The Security of the Believer is Secured by our God

[nobdysfool]

There is a difference between a False believer and an Apostate. A False believer is a person who never believed in the Gospel. An Apostate is one who once believed but has lost faith.

What you mean by "True believer" is those destined to be saved. But that doesn't mean it is impossible for a person who once sincerely believed the Gospel to reject it. Saying that a Christian can't reject the Gospel is saying God has limited his free will.

What you argue for then is for man to be able to thwart and nullify the Will of God. That comes from a wrong understanding of what you call free will, which has about as many different definitions as there are people saying that they "must" have it.

The logical conclusion of most free will theology is to reduce God to pleading with man to "accept" Jesus, and an elevation of man's abilities and power to co-equal status with God with regard to salvation.

What makes you think that God cannot so order the events of your life, such that you perceive no guidance or direction of events, and therefore you believe that you choose freely to do what you will, and completely forget that God knows you so well that he knows exactly what you will choose to do in any situation, before you even conceive of taking an action, speaking a word, or thinking a thought about it. Given that, it is a small matter for God to direct and guide the events of your life to ensure that certain things are done by you, certain words are spoken to specific people at specific times by you, and certain chains of events are initiated by you with effects radiating out from those things, touching and affecting other peoples' lives and causing certain reactions and actions, also foreknown and directed by God, to the end that His Will is minutely and completely carried out, all without your knowledge of it, or opportunity to give or withhold consent, because it is God's Will that will be done in any and all circumstances, and NOT yours, EVER.

I don't believe you really have any concept of just how completely Sovereign God is over the affairs of men, because you spend more time convincing yourself that you have an autonomous free will which God cannot and dare not violate. Such is the Hubris of the Arminian.

 

[Philip dT]

The state of man's will is completely different "after salvation

Why then does man's will/mind still has to be renewed after salvation?

 

[frumanchu]

Why then does man's will/mind still has to be renewed after salvation?

Be careful not to confuse the two (mind and will) for they are different things.

The "renewing of your mind" (Rom 12:2) is the ongoing process of sanctification where you are increasingly brought to conformity with Christ. This sudden new faith and desire for God does not wipe away years of thought processes and habits formed according to the wisdom of the world. As we renew our minds, we learn to recognize sin and temptation, learn to avoid it, learn to persevere through it, learn to bring our thoughts and impulses increasingly into captivity to the Word and to His Will.

The will functions the same...it operates according to the strongest desire at the moment of choice. The renewal of your mind is the process of helping set you up for the best possible success in your daily walk. It is training your mind to act upon the faith your heart has produced.

 

[Philip dT]

Not so. In Rom 7:25, it states: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

The "mind" (Greek: nous) Paul is refering to here, is referring to the will (thelo) that was discussed in 7:17,19,20 etc. In Rom 7 therefore, the will and the mind essencially fall into the same category.

 

[krissy]

Hi I Need Help, Advice..

 

[krissy]

i AM A SAVED CHRISTIAN AS OF 2-3 YEARS AGO, I GOT OUT OF CHURCH , AND SNNED ALOT , NOW I WANT HIM TO FORGIVE ME AND START MY LIFE OVER WITH HIM ALWAYS, i DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS?

 

[Ben johnson]

Krissy --- do you know what salvation is? Do you know what "Born Again", means? I would recognize that you were saved before; but all of us here agree that what matters, is where you are in Jesus, NOW.

Please read Romans6-8. Chapter 6 is about "born again", the old woman dies (to sin), and is born a new creature. It uses 5 words interchangeably --- "crucified", "died", "buried", "immersed", "united". United with Jesus in death, dead to sin. AND --- we are likewise united in His resurrection, "born anew".

Salvation, succinctly, is "Christ in you". When you receive Jesus, you receive His real person, into your heart. Please read Gal2:20. You also receive the real person of the Holy Spirit into your heart. We-saved, are truly, INDWELT by those two persons. In Romans7, there now becomes a war between the "old" woman, and the "new" woman --- sin fighting against righteousness. Just as you said, "got out of church and sinned alot".

The answer, is in ch8 --- "walk in sin (which is DEATH), or walk in the Spirit, putting to death the things of the flesh, which is LIFE." Look especially at verses 12 and following.

It is not a matter of "being strong for God" --- but rather, letting HIM be strong IN YOU!

Psalm 118:14: "He is my strength and my song, He has become my salvation!"

As Gal2:20 says, "it is no longer us who live, but CHrist lives in us!"

