, which are suns themselves - are going to fall to the earth, and the earth will still be here? Only shaken up a bit?
 
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~Anastasia~

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And most importantly in my mind ... does anyone think that if the earth DOES orbit around the sun, and that Revelation might talk about meteors falling instead of star-suns ... does that really mean the Bible isn't true? Does the truth of Scripture really rest on these particular interpretations?

I would hope not ...

When my daughter was a year old, I told her that the electrical outlets would "bite" her. She would have experienced something like a "bite" if she had stuck something conductive into the slot, but it actually would have been a dangerous electrical current passing through her body. Did I explain it to her in that way? No, I explained it in terms she would understand, so my purpose was accomplished (she didn't touch them). Did I lie? No, I explained per a child's understanding.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Do you really believe the stars of heaven - the actual stars, which are suns themselves - are going to fall to the earth, and the earth will still be here? Only shaken up a bit?
Where in the Word of God does it say stars are "suns"?
Have you ever looked at the Word of God to discover what it says stars are and do?
When you do, get back to me, cause your discussion is at this time only from your own opinion, which is not based on what the Word says....I would like to discuss the Word with you about the stars, it, but I cannot discuss if you haven't read what it says -see?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Or by the fact that it bloody well isn't there, which in fact it is not. Who's doing violence to the truth now, huh?

Being an Electrical Engineer, I suspect it would be more profitable for you to attempt teaching your grandmother how to, shall we say, eat eggs, than to school me on the nature of electricity. The ancients knew little or nothing about "electric power", and it is mentioned not at all in Scripture except in the context of lightning, of whose nature they were entirely ignorant.

Really? Gimme the Scripture on that, por favor.


Your Bible seems to talk a lot about electricity, but mine mentions it not at all. How do you account for that?
So after I schooled you that lightning is electricity and it is in the Bible, you come back and say you are an electrical engineer, but say the ancients did not understand it!
Your denials are amazing
Tis God who speaks of His lightnings/powers as angels/messengers who do His will.
The universe is electric, as we see in the Word, and I am not an "electrical engineer", but I read the Bible and I read history, and I observe nature.
God has angels that are pillars of fire -electrical beings, if you will.
God says He speaks to the lightnings and they answer Him; "Here we are".
 
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sculleywr

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yeshuasavedme said:
Where in the Word of God does it say stars are "suns"? Have you ever looked at the Word of God to discover what it says stars are and do? When you do, get back to me, cause your discussion is at this time only from your own opinion, which is not based on what the Word says....I would like to discuss the Word with you about the stars, it, but I cannot discuss if you haven't read what it says -see?

Scripture isn't a science textbook. It doesn't have to define everything.
 
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sculleywr

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So after I schooled you that lightning is electricity and it is in the Bible, you come back and say you are an electrical engineer, but say the ancients did not understand it!

They said it was lightning. They did not explain the specifics we now know and understand about how lightning works. They did not explain how it results as a buildup of static electricity in the clouds, resulting in a negative charge in the cloud that equalizes with the positive charge of the ground. Because they saw what happens and acknowledged it existed does not mean they understand it.

Your denials are amazing
Tis God who speaks of His lightnings/powers as angels/messengers who do His will.

It's us who have harnessed the very power of lightning to run that computer you are working from. Are you telling me that we control the angels now?

The universe is electric, as we see in the Word, and I am not an "electrical engineer", but I read the Bible and I read history, and I observe nature.

We know the universe is magnetic, but not electric. Yes, magnetism and electricity are two sides of the same coin, but electricity requires a flow of electrons from one point to the next, which only really occurs on a small scale compared to the size of the universe.

And you do not observe the natural world around you, because you would have noticed your geocentric ideal doesn't work with reality.

God has angels that are pillars of fire -electrical beings, if you will.
God says He speaks to the lightnings and they answer Him; "Here we are".
Fire is not electricity. Fire is the combustion of carbon-carrying fuels that converts the carbon into CO2. When it says "a pillar of fire", I see a literal pillar of fire. Not electricity. They are different.

And if the ancients really did understand electricity, they would know the difference between a pillar of fire and lightning.
 
