Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
LOL, this came from way out in left field....
Who mentioned anything about killing anyway?
If you knew two and two were four, would you still ask me to demonstrate it to you?
And atheists wonder why they have certain stigmas attached to them.....
)And atheists wonder why they have certain stigmas attached to them.....
Oh, you are already past the arguments and replacing them by personal attacks? You left out the excessive preaching that typically preceeds your melt-downs.
It sounds like more than an opinion. You are taking a position as well. Thats what I dont get. People will say that subjectivity allows for many views and each person has a right to believe and see things their way. All views are valid and there is no absolute single truth. Then at the same time someone can claim to know the truth of a matter and state that another person is wrong and they are right then qualify it all under subjectivity by says, " its just my opinion". That sounds like your trying to have a bet each way. As I said I believe deep down we all believe that there has to be some sort of objectivity because relativism is silly and doesn't work. We all react the same way when we are wronged no matter what we believe.
Because I am not relying on my own views about morality. You and humanity is relying on their views and we know that humans are fallible. They cannot know everything and therefore will get it wrong. God knows all and in Jesus we have an example who did not sin. So there was no morally wrong in Jesus. Because of this He is just and worthy to be sitting in Judgement. God made the laws of right and wrong because He is God the creator of everything.
I dont think its as black and white as that. Maths will not threaten my life. If we are in a situation where our family is going to be killed what do we do. If you dont act then you are actually committing a greater immoral deed by not protecting life. It doesn't mean you automatically lash out and kill someone to protect them. You may run or you may try and disarm them if you are sure. Or injure them but that is still going against a moral of not harming life. But if you ended up having to fight and the result was you killed someone this is not killing in the sense of an intention in your conscience of wanting to take a life as a wrong. So you are not guilty of breaking this moral like it is intended to be. I think this is clear for anyone to see that wants to know the truth. Its the truth we are looking at and the true intentions and motives of what constitutes a right and a wrong.
We are actually talking about whether that moral has one true strict meaning to make it objective. In my example of another greater moral being allowed to compromise this still maintains that one true strict meaning. So the moral only has one meaning. That to me is absolute. What happens with people coming up with many different views about what and when they think they can breach that moral is talking about their views only. It is humans views and not qualified with a greater moral truth to allow them to compromise the moral absolute. Just because they have views and their own personal interpretations as to when you can breach a moral doesn't make it the moral subjective. It just means human views are subjective towards a moral that is always the same. The qualification for the moral to be breached is Gods version not humans and only another one of Gods morals which can cause a greater moral wrong can compromise that. That to me is pretty clear and strict. There isn't much room to move.
So what happens to the other moral of not allowing the killer to take the life of your family. Wont you be guilty of a greater wrong. The morals have crossed paths and thats the only time. It has to be. That doesn't make them subjective because you have allowed this one other situation which is also related to the same set of moral truths. It has suddenly opened the door for the many human views or subjectivity. So its not subjective. It would be subjective if it did allow for many human views. But it qualifies itself and its clear. But this is what happens with subjectivism. It latches onto a single allowance and turns that into opening the door for any and all. This is why you always hear the arguments of well if they can do it so can I. We know that two wrongs dont make a right. But the basis for most of the allowances for subjectivity is not on truth. Its on making a case for personal opinion. Right according to me and not God.
Thats the problem we should have a measure. Otherwise we are headed for disaster. Thats why people and groups can get away with all sorts of things. If you open the door for one view you have to open it for all. I believe we do have the measure and its in all of us. Like I said we say one thing but we react in another. We all basically act the same when we are wronged no matter what we profess. But we distort Gods truth with man made versions and justifications. Anyone that can make a good enough case will get their version across the line. Humanism and worldly views promote pluralism. But the ironic thing is we all put restrictions on some things because it has got out of hand by subjective allowances. Most of the basic wrongs in Gods laws like stealing and killing are in human laws. We dont allow stealing no matter what people think. So in some ways this is objective with our society. But we have a 1001 rules and regulations and legislation's throughout society that practically make us like puppets. We thing we have the freedom to express our lives but we are actually slaves to it.
I believe it is a SUBJECTIVE moral truth. I'm trying to get you to back up your claim that it is an objective moral truth.
Yes there is a lot of confusion. Thats why I think it can be hard to pin down a clear and simple meaning. Thats why I personally believe that we need to have a set of morals that we can trust and turn to that will help us united and make it clear about what is good and bad. It just makes sense so everyone is on the same page and it stops all the silly stuff that people try to get away with.
