The Start of the Tribulation

[Ronald]

Ebed,

While doing some research on gematria and Obama, I came across this site: Is the Man of Sin Revealed?

 

[zeke37]

what makes you think gematria is true?

 

[Interplanner]

OK, so there is the reference to Nero in 666 in Rev. But you would be hard pressed to find anything else. This is why in Protestant interp, "systematic treatments overrule incidental references." When that is combined with "didactic passages overrule symbolic ones," it weakens attention to 666 quite a bit. Better to grasp I Jn 2 & 4 about antichrist than Rev.

--Inter

 

[ebedmelech]

The Revelation was written well after the destruction of Jerusalem. The 5 horsemen are 5 Christian superpowers who each rule for a thousand years.

I'll just refer you to this which I posted in another thread:

That would not be true! It certainly was tread under...what do you call what the Romans did to it? Why was it called a Roman/Jewish war that went from 66-70 A.D.?

Where the problem is is you don't realize in Revelation 18 when it says "Babylon is Fallen" it's speaking of Jerusalem and the temple! Revelation 18:21-24 should make it obvious that it is Jerusalem:

21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”

How one can deny this is Jerusalem is beyond me!!! You miss the boat on this when you think Revelation was written in 95 A.D. IT WAS NOT!

This is why Jesus uttered His lament over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

The "Fallen Babylon" is that!

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

No one knows the hour, it will come like a thief in the night. Focus on our most Holy Triune God full of mercy and grace.

(EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realize this was on the End of the World sub-forum, I guess this is the point of this discussion, ignore my comment)

No problem. But something interesting in Revelation 3:3 "If you shall NOT WATCH, I WILL come upon you as a thief, and you WILL NOT KNOW what hour I come upon you." (emphasis mine)

That sentence is equivalent to "If you SHALL WATCH, I will NOT come upon you as a thief, and you WILL KNOW what hour I come upon you."

And the verse everyone quotes "Of that day and hour no man knows, no, not even the angels in heaven, but My Father only."

That verse does not speak of the return of Yeshua (Jesus). It speaks of the passing away of heaven and earth.

The passage actually reads...

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only"

Matthew 24:35-36

Ebed,
While doing some research on gematria and Obama, I came across this site: Is the Man of Sin Revealed?

That site you referenced says that the number of the beast should be calculated using English gematria, rather than Hebrew or Greek. But what about someone who's name equals 666 using English, Hebrew and Greek gematria? That makes sense because it should be the Antichrist's language, the Hebrew's language, and the trade language of the day the Revelation was given, Greek.

Look at this http://www.theunholygodhead.com/Documents/The Prince Who Is To Come - Monte Judah.pdf

I say this with the hope that you will watch just as the Lord commanded.

-LvB-

 

[Douggg]

OK, so there is the reference to Nero in 666 in Rev. But you would be hard pressed to find anything else. This is why in Protestant interp, "systematic treatments overrule incidental references." When that is combined with "didactic passages overrule symbolic ones," it weakens attention to 666 quite a bit. Better to grasp I Jn 2 & 4 about antichrist than Rev.

--Inter

Hi inter, if you are going to go by systematic treatments, then in John, antichrist shall come is the heading for the person, while the bible systematically and linearly identifies the four stages of his career.

Linear - i.e. from the older passages to the newer passages:
Starting in Daniel 7 & 8, the little horn.
in Daniel 9, the prince who shall come
in 2thessalonians 2, the man of sin
in Revelation, the beast

The Antichrist was not Nero, is not Obama.

Doug

 

[Interplanner]

There were many and they were present when John wrote his letters.

 

[Douggg]

There were many and they were present when John wrote his letters.

What happened to the systematic treatment?

Doug

 

[Ronald]

what makes you think gematria is true?

I didn't say it was. If you read through the information, it seems hard to deny.

 

[Interplanner]

Doug
oh sorry, my mistake. I meant that if a passage was symbolic to begin with, it would not have the status of a didactic passage. I Jn 2 & 4 are not symbolic. Rev 13 is long, but the symbolism loses traction compared to Mt 24 & //s or Thess. material on him.

