The sin of gluttony

[drich0150]

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[FONT=&quot]No, what I said was anchoring your morals to the past is. If we didn’t let go of the past we would still be living in the dark ages, progress requires change what is confusing about this?[/FONT]

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I'm not sure because I have explained That God gave these commands and they were not "rules" created to govern an ancient civilization.

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[FONT=&quot]Who has the power to sanction the killing?[/FONT]

Who killed Christ? (The roman government) God said that He put all governments in power and gave them the authority to govern themselves. This means it is OK for them to make war and to execute prisioners[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]If you say God then how does he let us know?[/FONT]

The bible.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] As far as I am aware God’s voice has never sounded in a court room before the death penalty was given.[/FONT]

Who gave the court the ability to issue the death penalty?

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[FONT=&quot]So we aren’t really debating anything are we? I thought you were saying we need absolute moral rules such as ‘do not kill’.[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is what you believe my argument says. I'm trying to help you understand what i am actually saying. In the case of Murder (the unsanctioned taking of Human life) It is always wrong. However not every "killing" is murder.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Your point is that you don’t need to even know the commandments in order to be moral? I think that is my point, that we are inherently moral![/FONT]

I also separated God's righteousness from "man's morality." God's righteousness can never be obtained by man. Man's "morality" was an attempt to achieve God's righteousness +/- the sins he is willing to live with. Morality is not righteousness. Morality is what we call our version of god's righteousness. In a sense all men are moral because All men justify their actions.

Do you believe the Nazi's thought themselves to be "immoral?"

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[FONT=&quot]I would see your point if you couldn’t plainly see what is written in the Bible. God orders the genocide of entire cities, every man woman and child as just one example. [/FONT]

Again you miss the segregation between God's righteousness and man's morality. you are attempting to judge God's righteousness by your own version of morality.. So of course their is a discrepancy. What I find ironic that most of you all (all who think this way) do not see is that you are using the very same approach to judgment that God uses, but without absolutely no authority. In other words you are judging the actions of another (Like God would) but without the power or authority to do so. And when you run up on God's authority to do so, you question it, but not your own actions or deeds that mirror His.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I agree it is society that dictates the moral code of the age, which is exactly why morals have changed from biblical times and why anchoring your morals to the past doesn’t allow for improvement. Improvement because clearly western society is advancing, which means you are choosing to ignore the out-dated parts of the bible.[/FONT]

Such as?
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[FONT=&quot]Because it is an impossible question to answer.[/FONT]

Then allow me. Because you are, or have subjected yourself to the morality of popular culture without question. Because of this it is most likely that no matter what popular culture will dictate you will fall in without question. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]You seem to want to dismiss or ignore all that would contest "modern society." I would guess Even if that "Modern Society" was apart of the Third Reich. Because if all you can base your "morality" on is your peers then it would follow that if your peers were Nazis then you too would be a Nazi. How else do you think an entire nation of people that span the whole Continent of Europe 1/3 of Asia and parts of North Africa took power?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]How could I know how I would have behaved?[/FONT]

By objectively looking at your current behavior ques, and drawing parallels between the two societies.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] and It was a terrible event in German history, which was largely acted by Christians. [/FONT]

As I pointed out it wasn't just Germany. Christianity had nothing to do with Hitler's plans. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In fact Hitler often played on the Christian prejudice felt to wards Jews (for killing Jesus) to rally hatred against them. [/FONT]

Actually no. Hitler came to power because Germany was under a chrushing debt that they were made to pay from the first world war. They paid this debt to banks in Europe. Most of which were owned and controlled by Jews. Whether their was impropriety or not the general consensus was that the Jewish held banks were keeping Germany in a debt that they could never repay. This spawned the hatred to wards the Jews. The hate the Germans had was from a 20 year "great depression" that the whole of the country suffered from.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Does this point the finger of blame to wards Christians? NO! It suggests to me that morals can be altered, so it is societies responsibility to maintain the moral code of the time. [/FONT]

Using what? The only reason You can look back and decipher the actions of the Nazi's as bad is because an opposing society won the conflict. (that is if you do not have a standard like we have in the bible.)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]For example what if the bible was written by Nazi-minded individuals 2000 years ago? [/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]The bible was written by God.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Would that mean we should follow it? [/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]If God wrote the bible Yes.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Or would you suggest using common sense to see that it is wrong? [/FONT]

Again if your version of common sense can only be derived from your peers then you are locked into popular culture to define what "common sense" is.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I prefer the latter and prefer it if individuals think for themselves.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]But that's just it.. You are NOT thinking for yourself. You are thinking what your neighbors are telling you to think.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]..[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Quite an average person, yet even I can see the immorality in the bible.[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Because "morality" is a subjective term. Just like the Nazi's found themselves to be moral, you too have found yourself to be moral. Now because you have convinced yourself of your morality, all that oppose your morality has to be deemed "evil." Even God.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Why can’t you?[/FONT]

Because my "morality" is not derived from my own sense of righteousness nor the righteousness of my peers.[/FONT]
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Why do you choose to ignore the terrible crimes committed by God

Just because "you" (some average guy) label something you do not understand a "crime" does not make it one.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]and reinterpret anything you can plainly see is outdated?[/FONT]

What have I reinterpreted?
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[FONT=&quot]What moral guidance has God given us?[/FONT]

You are not using this term correctly. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God has given us His expressed righteousness in the bible.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]His own actions are terrible in the bible and he hasn’t updated any of his rules on slavery [/FONT]

Because slavery is not a sin. How you treat a slave can be. We are all slaves to one degree or another, it just has become unpopular to admit it. as such there must be rules to govern slavery (even though "we" do not like to admit our slavery.)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]or homosexual rights [/FONT]

Because Homosexuality is a sin, one like any other. "sinners" do not have rights. They have or can have atonement for their sins.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]or even equality for women. [/FONT]

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Women have a tremendous role to play in the cohesion of our society. If we eliminate this role, then the Family God established fails. If your goal is the destruction of the family then blurring the roles between men and women is the way to do it. Since God does not want the family unit he establish to fail, he has no reason to "update" this rule.