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pgp_protector

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This is one of the reasons I'm more & more disappointed with this site.
How posters are allowed to make such a mockery of God by skirting the rules is beyond me.
And the lurkers that don't known about God, see stuff like this and in other areas and can think if this is what I'm required to believe then I'm out of here.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The Scripture does not lie.
God wrote the Word through men.
It is what God said -and still says- and which Word men of faith have always believed, such as the early Church fathers -the apostolic fathers- who believed His Word about His geo-centric universe and left their writings of confirmations of such.

There have always been men of unbelief who change and deny and obfuscate the Word, but the wise will prove all things by the Word, not by the words of men who deny and try to claim they have real science -but is really only science falsely so called- and claim that the Scripture is not real science....
We have a supernatural Creator who made a supernatural creation upheld supernaturally by His word, and all His works are supernatural. Men who try to make up stories leaving out the supernatural dimension to everything that is, has been, and shall be, are men of unbelief who leave God out of everything and try to be wise in their own eyes.


God has an Electric/Lightning sword:

Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.


For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering/lightning בָּרָק sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

His brightness is as the lightning/fire, and He has "Rays of Light" coming out of His hands.

Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.



Eze 1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

Eze 1:14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.


Dan 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:


Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.



Ezekiel 1:
4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of Adam [man].
6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a [man] Adam, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a Adam [man] above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Where in the Word of God does it say stars are "suns"?
Have you ever looked at the Word of God to discover what it says stars are and do?
When you do, get back to me, cause your discussion is at this time only from your own opinion, which is not based on what the Word says....I would like to discuss the Word with you about the stars, it, but I cannot discuss if you haven't read what it says -see?

Yes, I've looked at the Bible. I know what I've read the stars are and what they do. They sing, among other things. ;)

So ... what do you think the stars are? How big are they? Are they alive? Are they bodies in the sky, as our sun is? Or are they creatures?

And what are those things we can see through telescopes? Are they stars?

I'm not asking to be "schooled" ... I'm asking what you believe? Without knowing if we are speaking of the same things, discussion becomes pointless. (Which I suspect it may be anyway, since I am not sure we are even talking on the same plane.)
 
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yeshuasavedme

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yeshuasavedme

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Yes, I've looked at the Bible. I know what I've read the stars are and what they do. They sing, among other things. ;)

So ... what do you think the stars are? How big are they? Are they alive? Are they bodies in the sky, as our sun is? Or are they creatures?

And what are those things we can see through telescopes? Are they stars?

I'm not asking to be "schooled" ... I'm asking what you believe? Without knowing if we are speaking of the same things, discussion becomes pointless. (Which I suspect it may be anyway, since I am not sure we are even talking on the same plane.)
Kylissa,
I would love to have this discussion with you....and I have to go work on a project for my daughter today and will not be here for a few hours but I will check in on my breaks, and if anything is extremely interesting to make me pull out the bluetooth keyboard to reply over the phone, I might...but prob. will not be able to begin it till this eve.
My discussion will be on what God says stars are, and yes, they are living beings as all His works are, for He is the father of all spirits, as well as the father of the spirits of all flesh.
Every living thing is a created living spirit, and which spirit of each kind stands before the Creator and answers to Him. You and I cannot speak to the spirits of the created kinds and make them obey our voice -there are exceptions to that rule- but God the Creator does, and all creation is groaning, and waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God when we shall be changed and the universe will be righted..
In Revelation, even the horns of the altar speak, and are living creatures that do His will, as seen in Revelation.

"Stars in their courses fought against Sisera" and sent floods ..."Disasters" are caused by angels/stars, and men are judged for their wickedness when the stars send judgments down.
Stars are called angels, and God calls each by their name, which He named them.
 
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sculleywr

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yeshuasavedme said:
The Scripture does not lie. God wrote the Word through men. It is what God said -and still says- and which Word men of faith have always believed, such as the early Church fathers -the apostolic fathers- who believed His Word about His geo-centric universe and left their writings of confirmations of such. There have always been men of unbelief who change and deny and obfuscate the Word, but the wise will prove all things by the Word, not by the words of men who deny and try to claim they have real science -but is really only science falsely so called- and claim that the Scripture is not real science.... We have a supernatural Creator who made a supernatural creation upheld supernaturally by His word, and all His works are supernatural. Men who try to make up stories leaving out the supernatural dimension to everything that is, has been, and shall be, are men of unbelief who leave God out of everything and try to be wise in their own eyes. God has an Electric/Lightning sword: Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering/lightning ?????? sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. His brightness is as the lightning/fire, and He has "Rays of Light" coming out of His hands. Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. Eze 1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. Eze 1:14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. Dan 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. Ezekiel 1:
scripture doesn't lie. People adding geocentrism to the bible do.
 