--Inter

 

[Ronald]

Babylon the great harlot is a giant monkey that sits on seven bananna peels. A giant guerilla briefly had his way with her and he the antichrist will command all the world to worship his giant bananna.

I'm not making this up.....really!![/

I needed a good laugh today.

 

[Ebed]

No problem. But something interesting in Revelation 3:3 "If you shall NOT WATCH, I WILL come upon you as a thief, and you WILL NOT KNOW what hour I come upon you." (emphasis mine)

That sentence is equivalent to "If you SHALL WATCH, I will NOT come upon you as a thief, and you WILL KNOW what hour I come upon you."

And the verse everyone quotes "Of that day and hour no man knows, no, not even the angels in heaven, but My Father only."

That verse does not speak of the return of Yeshua (Jesus). It speaks of the passing away of heaven and earth.

The passage actually reads...

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only"

Matthew 24:35-36

Amen and Amen

That site you referenced says that the number of the beast should be calculated using English gematria, rather than Hebrew or Greek. But what about someone who's name equals 666 using English, Hebrew and Greek gematria? That makes sense because it should be the Antichrist's language, the Hebrew's language, and the trade language of the day the Revelation was given, Greek.

Look at this theunholygodhead.com/Documents/The%20Prince%20Who%20Is%20To%20Come%20-%20Monte%20Judah.pdf

I say this with the hope that you will watch just as the Lord commanded.

-LvB-

I do no find the evidence from either site to be compelling and i agree with the conclusion of the site Ronald gave.

here is why

Evidence 1 fivedoves.com/rapture/2008/obama_666.htm

Take the four verses that are supposed to have 216 letters, there are only 215 letters...

search by verse number

biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.php?SearchBy_VerseNumber=9094

Note: biblewheel.com was the work of a preterist, who no longer believes the Gospel.


>>> theunholygodhead.com/Documents/The%20Prince%20Who%20Is%20To%20Come%20-%20Monte%20Judah.pdf

Monte Judah

I agree with most of your torah teachings and listen in on almost every Sabbath, but you can't drop a letter like W- Vav or Waw - and give it a Zero value and say that it is evidence.

Prince Charles of Wales is a title, his name is

Charles Philip Arthur George = 1610 in Hebrew Gematria

the transliteration of "Prince Charles of Wales" is definitely subjective

English to Hebrew

google/translate + numberman = 971

numberman.net/Hebrew_Gem_Calculator.html

also, had you given a link to your transliteration Monte, that would have been much appreciated.

Ebed

I have spoke with Monte in person and this subject came up and i can confirm he hasn't changed his mind.

+ charles is from the wrong country, and not from the horn that arose (USA) and subdued three of the 10 nations that arose from the head(western empire Dan 7:20) of the fourth beast

 

[Ebed]

Did the Architect of the whole universe orchestrate the dominant global language - English ?

A1 B2 C3 - Z26

YHWH - Yad 10 Hey 5 Waw 6 Hey 5 = 26 – Standard Hebrew

GOD G 7 + O 15 + D 4 = 26 – Standard English

YHWH 1+5+6+5 = 17

GOD 7+1+5+4 = 17

<><><><>

.Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom 83. Let 37 him that hath 37 understanding count 73 the number 73 of the beast 47, for it is the number 73 of a man, and his number 73 is Six hundred threescore and six.= 1451

The 1451st vs. Genesis 47:30 But I will lie with my fathers, and thou shalt carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their buryingplace. And he said, I will do as thou hast said. = 1318

W 23
I 9
S 19
D 4
O 15
M 13 = 83 2+3+9+1+9+4+1+5+1+3 = 38

The Standard and Ordinal values for wisdom/Hokmah in Hebrew gematria are 73 and 37

Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew = 2701 73x37 Bereshyt bara Elohiym ET hashamayim vet haeretz

Two Verses = 1318 in Genesis - Standard English in the KJV> The 1290th verse

Gen 42:37 And Reuben spake unto his father, saying, Slay my two sons, if I bring him not to thee: deliver him into my hand, and I will bring him to thee again. 1318

and the 1451st verse above.


