The Security of the Believer is Secured by our God

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The Security of the Believer is Secured by our God!

The security of the believer in salvation is more than a doctrine built on a few proof texts.
1. It is based on the poper understanding of the tenses of salvation[refers to last study]
2. It is based on the poper understanding of nature of our salvation
3. It is based on the poper understanding of God character and His grace

Somethings are confused with security and are not security.

Perseverance is not a security

1. Perserverance is keeping on keeping on. "Perserverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again."

Wayne Grudem, systematic theolgy, p 788

2. Perseverance is endurance and means that the believer continues to do the right things until Christ returns.

Assurance is not security.

1. assurance is confidence or the idea of being fully supported.

2. Assurance is related to the believers experience. A believer is secure but may lack assurances due to poor teaching, carnality and/or doubt.


Security is God's work.

John 5:24 God guarantees our freedom from Judgement......
1. we believed
2. We recieve eternal life
3. we will not come into Judgement

John 10:27-30 God holds us secure
1. Christ gives us eternal life vs 28
2. Christ guaranteed we will never come to total ruin vs 28
3. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from His hand vs 28
4. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from the Father's hand vs 29

Romans 8:38-39 - God secures us in His love. The following questions are each asked in light of a work of God to show the absurity of such a things happening
1. Will God charge the one He declared righteous? NO! vs 33
2. Will Christ comdemn the one for whom He died, was raised, sits at the right hand of the Father and intercedes? NO! vs 34
3 Who will seperate us from His love of the Christ? vs 35
4 Nothing can seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. vs 39

eph 1:13 The Spirit seals us in Christ
1. God made us Christ's inheritances vs 11
2. God set out boundaries which are all according to His plan so that we will be to His praise vs 12
3 God sealed us in Christ to be certain that Christ's inheritance would be complete and entire vs 13 see also 4:30

eph 2:8-9 God savd us by grace not works
1. " Are saved" is a perfect periphrastic contruction indictating that we are saved by grace so that we are still in a state of slavation by grace and not by works.

2.Since our salvation past and present is by grace and not works, how could it be lost? We didn't deserve it to begin with, how could one become undeserving.

Philippians 1:6- God the Spirit will finish what he started.
1. He began a good work in us.
2. He will fully complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:18-19- God secures His foundations
1. The faith of some has been overthrown vs 18 "the Faith"refers to spiritual life.
2. The Lord knows the ones who are His vs 19 Paul's point is that even though bad teaching has messed up some believers's spiritual lives, they were not in danger for their salvation was firm because of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 - God guards us by His own power
1. He bore us again to a living hope vs 3
2. He bor us to an inheritance which is kept safe for us i heaven vs 4
3. He guards us by His own power so we recieve the salvation which is faith which is ready to be revealed in the last time. vs 5

Jude 1:24- God is able to guard us.
1. so we do not stumble
2 So we stand blameless before His glory
 

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
The Security of the Believer is Secured by our God!

The security of the believer in salvation is more than a doctrine built on a few proof texts.
1. It is based on the poper understanding of the tenses of salvation[refers to last study]
2. It is based on the poper understanding of nature of our salvation
3. It is based on the poper understanding of God character and His grace

Somethings are confused with security and are not security.

Perseverance is not a security

1. Perserverance is keeping on keeping on. "Perserverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again."

Wayne Grudem, systematic theolgy, p 788

2. Perseverance is endurance and means that the believer continues to do the right things until Christ returns.

Assurance is not security.

1. assurance is confidence or the idea of being fully supported.

2. Assurance is related to the believers experience. A believer is secure but may lack assurances due to poor teaching, carnality and/or doubt.


Security is God's work.

John 5:24 God guarantees our freedom from Judgement......
1. we believed
2. We recieve eternal life
3. we will not come into Judgement

John 10:27-30 God holds us secure
1. Christ gives us eternal life vs 28
2. Christ guaranteed we will never come to total ruin vs 28
3. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from His hand vs 28
4. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from the Father's hand vs 29

Romans 8:38-39 - God secures us in His love. The following questions are each asked in light of a work of God to show the absurity of such a things happening
1. Will God charge the one He declared righteous? NO! vs 33
2. Will Christ comdemn the one for whom He died, was raised, sits at the right hand of the Father and intercedes? NO! vs 34
3 Who will seperate us from His love of the Christ? vs 35
4 Nothing can seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. vs 39

eph 1:13 The Spirit seals us in Christ
1. God made us Christ's inheritances vs 11
2. God set out boundaries which are all according to His plan so that we will be to His praise vs 12
3 God sealed us in Christ to be certain that Christ's inheritance would be complete and entire vs 13 see also 4:30

eph 2:8-9 God savd us by grace not works
1. " Are saved" is a perfect periphrastic contruction indictating that we are saved by grace so that we are still in a state of slavation by grace and not by works.

