The single biggest problem with the education system.

[OldWiseGuy]

Teach the world once again that the inmates do not run the asylum like they have done since that advent of the internet??

But that isn't true; they do run the asylum.

 

[timothyu]

But that isn't true; they do run the asylum.

Hence the alternate Kingdom

 

[RDKirk]

I learned how to spell and to write some words from my older brother before I even went to school (it didn't help my penmanship however, which is still lousy).

I gave up penmanship in the 7th grade, as soon as cursive was no longer a requirement.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

There is no requirement to learn anything. The only requirement is to show up for class.

I remember one (of several) Army instructor who addressed my 'Surveying' class. Except for the sergeant stripes on his sleeves he was dressed in rumpled green fatigues like the rest of us. He was jovial as he introduced himself with bit of self-effacing humor, a crazy right eye that looked off to the side added to his decidedly unserious introduction.

Then he turned to his desk and retrieved some surveying study material, holding it up for all to see. Upon turning around his demeanor had changed to deadly seriousness as he proclaimed to us, "Gentlemen...you will learn this stuff."

And learn it we did.

I would say the biggest issue is the family. My kids have been in public education their entire life and my wife substitutes teaches in the same school system. In my opinion 90% of the reason kids do not learn or achieve in school is that their family situation is bad in some way. No drill instructor will be able to make a child learn if their home life is terrible. teachers and administrators often get the blame for kids not learning but they cannot do anything about a childs home life.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I would say the biggest issue is the family. My kids have been in public education their entire life and my wife substitutes teaches in the same school system. In my opinion 90% of the reason kids do not learn or achieve in school is that their family situation is bad in some way. No drill instructor will be able to make a child learn if their home life is terrible. teachers and administrators often get the blame for kids not learning but they cannot do anything about a childs home life.

I believe that is true as well. Therefore it is the duty of the educational system to teach the kids how to not make the same mistakes their parents made. It's the only way to correct this problem for future generations.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I believe that is true as well. Therefore it is the duty of the educational system to teach the kids how to not make the same mistakes their parents made. It's the only way to correct this problem for future generations.

I am not a big fan of that. Some home situations are caused by illness, financial situations etc. I would not want the government schools to turn a kid against their parents. Access to counselling of all types would be beneficial for the kid and family. There is not one solution for the problem.

 

[timothyu]

School systems teach kids first and foremost to conform to the system, regardless of whose it is. Failures of the parents to do so themselves thus influencing the child, or even a natural rebellious streak in said child will create waves.(although we need a few free thinkers to keep the 80%of followers and 1% of leaders in check) Also today's age of self entitlement brought on by the internet and other media has reduced the concept of taking responsibility for ones own future.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am not a big fan of that. Some home situations are caused by illness, financial situations etc. I would not want the government schools to turn a kid against their parents. Access to counselling of all types would be beneficial for the kid and family. There is not one solution for the problem.

Illness and poverty shouldn't be a cause of lack of moral teaching in the home. Also there is always friction between what parents believe and what is taught to their children in school. Especially today when students are taught to question everything, which of course leads to a perpetual state of general confusion.

 

[RDKirk]

Illness and poverty shouldn't be a cause of lack of moral teaching in the home. Also there is always friction between what parents believe and what is taught to their children in school. Especially today when students are taught to question everything, which of course leads to a perpetual state of general confusion.

I think the problem there is division of both purpose and social contact between parents and teachers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think the problem there is division of both purpose and social contact between parents and teachers.

The school system probably hasn't been an endearing experience for most graduates, therefore the reticence to become involved as parents. So they leave their kids at the mercy of the system, content to deal with problems as they arise.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Illness and poverty shouldn't be a cause of lack of moral teaching in the home.

There is a lot more to a kids behavior than just teaching them morals. When a kids home is affected by illness they can be taught good morals and such but that will still affect their behavior in class. Do you really think that an 8 year old whose mother is dying cares about what they are learning in class? It is understandable that they may not want to learn or participate etc.

Also there is always friction between what parents believe and what is taught to their children in school.

That is the parents responsibility to teach their child what they want to teach them and get involved in the schools curriculum if need be.

Especially today when students are taught to question everything, which of course leads to a perpetual state of general confusion.

We should be teaching our children to have good reasons for their belief and how to come to these good reasons on their own. I don't care if my children have different beliefs than I do as long as they have good reasons for them.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

School systems teach kids first and foremost to conform to the system, regardless of whose it is.

This is untrue. What do you consider the system? There are good and bad schools, parents need to explore and find the good school systems.

Also today's age of self entitlement brought on by the internet and other media has reduced the concept of taking responsibility for ones own future.

I think this is overstated. Most teens feel entitled throughout the last 100 years. It is true that my childhood was very different than my children's; however, I see positives in the younger generation. They are generally more tolerant of differences in people, less racist, more community focused, have less peer pressure, are more activist, less concerned about possessions, have more compassion for others etc than my generation (I was a teen in the 80's). At least this is what I see from my kids and their friends.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I think the problem there is division of both purpose and social contact between parents and teachers.

I see many Christians leaving the public school system and then trashing it (usually without merit). If a Christians really wanted to make things better in their public education system they could get involved but far too often I see them pulling out. That is their right but don't trash the place as you leave. My two cents.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is a lot more to a kids behavior than just teaching them morals. When a kids home is affected by illness they can be taught good morals and such but that will still affect their behavior in class. Do you really think that an 8 year old whose mother is dying cares about what they are learning in class? It is understandable that they may not want to learn or participate etc.

That is an extreme example.

That is the parents responsibility to teach their child what they want to teach them and get involved in the schools curriculum if need be.

Serious parent involvement usually indicates that a serious problem needs to be addressed. Teachers are usually helpless to address these problems.

We should be teaching our children to have good reasons for their belief and how to come to these good reasons on their own. I don't care if my children have different beliefs than I do as long as they have good reasons for them.

Children should have a good reason to stray from the tried and true, especially when it comes to morality. Life isn't really that complicated that kids have to agonize over moral questions.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

That is an extreme example.

Yes and it happens everyday.

Serious parent involvement usually indicates that a serious problem needs to be addressed. Teachers are usually helpless to address these problems.

I agree. The teachers should not have the burden of having to. Some parents are just terrible, I don't have a solution for that if they are not breaking any laws.

Children should have a good reason to stray from the tried and true, especially when it comes to morality.

Children should have a good reason for believing the tried and true. Teach children what is behind morality, how we come to moral beliefs and they will understand.

Life isn't really that complicated that kids have to agonize over moral questions.

Teaching kids that they should think for themselves and to teach them how to think for themselves is not agony but part of being a responsible person. Of course there is age appropriate teaching. When they are young you have to have rules imposed on them but as they get older you teach them why there are the rules and the reasons behind them. So when they are on their own they can reason their own morals and come to responsible and moral decisions. Absolute moral systems are evil in my opinion, situational morals are compassionate.

 

[timothyu]

This is untrue. What do you consider the system?

The ol' team player ploy where the team still has to follow and not question the head over the team

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

The ol' team player ploy where the team still has to follow and not question the head over the team

Huh? This makes little sense to me. When a child/person is learning something they don't know from another they ask questions until they understand. How is this somehow wrong? I know of no teachers that don't allow questions in their classroom.

 

[timothyu]

I know of no teachers that don't allow questions in their classroom.

Are they directed in a certain direction, especially where authority is concerned?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Are they directed in a certain direction, especially where authority is concerned?

how so? What is your concern?

 

[timothyu]

how so? What is your concern?

What is the purpose of any system making people over in their own image?