<><><><>

Yeshua &#8211; Jesus = 153

Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an Hundred and Fifty and Three and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

The Kingdom of GOD 153 The House of Jacob 153 The Land of Goshen 153 Hebrew Aramaic Greek 153 "The Number of GOD" 153

The Children of GOD 153 "The Water of Life" 153 &#8220;The Good Ground&#8221; 153 "The Paradise of GOD" 153 "The Oracles of GOD" 153


"HE shall send them" 153 "Secret Wisdom" 153 "The Holy Word" 153 "Sealed Treasure" 153

"Rose of Sharon" 153 "The Whirlwind" 153 "Bow and Arrows" 153 Elijah Generation 153

"House of Israel" 153 "Water the sheep" 153 "The Revealed SON" 153 "Latter Glory" 153

&#8220;Creation Language&#8221; 153 &#8220;Language of Israel &#8221; 153 Original Language 153 The Last Signs 153 Plain English code 153

Wisdom-Proof 153 The Faith is a Verb 153 A Divine Sequence 153 The Golden Ratio 153 God&#8217;s Basic Gematria 153

Logos archives 153 Find the Truth 153 The Truth Gate 153 God&#8217;s Precision 153 Wisdom Archived 153

Encrypted manna 153 Encrypted K.J.V. 153 Signs of Israel 153 Valley of bones 153 Encoded of The Lord 153

A Sealed Puzzle 153 Teaching Mine Elect 153 The LORD&#8217;s Earth 153

The Deeper Evidence 153 The Sum Evidence 153 The Sabbath Evidence 153 Appointed Sabbath 153

Alpha - Jesus - Omega 153 Alpha - Messiah - Omega 153 His alphabet Door 153 Reveal Holy Bible 153 The Pyramid Inch 153

Numeric Proof 153 Numeric Secret 153 K.J.V. Prophetic 153 Messiah's Word 153 English Words 153

The Messianic Lamb 153 &#8220; I AM &#8221; The Holy place 153 Alphabet Messages 153 Teach this Word 153 The Christians 153 The Planet Earth 153

<><><><>

Sixteen Hundred Pennsylvania = 322

Military Industrial Complex = 322

March 22nd

Skull and Bones Yale secret number is 322

Did YHWH orchestrate the English language or was HE hands off, because we know already

Ah ADONAY YHWH! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: Jer 32:17

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

>>> theunholygodhead.com/Documents/The%20Prince%20Who%20Is%20To%20Come%20-%20Monte%20Judah.pdf

Monte Judah

I agree with most of your torah teachings and listen in on almost every Sabbath, but you can't drop a letter like W- Vav or Waw - and give it a Zero value and say that it is evidence.

Okay, to start with, W is NOT the equivalent to Vav or Waw. Yes, it makes the same sound, it is the grammatical equivalent, but we're talking numerical values here. A Hebrew letter's value is represented by it's position in the alephbet, not by the sound it makes. The reason W is given a value of 0 is because the Hebrew alephbet has only 22 letters, while the English alphabet has 26. Therefore, the last four letters of the English alphabet have no value.

Prince Charles of Wales is a title, his name is

Charles Philip Arthur George = 1610 in Hebrew Gematria

I'm not sure if this point is valid because it doesn't specify which name. His title is a name.

the transliteration of "Prince Charles of Wales" is definitely subjective

English to Hebrew

google/translate + numberman = 971

numberman.net/Hebrew_Gem_Calculator.html

You have mistakenly assumed that google's translate tool is accurate. I translated "Prince Charles of Wales" into Hebrew using that tool and I see some problems already. First, you will notice the first letter, on the right, is "Heh" which means "the". So the translation is already messed up by calling him "The Prince Charles of Wales". Second, it spells "Wales", waw-yod-yod-lamed-samech, which has two yods in a row, which does not make sense. Thirdly, Monte Judah got his transliteration by looking at how the Israeli press spells Prince Charles' name in the newspapers. They spell it "Nasich Charles Mem Wales" spelled in Hebrew letters, of course. That title just happens to equal 666.

also, had you given a link to your transliteration Monte, that would have been much appreciated.

