The single biggest problem with the education system.

[OldWiseGuy]

This is my point. Reasoned humanistic morality is more ethical and compassionate than following commands that you think come from a god.

Society is a mess thanks largely to humanistic morality.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

People confuse slavery of those days with slavery in the minds of US'ers. Slavery in old days was to pay off a debt or as a punishment for a crime (something that existed into the early days of the last century in many places), and yes as the spoils of war. Slaves often became close to their master as part of a household. With slavery in the US there was no indebtedness, just a hostile capture that was not even the spoils of a war.

Read Deuteronomy. Slaves were taken by force from other nations and owners could beat them as long as they did not die within 2-3 days or damage their eye. It was not this nice debt slavery a lot of Christians espouse for non Hebrews.

Prisons to today enslave those accused of crimes and use them for labour. The old concept never died.

Prisoners are not slaves. They are wards of the government that are being punished for a crime after due process has been given.

 

[timothyu]

You say children get raped because god thinks they deserve it because of their sin. Is this right?

No I don't say that as we have the capability of protecting a child. But it is man who chooses to serve self (over selflessness) and rape anyone. Eve chose to serve herself in deciding to eat of the tree and we've done it ever since. God said no, but like with a child we must learn from our experiences. But the choice is there. Unfortunately man also like so self justify actions by self determining the definition of good and evil, so not only do some self justify their acts but also the victim often becomes victim twice because man would rather blame the woman than the man by self defining the woman's guilt.

 

[timothyu]

Slaves were taken by force from other nations

As I said

Prisoners are not slaves. They are wards of the government that are being punished for a crime after due process has been given.

Yet still are forced to work for others for reduced time or minimal gain. Today's privatized prisons are factories. Does the education system teach that? It seems to like to teach all must obey the system yet frowns on anyone speaking out on how the system is abused..

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No I don't say that as we have the capability of protecting a child. But it is man who chooses to serve self (over selflessness) and rape anyone. Eve chose to serve herself in deciding to eat of the tree and we've done it ever since. God said no, but like with a child we must learn from our experiences. But the choice is there. Unfortunately man also like so self justify actions by self determining the definition of good and evil, so not only do some self justify their acts but also the victim often becomes victim twice because man would rather blame the woman than the man by self defining the woman's guilt.

this does not answer the question why god does not stop heinous things from happening to people through no fault of their own. If god exists he is responsible for all that happens. He sits there and watches children get molested and worse and does nothing to stop it when he alone has that power. Most people would put a stop to that if they could. Trying to shift the blame to man does not cut it. Is he all powerful and living or not?

 

[timothyu]

Trying to shift the blame to man does not cut it. Is he all powerful and living or not?

But man is to blame, not God. We broke the system. If you are concerned why not start a dialogue with Him instead of us here.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

As I said


Yet still are forced to work for others for reduced time or minimal gain.

that is not slavery. And a process for their restriction was accomplished.

Today's privatized prisons are factories. Does the education system teach that? It seems to like to teach all must obey the system yet frowns on anyone speaking out on how the system is abused..

no where in the public school system have I ever heard anyone teach that the abuses by our justice system should not be questioned. My daughter wrote an essay against the death penalty and was never told she was wrong, we live in Texas.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

this does not answer the question why god does not stop heinous things from happening to people through no fault of their own. If god exists he is responsible for all that happens. He sits there and watches children get molested and worse and does nothing to stop it when he alone has that power. Most people would put a stop to that if they could. Trying to shift the blame to man does not cut it. Is he all powerful and living or not?

God is allowing us to experience the results of our choices, namely human government over divine government. Why would God protect a people that turns it's back on the very laws God has ordained that would protect it?

It is we who sit and watch while our children get molested, not God.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

But man is to blame, not God. We broke the system. If you are concerned why not start a dialogue with Him instead of us here.

no the system was rigged for us, I never had a chance to live a sinless life. I was sinful before birth.

I tried for 15 years when I was a Christian. If he would have just shown himself once I may still be a Christian. You claim god exists so give me sufficient evidence. I have never seen any.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

no the system was rigged for us, I never had a chance to live a sinless life. I was sinful before birth.

I tried for 15 years when I was a Christian. If he would have just shown himself once I may still be a Christian. You claim god exists so give me sufficient evidence. I have never seen any.

Perhaps you weren't called by God. Many desire to be part of the church without actually being called.

 

[timothyu]

that is not slavery. And a process for their restriction was accomplished.

As it was in biblical times

 

[timothyu]

I never had a chance to live a sinless life. I was sinful before birth.

No one does. It is our animal nature that we try to keep in check. We are hybrids, flesh and spirit. A cat or a dog can be domesticated but their instincts are still intact and they too can bite or scratch out of instinctive behaviour. We are to consciously rise above that. Sit. Heel. Chose.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Perhaps you weren't called by God. Many desire to be part of the church without actually being called.

ok. I’m out then. I’m actually free to be a good person now anyway.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

As it was in biblical times

nope. There was no justice for non Hebrews slaves. They could be taken by force and enslaved by the Hebrews then beaten as long as they don’t die in a few days. Not remotely the same as modern prisons.

 

[timothyu]

nope. There was no justice for non Hebrews slaves. They could be taken by force and enslaved by the Hebrews then beaten as long as they don’t die in a few days. Not remotely the same as modern prisons.

I was referring to criminals. You flipped to other examples.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No one does. It is our animal nature that we try to keep in check. We are hybrids, flesh and spirit. A cat or a dog can be domesticated but their instincts are still intact and they too can bite or scratch out of instinctive behaviour. We are to consciously rise above that. Sit. Heel. Chose.

there is no evidence a spirit or soul exists. Not any sufficient evidence to believe a god exists or that the Bible true. Justifying your gods immoral actions is common among Christians, I did this as well.

 

[timothyu]

Justifying your gods immoral actions is common among Christians, I did this as well.

Actually the problem from the start was man justifying our immoral actions. Look at the evening news. We reap what we sow.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

ok. I’m out then. I’m actually free to be a good person now anyway.

"Many are called but few are chosen."

However all are free to exercise their natural goodness. The church doesn't claim to be the only repository of good. In the words of the late Ann Landers, "The church is a hospital for sinners, not an edifice for saints."

Christians know they are sinners. Others not so much.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Actually the problem from the start was man justifying our immoral actions. Look at the evening news. We reap what we sow.

you keep avoiding the point. I have no problem with people reaping consequences of their actions. My problem is people reaping terrible consequences of others actions they do not deserve such as child rape, your god watches and does nothing.

 

[timothyu]

our god watches and does nothing.

Who still has the ultimate authourity here for now?