2.Since our salvation past and present is by grace and not works, how could it be lost? We didn't deserve it to begin with, how could one become undeserving.

Philippians 1:6- God the Spirit will finish what he started.
1. He began a good work in us.
2. He will fully complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:18-19- God secures His foundations
1. The faith of some has been overthrown vs 18 "the Faith"refers to spiritual life.
2. The Lord knows the ones who are His vs 19 Paul's point is that even though bad teaching has messed up some believers's spiritual lives, they were not in danger for their salvation was firm because of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 - God guards us by His own power
1. He bore us again to a living hope vs 3
2. He bor us to an inheritance which is kept safe for us i heaven vs 4
3. He guards us by His own power so we recieve the salvation which is faith which is ready to be revealed in the last time. vs 5

Jude 1:24- God is able to guard us.
1. so we do not stumble
2 So we stand blameless before His glory

Good Day, ABIC

If I could add one more:

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Peace to u,

Bill
 
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Ben johnson said:
Can you please cite your source? "Used with permission"? (A copyright infringement suit would be bad for the board...)

I responded to the idea of "perseverance of the saints" in the "Cause-of-faith-responce" thread. Hope you will look there...

:)
A like minded believer of mine!

who what's everyone to learn with all his heart about God....

If you what to here him speak come to my home town!!!
 
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Ben johnson said:
Can you please cite your source? "Used with permission"? (A copyright infringement suit would be bad for the board...)

I responded to the idea of "perseverance of the saints" in the "Cause-of-faith-responce" thread. Hope you will look there...

:)
that it wow!

this is considered a no response
 
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Ben johnson said:
Can you please cite your source? "Used with permission"? (A copyright infringement suit would be bad for the board...)

I responded to the idea of "perseverance of the saints" in the "Cause-of-faith-responce" thread. Hope you will look there...

:)
where is this????

that all your response? did you look at this at all?
 
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nobdysfool

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
where is this????

that all your response? did you look at this at all?
The request for source and permission was his response. A smokescreen to avoid dealing with the subject matter. Why? Because he can't!!!!
 
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Ben johnson

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NBF said:
The request for source and permission was his response. A smokescreen to avoid dealing with the subject matter. Why? Because he can't!!!!
Whyyyy ayyyyye youghtta....
ABIC said:
that all your response? did you look at this at all?
Would it do any good, ABIC? You post verses, I refute them; I post verses, they're ignored...

But, as you wish... :)
Perseverance is not a security

1. Perserverance is keeping on keeping on. "Perserverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again."

Wayne Grudem, systematic theolgy, p 788

2. Perseverance is endurance and means that the believer continues to do the right things until Christ returns.
And yet, perseverance is charged to US. 1Tim4:16, 2Thess1:4, Heb12:1, Jms1:3, 2Pet1:5, Rev2:2.
John 5:24 God guarantees our freedom from Judgement......
1. we believed
2. We recieve eternal life
3. we will not come into Judgement
It's based on belief. Have you ever read Hebrews3? "Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you a heart hardened by deceitful sin to UNBELIEVING and FALLING AWAY from the LIVING GOD"...
John 10:27-30 God holds us secure
1. Christ gives us eternal life vs 28
2. Christ guaranteed we will never come to total ruin vs 28
3. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from His hand vs 28
4. Christ guaranteed no one will snatch us from the Father's hand vs 29
"Snatch" is "harpazo" --- seize or remove forcibly. Jn10:9 says "ANYONE enters through Me" --- enter, is believe. Enter, is become His sheep. Notice verse 25: "I told you and you don't believe". That's their choice, not God's. See Jn8:42, 5:46-47 --- belief is entirely of volition.

From "beginning faith to ending faith" Rom1:17.
Romans 8:38-39 - God secures us in His love. The following questions are each asked in light of a work of God to show the absurity of such a things happening
1. Will God charge the one He declared righteous? NO! vs 33
2. Will Christ comdemn the one for whom He died, was raised, sits at the right hand of the Father and intercedes? NO! vs 34
3 Who will separate us from His love of the Christ? vs 35
4 Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. vs 39
Again, it's all based on belief. And "separate us from His love" --- contrast that with 2Tim2:13: "If we are faithless (and perish!), He remains faithful". He loves us and desires us to repent and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Tim2:4); but if we don't, it was US that failed HIM --- His love did not leave us.
eph 1:13 The Spirit seals us in Christ
1. God made us Christ's inheritances vs 11
2. God set out boundaries which are all according to His plan so that we will be to His praise vs 12
3 God sealed us in Christ to be certain that Christ's inheritance would be complete and entire vs 13 see also 4:30
It says, "HAVING BELIEVED, you were sealed..." It's all founded on belief (didn't I say that already?). Since belief is ours, and faith is ours, and perseverance is ours, we are "protected by the power of God, through our faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last day." 1Pet1:5
eph 2:8-9 God savd us by grace not works
1. " Are saved" is a perfect periphrastic contruction indictating that we are saved by grace so that we are still in a state of salvation by grace and not by works.