As you can see above, I have taken the liberty of telling you where he got his transliteration.

-LvB-

 

[JLB777]

I know many people have spoken about the End of Days and the Return of the Lord, and some may have spoken about what I am about to say, but I have to say it anyway.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone that there is no pre-trib rapture. We are going through the tribulation. And I pray that none of you will fall away from the faith when you find out your in the middle of it, not raptured. But if we are going through the tribulation we will need to be ready.

I did NOT come up with this information myself.

For the timing of the tribulation, please look here:

Daniels Timeline Home

I certainly hope you will read and understand this article, as important as it is.

It's a shame there is so much non sense propagated in the name of "important truth" these days, which all stems from not knowing God's word!

Jesus said -

"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), ... For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.


...such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time,

JLB

 

[Jipsah]

Did the Architect of the whole universe orchestrate the dominant global language - English ?

Of course. God speaks English in Heaven, don'tcha know? (Probably because He's an American.)

BTW, Architect of the Universe? You done took up with the Freemasons?

And I do so love gematria (or whatever the pseudo-religious term for numeromancy is). It's just another form of witch-doctory, and would be equally as predictive if all the numbers used were ground out by a random number algorithm.

 

[Ebed]

Okay, to start with, W is NOT the equivalent to Vav or Waw. Yes, it makes the same sound, it is the grammatical equivalent, but we're talking numerical values here. A Hebrew letter's value is represented by it's position in the alephbet, not by the sound it makes. The reason W is given a value of 0 is because the Hebrew alephbet has only 22 letters, while the English alphabet has 26. Therefore, the last four letters of the English alphabet have no value.

I'm not sure if this point is valid because it doesn't specify which name. His title is a name.

another title is The Prince of Wales

you are partially correct, the ordinal method is position in alphabet 1-22 Hebrew, the Standard increases by 10 from Yad by 100 at Kuf

My Point being if you are going from English to Hebrew, you can not Ignore that the English has four letters your system does not account for...the system is not equivalent as i see it....those last four letters should increase in 100 increments 500-800 to remain consistent.

You have mistakenly assumed that google's translate tool is accurate. I translated "Prince Charles of Wales" into Hebrew using that tool and I see some problems already. First, you will notice the first letter, on the right, is "Heh" which means "the". So the translation is already messed up by calling him "The Prince Charles of Wales". Second, it spells "Wales", waw-yod-yod-lamed-samech, which has two yods in a row, which does not make sense. Thirdly, Monte Judah got his transliteration by looking at how the Israeli press spells Prince Charles' name in the newspapers. They spell it "Nasich Charles Mem Wales" spelled in Hebrew letters, of course. That title just happens to equal 666.

Earlier in this thread i posted that Barry Soetoro was 501 and Barack Hussein Obama was 500 using google translate / different from the Hebrew Scholars translation which had an Aleph that google had missed so both names are 501= Google is not the last word

As you can see above, I have taken the liberty of telling you where he got his transliteration.

-LvB-

&#1504;&#1505;&#1497;&#1499; &#1510;&#1512;&#1500;&#1505; &#1502;&#1493;&#1497;&#1500;&#1505; Monte's transliteration search google

&#1502;&#1493;&#1497;&#1500;&#1505; 146&#1510;&#1512;&#1500;&#1505;380&#1504;&#1505;&#1497;&#1499;140 reference

Results - Charles, Prince of Wales &#1510;'&#1488;&#1512;&#1500;&#1505;, &#1504;&#1505;&#1497;&#1498; &#1493;&#1497;&#1497;&#1500;&#1505; = 637 wiki Hebrew and every other site that i found using this title.

