jamesMarion said:
Yes, but do you or don't you believe that a sinner has to believe that Jesus died for his sins before he can be saved from them?
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jamesMarion said:Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.
Amen, my brother.jamesMarion said:Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.
vanshan said:There is a lot of push to break all ties with the World Council of Churches, in fact, the Antiochian Archdiocese of America, the second or third largest branch of Orthodoxy in the U.S., recently voted unanimously to leave the WCC. It have proven fruitless to be involved in it.
Basil
I have not seen your first post but with this post you have shown me that you truely understand.jamesMarion said:Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.
jamesMarion said:In my opinion the only thing wrong with the sinner's prayer is asking the candidate to feel sorry for their sins. Emotions are a non-issue. What you think about Jesus Christ is the issue. I changed my mind about the fact that "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh; and that He died for my sins" and "poof" I was / still am saved. No water; thank you.
seekingpurity047 said:Indeed, believing alone doesn't have the power to transform us, however... God alone has the power to transform us. We do not transform ourselves, but it is God who does it. He grants repentance, He saves, He does all the work. Therefore, salvation is by faith alone, because God does it all. Once we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably desire to cherish Christ and desire to follow His commandments.
Melethiel said:Absolutely true. The article is a bit misleading, however, in trying to link it to Luther. Ever notice how he seems to be the scapegoat for issues not even remotely related to him?
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nephilimiyr said:I understand what you're saying and it should be noted here that the sinners prayer is not written in stone. In others words, the sinners prayer should be improvised.
Asking the candidate to feel sorry for his sins seems silly to me because it's the conviction of the Holy Spirit working inside the persons heart that should have already made the person feel sorry for his sins in the first place. Whether the person acknowledges this or not isn't an issue with me. The change in the person afterwards is what I'm concerned with.
People feeling sorry for their sins should not be suppressed and in fact is a natural response to the conviction of the Holy Spirit in them. I just don't see how you can get around this.
holdon said:Isn't it only pharisees that question the sinner's prayer?
Luke 18:9
And he spoke also to some, who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and made nothing of all the rest of men, this parable:
18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer.
18:11 The Pharisee, standing, prayed thus to himself: God, I thank thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain. 18:13 And the tax-gatherer, standing afar off, would not lift up even his eyes to heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, O God, have compassion on me, the sinner.
18:14 I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than that other. For every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.
I don't necessarily say it's wrong to question a person on the issue of guilt, all I'm saying is that if the Holy Spirit has truely convicted the person of guilt then we shouldn't have to ask them to feel sorry for their sinful life because they will already be feeling sorry for it.woobadooba said:Well, we do live in a society that is, for the most part, founded on the philosophical tenets of moral relativism.
Therefore, it does seem appropriate in a sense to address the issue of guilt. For, if one doesn't understand the nature of sin, how could he ever come to appreciate what Christ has done for all humankind through His great sacrifice?
In fact, it is usually people who don't feel sorry for their sins as such that they look for ways to justify them by Christ's blood, who think they just have to believe in what Christ did for them, and that is as far as their salvation goes. Hence, they are saved, and Christ's atoning work is finished. But this isn't true.
For, there is much more to salvation than just being saved from the guilt of past sins. Jesus literally wants to save us from sin itself.
So I don't necessarily agree that it would be wrong to question a person on the issue of guilt for sin before asking him if he would like to receive Jesus Christ into his heart. For, such questions serve to inform the sinner that he should not take his relationship with God lightly.
If we are His children He doesn't walk away from us.Gal328 said:1. The reason why I alwayse make an ephasis on sincerity is that I myself have walked away from God. And I am currently going through my Hell right now.
Well, in the book of Acts they baptized one on his confession of faith and they turned out to have been wrong about it. See Acts 8.2. I generally could tell if someone is being sincere when they pray or make thier dicision of faith, if I am in the same room with them.
Gods Revenger said:I remember how a christian woman in my church, whom I spoke with about some things that bothered me and where on my mind, wanted me to repeat after her by use of the sinner's prayer! That was NOT what I felt because I was already saved by His grace and mercy and I do not believe in saying a certain prayer that is not from the heart and/or doesn't remotely pertain to your current circumstances! I felt very insulted and ignored. People who do this are saying empty and meaningless words, which I gurantee you the Father aint even trying to hear that!
Sorry that I seem a bit 'hype' about this topic but I strongly disagree with the sinner's prayer. If it's not from the heart, DON'T SAY IT.
vanshan said:I would first warn them, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21)
vanshan said:I would them to submit to the guidance of the Church, which Christ heads. The Lord sent His Apostles telling them: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), so I would encourage them to listen to the Church's guidance and prescriptions for sin, because through life in the Church, God provides His Grace which saves us.
Oblio said:You are also seemingly unaware that Orthodox do not subscribe to the doctrine of transubstantiation.
NHB_MMA said:Wow, I'm unaware too. I thought sure that Orthodox subscribed to transubstantiation.
holdon said:If we are His children He doesn't walk away from us. Well, in the book of Acts they baptized one on his confession of faith and they turned out to have been wrong about it. See Acts 8.
There is nothing wrong with judging one based on the evidence of his walk/work and his confession. But it is definitely wrong to judge anybody's heart, when the confession is there. Leave that up to God.
pjw said:the easy-believism promoted by the "sinner's prayer" is wrong. it places a de-emphasis on sanctification and ongoing conforming to the will of God, and an emphasis on "accepting Jesus," "making a decision for Christ," and "once saved, always saved." the gospel taught by the sinner's prayer and those who use it is actually a badspel, not "once saved, always saved," but "once made your own free-will decision to received Jesus in your heart without any real spiritual renewing by the Holy Spirit, once set yourself on the path to false security, not eternal security."
i'm not saying that there haven't been people in whom God has used the sinner's prayer to convict them of sin and turn them to Him, but in many cases, it's just an outward act, another person following the crowd at the revival meeting with the sentimental music and play on the emotions, another person lulled into a sense of false security by a badspel of "you're good enough, make a decision for Christ, and you're secure, guaranteed of eternal life."
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