What about your sin? God has this really neat little "trick". Read 1John1:9 --- if you confess your sins and repent, you KNOW they ARE forgiven! And then His "neat little trick" --- He remembers your sins, NO MORE! Heb10:17

There is nothing you can do that can prevent you from belonging to Him; if you truly repent of sins, and receive Him, then you ARE saved. Rom10:9-10. Salvation, completely described, is FELLOWSHIP with the living, conscious, sentient, Savior. We receive Him as Savior, and LORD (Master!). He is our Creator; He knows what will make us truly happy, and He is our righteousness in and through us! 2Cor5:21

Religion says, "you are saved by deeds; you are what you do."
Christianity says, "You are saved by Him indwelling you, changing your heart from the INSIDE; you DO what you ARE."

Welcome to the boards, btw; ask any questions you wish. "There are no silly questions!"

Hope and pray this helps.

 

[jakomus]

We need to keep in mind what grace is.It seems that my brother Ben has a conditional view of salvation which is a normal human inclination in all religions of the world.Salvation is by grace(gratis:free,unmerited,unconditional).In the verse in Philippians when Paul said he was confident means sure not hopeful ,unless we mean hope as confidence.But the question is how could Paul say that He who began the good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ,if there was a possibility of loosing your salvation? if this could happen the the work which the Lord started in us would not be complete but disrupted before the day of the Lord .And just because we have our salvation settled by Christ does not mean that we do not need to persevere,,this is a frut of our faith in Christ(check the list in Galatians 5:22-24)

 

[Ben johnson]

Welcome to the boards, Jakomus. Salvation is not by grace; it is by grace through faith. We can show that "saving-faith", is charged to us; freely chosen or rejected.

You refer to Philippians 1:6; but I bet you haven't realized that just 3 verses later, 1:9-10, Paul prays for them to persevere IN salvation.

"SO THAT", "IN ORDER TO BE".

Philippians 1:6 is a "positive assurance", which is in context with "concern for continuing in salvation".

Heb6:9 is "positive assurance", which is in context with 6:11-12, concern for continuing in salvation.

Heb10:39 is "positive assurance", which is in context with 10:36, concern for continuing in salvation. (Is verse 38b written as "impossible"? No.)

See the pattern?

 

[frumanchu]

Welcome to the boards, Jakomus. Salvation is not by grace; it is by grace through faith. We can show that "saving-faith", is charged to us; freely chosen or rejected.

You hear that, Jakomus? Salvation is not by grace, it's by grace!

Faith is the means by which that grace is applied, but it is not a co-equal cause with grace. Salvation is not by grace and faith, but by grace through faith. Whose faith? Ours of course. It is our response to the call. The question however is who will exercise such faith and why.

You refer to Philippians 1:6; but I bet you haven't realized that just 3 verses later, 1:9-10, Paul prays for them to persevere IN salvation.

The Word of God is the means ordained by God to bring men to faith and to preserve them in that faith. God could just as easily appear to each individual as He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus or Moses or Isaiah, but He chose to use human agency as the means of bringing about faith. Likewise, He chose the Word as the means by which the believer is preserved through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Paul's prayer for them to persevere in salvation does not necessarily indicate a realistic possibility of believer failing to do so any more than our prayer to the Father "thy Kingdom come" indicates a realistic possibility of the Kingdom not coming.

Philippians 1:6 is a "positive assurance", which is in context with "concern for continuing in salvation".

Heb6:9 is "positive assurance", which is in context with 6:11-12, concern for continuing in salvation.

Heb10:39 is "positive assurance", which is in context with 10:36, concern for continuing in salvation. (Is verse 38b written as "impossible"? No.)

See the pattern?

Yup. False arguments of necessity (presumption of your conclusion).

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

As always Mr Ben Johnson

takes verses how to live the Christian life for intial salvation

intial salvation
present tense salvation
future salvation

 

[cygnusx1]

It seems to me that this debate boils down to one point. Who initiates real religion in the heart of a believer - man, or God?

Is it God who has to react to a man believing, and grant him the new birth?

Or do men believe because God has granted them the new birth?

I deny that faith in the heart comes from knowledge in the head. If it was so, why is it that so many people who read the Bible and know ABOUT Jesus never really know Jesus?

Why will it be that many shall say unto Jesus "Lord, Lord" in the last day, and yet receive the reply "Depart from me, I never knew you."?

Why is it that devils, though they believe and tremble, are never born again?

You say that "Belief is not a work; it is surrender of our own works, to receive His work." What confusion! It makes no sense. 'Surrendering' our own works is still a 'work': it's still something that we must do.

Pete

Amen Pete !!!