&#1493;&#1497;&#1497;&#1500;&#1505;116 &#1504;&#1505;&#1497;&#1498;140&#1510;'&#1488;&#1512;&#1500;&#1505;381 reference

I can not find a transliteration that equals 666, had Monte provided a link, since i don't think he is making this up, then His interpretation could be tested...until then people make mistakes

Maybe you can find the source...

 

[Ebed]

Of course. God speaks English in Heaven, don'tcha know? (Probably because He's an American.)

BTW, Architect of the Universe? You done took up with the Freemasons?

And I do so love gematria (or whatever the pseudo-religious term for numeromancy is). It's just another form of witch-doctory, and would be equally as predictive if all the numbers used were ground out by a random number algorithm.

English is the International Language, that is a fact ! Not just for AmeriKa

Hebrew is the language in Heaven, the Pure Language Zephaniah 3:8-9, vs 8 is the ONLY VERSE in the Hebrew Scriptures that has all 22 letters and 5 final forms in ONE VERSE.

by your definition YHWH, the Arche/Resh = Origin, Beginning, Head - The Architect of the Universe is guilty of numeromancy for telling us, Here is Wisdom... count the number...Rev 13:18

another form of witch-doctory you say

the rest is your opinion and you have no say on what YHWH is allowed to do

Then you say those who believe what He says to do are guilty of numeromancy

try convincing YHWH you are right... HAHA

 

[Ebed]

The Hebrew is far better than the English

B&#8217;reshyt - Bet Resh Aleph Shin Yad Taw &#8211; The first six letters of Torah that spell the phrase. &#8220; In the beginning&#8221;

Concurrent consecutive pictograph word etymology of the first 6 letters in ancient Hebrew

ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Pictograms/pictograms.html

Bet_ The Pictograph (P.) is a House and when Bet prefixes a word - In, by, on

Bet-Resh the first two letters of the scripture together spell Bar - Son H1247 &#8211; P. head of man Resh - *First

The First three letters together Bet-Resh-Aleph spell Bara - Created H1254 the second word in the scriptures - P. Ox - Strength

House Son Created > Resh-Aleph-Shin spells Resh or Rosh - Head, *Beginning H7218

Shin_Sharp, Press, Two &#8211;H8127 P. Two Teeth, the Root is H8150 c. Pierce

Shin-Yad_Shay &#8211; Gift, Present H7862 P. Arm &#8211; Work

Shin Yad Taw - shyt(h) &#8211; Set, Appointed H7896 P. Cross &#8211; Sign

In beginning House Son created, two arm gift appointed cross
-
Hebrews 1:8-10, John 1:3, Col 2:16 &#8211; YESHUA

&#1512;&#1461;&#1488;&#1513;&#1460;&#1473;&#1497;&#1514; Resh Aleph Shin Yad Taw &#8211; reshyt &#8211; *Beginning, Firstfruits H7225

&#1488;&#1513;&#1460;&#1473; Aleph Shin = esh &#8211; Fire, burning H784 <&#1488;&#1513;&#1460;&#1473;&#1497;> Yad &#8211;Shin, Yesh Exist, is, be H3426

Aleph &#8211; Taw = ET > the First and Last

First three letters

Bet > Bar > Son

Resh> Ruach > Spirit

Aleph > Ab > Father Aleph Bet > Strength House

B&#8217;reshyt bara Elohiym ET haShamayim w-et haErets

Hebrew Pictograph of &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; YHWH is Arm Behold Nail Behold

HalleluYAH

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

I see that people are discussing what language the name should be calculated in. I believe it should be calculated in three languages.

Hebrew, the language of God.
English, the language of the world today and most likely of the antrichrist.
Greek, the language in which the book of Revelation was written.

I know that people say the transliteration of the name "Prince Charles of Wales" is subjective, but isn't it a big coincidence that it equals 666 in english, hebrew and greek? Or maybe, just maybe, it is not a coincidence.