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[FONT=&quot]If all of our morals came from God he has been a bit late in letting us know the new order, so humans have done it for themselves.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]Is there any evil in heaven? [/FONT]

Nope.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Do we have free will in heaven?[/FONT]

We have freedom of choice but we do not have the ability to sin.[/FONT]
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Do angels have free will?

at one point they did. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Anyway if you admit God won’t help, then that shows humans need to take a stand and decide for ourselves how we want to live.[/FONT]

I do agree.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Do any of your examples have anything to do with morals?[/FONT]

As I have pointed out over and over and over and over "Morality" is a subjective term. so no there isn't anything you have to do according to your "moral" standards. Because in the end you can just change what you think morality is.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]My argument is merely that society evolves through time, absolute morals do not really exist without exceptions.[/FONT]

I agree "MORALITY" will change over time, but God's righteousness does not.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] You haven’t provided any examples to counter the argument.[/FONT]

You don't seem to understand the argument being discussed.
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[this is not my name]

definitely fighting gluttony. don't really feel convicted about it any more, and have felt like I was trying to use it to fill the place where I thought the Holy Spirit left. it is sin to do it with wrong motives, but have not had help of Holy Spirit to help. don't deserve help. I am almost at that point of giving up. gluttony only really became a problem two weeks ago ish. it is almost like I no longer despise the sin.

 

[bèlla]

I'm in the minority about weight and have spoken about the negative impact of the body positivity movement. While I agree that we should have a healthy self-image. I think it's disingenuous to suggest that women can eat themselves into a state that few men are willing to accept.

This was the number one point of contention on dating sites. It was a topic that came up again and again. Men were berated for their preferences. Women were disheartened that he wouldn't accept her "as is."

There is no difference in disordered eating spiritually. Whether the individual is anorexic, bulimic, or obese it hails from the same ruler. It's self-sabotage and should be addressed with spiritual and natural remedies.

Obsessive and compulsive spirits are usually the result of a breakdown (of some sort) and the negative compensation the individual has established to cope. Whether we're addressing food, drugs, alcohol, sex, or any excess. It functions as the same placeholder.

 

[Radagast]

Am I right in thinking that the sin of gluttony literally means, don't eat too much?

No, it means don't elevate sensory pleasures (like eating) above God.

Or does it also just mean don't be greedy with all possessions?

That would be avarice.

you are effectively eating someone else's food.

It doesn't work that way. The world has more than enough food.

It's just that some parts of the world have insufficient food, while other areas have an excess, and there are problems with the hungry getting access to food (including poverty, government corruption, poor infrastructure, civil conflict, and warfare).

 

[this is not my name]

I agree with this. and greediness is idolatry. we are to be content with the food and clothing we have, because Jesus is always with us. He is all we need. we may even suffer and die on a cross, but He is with us, and we will wake up in eternity, with Jesus Christ! He will then satisfy every hunger, and give us drink.

 

[Hishandmaiden]

Gluttony, unfortunately, is a sin I struggle with.
Yes, I love to eat, and eat meat.
But I know it is a sin.
I am forgiven based on Christ alone.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yup--everyone forgets, Adam and Eve were tempted with food. It wasn't over eating, the sin was disobedience--but still, it was through food that Satan won them over.
Obesity has many components and one has to be very careful to not condemn for no one knows the struggles of another. The problem is not always just a matter of eating too much--it is what type of food you eat and the amount of exercise you get. Metabolism rate is also a factor. The object is health--not looks. There are medical issues that can also be involved--I have no thyroid, I have degenerative discs and a peculiar thing that much movement causes severe cramping and I am in a wheel chair--end result is huge weight gain with very little food. But I always had a problem. It infuriated me to watch my co-workers eat twice as much and weigh half as much! My friend would have hash browns--with gravy--3 sausages, 3-4 pieces of bacon, 2 fried eggs, toast---and, Skim milk. Really??--I'd sit there with my oats and yogurt and want to strangle her!! She ate like that for lunch and dinner---she weighed all of 100 lbs--soaking wet, after lunch and only exercised if she hit 105, which wasn't often! She was a very hyper person though.
There was a friend with an even more severe problem. She had to eat copious amounts of calories to stay about 10 lbs underweight! She didn't drink milk--she drank 1/2+1/2! When she went dancing she had to constantly be eating-- candy bars, high calorie drinks, anything and everything to override the calories she was burning up. You could easily call her a glutton, but she had to be. She ate constantly and huge amounts of high calorie foods and never exercised and always was skinny. For her, it was just as bad as for someone who is overweight. It was a constant daily struggle.

1Sa 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Poor Eli had a weight problem--and he was a High Priest. He was very old and blind also, though. So he couldn't use up the calories he once could. Might not have broken his neck if he hadn't been "heavy."