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Achilles6129

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Do you really believe the stars of heaven - the actual stars, which are suns themselves - are going to fall to the earth, and the earth will still be here? Only shaken up a bit?

FYI, I think that the passage you're referring to is describing the earth falling off of its axis. Were the earth to tip off of its axis if you were standing on the night side of the earth it would look like the stars were actually moving, or, in this case, falling to the ground.

Also: I have not read all of this thread, so does anyone have any Scripture they want to post on the sun going 'round the earth? Or, if the subject has already been addressed, could anyone direct me to the pertinent post(s) on this thread? Thanks.
 
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The universe is electric . When God said: "Let there be light", the powers were brought forth that this entire creation runs on.
Electric Universe theory

The universe is not electric.

First and foremost, it doesn't appear that the electric universe model makes any quantitative predictions. I don't see any models for how stars and galaxies are supposed to form and behave, just a bunch of words about how gravitational models make too many assumptions or rely on too much theory, whatever that means.

Also, it appears that these models don't really discuss the equivalence principle. If you're going to use electricity to explain gravity, you need to explain why the rate at which something falls is independent of that object's charge (minus electric self-force), and also independent of that object's mass. Why do all objects near the Earth fall with the same acceleration?
 
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Jipsah

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Where in the Word of God does it say stars are "suns"?
Where does it say they aren't?

your discussion is at this time only from your own opinion, which is not based on what the Word says.
The same can be said if your position. You have a very interesting, not to say bizarre, idea of what the Scriptures mean, that you treat as though they were what the Word actually said. Fact is, they don't overlap all that much.
 
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~Anastasia~

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FYI, I think that the passage you're referring to is describing the earth falling off of its axis. Were the earth to tip off of its axis if you were standing on the night side of the earth it would look like the stars were actually moving, or, in this case, falling to the ground.

Also: I have not read all of this thread, so does anyone have any Scripture they want to post on the sun going 'round the earth? Or, if the subject has already been addressed, could anyone direct me to the pertinent post(s) on this thread? Thanks.

Whatever the cause, that is really my whole point. What the Bible describes is what appears to be happening, not a textbook description of what actually is happening.

I did actually go back a ways looking for the Scripture for you. I know one was about the sun running it's course through the sky. The other thread has some nearly 70 verses about the sun rising and setting with the intention of proving the earth itself stands still. It's a very busy day for me though, and I couldn't find them quickly. Perhaps whoever posted them first will come back and post them for you. Sorry to have to be unhelpful on this.
 
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Jipsah

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So after I schooled you that lightning is electricity and it is in the Bible
<ROFL> Nice try, and no worky.

, you come back and say you are an electrical engineer
I was an EE for a long while before you enlightened me on the electrical nature of lightning, so you can't really take credit for it. ;)

, but say the ancients did not understand it!
They didn't. If you believe that did, be good enough to show me where the Bible sets forth Ohm's Law, or how to determine the amount of energy in a lightning bolt.

Your denials are amazing
Denial of the false are entirely appropriate.

Tis God who speaks of His lightnings/powers as angels/messengers who do His will.
Since everything does His will, that isn't much of a revelation.

The universe is electric, as we see in the Word
Reference, please. I can't find that one.

, and I am not an "electrical engineer"
I did suspect that.

, but I read the Bible
And know as little about electricity afterwards as before. That isn't what the Bible is about.

and I read history
And you find accounts of the ancients having knowledge of electricity where? Oh, I forgot, they knew that lightning existed! What else is there to know? :p

, and I observe nature.
As long as it's not through an evil telescope.

God has angels that are pillars of fire -electrical beings, if you will.
The Bible doesn't say that angels are "electrical beings", and neither do I. That notion seems to be uniquely yours.

God says He speaks to the lightnings and they answer Him; "Here we are".
And there's all we need to know to design an integrated circuit. Booyah!
 
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