2.Since our salvation past and present is by grace and not works, how could it be lost? We didn't deserve it to begin with, how could one become undeserving.
By UNBELIEF. "By grace through faith have you been saved" --- if we are "deceived by sin to hard, unbelieving heart", we are faithLESS. And fall.
Philippians 1:6- God the Spirit will finish what he started.
1. He began a good work in us.
2. He will fully complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Paul says "I am CONFIDENT" --- that's a "hopeful". And just three verses later, he prays for their continuance in salvation.

"And this I pray, that your love may abound more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, SO THAT you MAY approve the things that are excellent, IN ORDER TO BE sincere and blameless until the day of Christ"... Philip1:9

Whaddya think he meant by, "in order to be"? Could this possibly mirror, "Jesus will present you before God holy and blameless and beyond reproach, IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith firmly established and steadfast and not be moved away from the Hope of the Gospel (Jesus!)"? (Col1:23)
2 Timothy 2:18-19- God secures His foundations
1. The faith of some has been overthrown vs 18 "the Faith"refers to spiritual life.
"Upset the faith" can refer to "STILL SAVED"? I don't see it. Far more likely it reflects 1Cor8:11: For through your knowledge he who is weak is RUINED (destroyed!), the brother for whose sake Christ died!"
2. The Lord knows the ones who are His vs 19 Paul's point is that even though bad teaching has messed up some believers's spiritual lives, they were not in danger for their salvation was firm because of God.
The "ones who are His" --- could they be, (as the rest of the verse says,) "everyone who names the name of the Lord and abstains from wickedness" are THEY WHO ARE HIS?
1 Peter 1:3-5 - God guards us by His own power
1. He bore us again to a living hope vs 3
2. He bor us to an inheritance which is kept safe for us i heaven vs 4
3. He guards us by His own power so we recieve the salvation which is faith which is ready to be revealed in the last time. vs 5
Yes --- He DOES guard by His own power; but through faith. Because you see "saving-faith" as a unilateral gift from God, you see the entire "guard-by-His-power" as one-sided.

...but if "saving-faith" is charged to US, then His power works through OUR BELIEF.
Jude 1:24- God is able to guard us.
1. so we do not stumble
2 So we stand blameless before His glory
God is ABLE.

What did Jude mean by this?
"But You, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Spirit, KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

Does that sound like "saving-faith-GIFTED"? Or more like, "saving-faith-growth charged to us", and "keeping ouselves in His love" (perseverance) also charged to us?
BBAS said:
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
And yet --- "he who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, has SCORNED the BLOOD of the covenenat BY WHICH he WAS SANCTIFIED,, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

BTW, the "Spirit Seals" section also mentions Eph4:30. If the Spirit can be INSULTED, if the Spirit can be GRIEVED, if the Spirit can be RESISTED (Acts5:71), do you think such a person who DOES (resist/insult/grieve) will still be SAVED?
 
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Ben johnson

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So we are saved, not by Grace, but by our own volition?
Pete, we are saved by God's grace, through our faith. Faith receives the gift of grace --- salvation remains entirely of Him, accomplished on the Cross, sufficient and complete.

It is belief that receives the Holy Spirit and His regeneration. It is belief that abides us in Him. Did you look up the verses you quoted?

"If God were your Father (if you believed in God), then you would love Me; for I came from the Father."

"If you believed Moses, then you would believe Me, for Moses wrote of Me. But if you do not believe Moses, how will you believe Me?"

Where are the words, "how will you believe unless God has given you that belief/faith?"
 
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Ben johnson

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Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

For by grace (th gar cariti). Explanatory reason. "By the grace" already mentioned in verse Romans 5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pistewß). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse Romans 5 to make it plainer. "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours. And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pistiß (feminine) or to cariß (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.

__________________________________________________________

If "saving-faith" was a unilateral gift from God ("unilateral" meaning "given before we consent or ask"), then how does Paul say "with the heart man believes"? (Rm10:10) And, "sacred writings give you wisdom which gives you saving faith"? (2Tim3:15)

If "faith is instilled", then why does Paul say in Rm10:14, "how shall they believe without a preacher"? Why does Jesus say in Jn5:44, "How can you believe, WHEN you seek man's glory and not God's?" And 5:47, "if you do not believe Moses, how shall you believe Me?"

You see, Robertson has it right. Saving-faith is NOT "gifted by God"; it us our choice.

Belief is not a work; it is surrender of our own works, to receive His work.
 
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pcwilkins

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"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Tim. 3:15

Your Bible is different to mine.

We are having the same debate in two places! Sorry to hijack this thread.

Pete
 
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Ben johnson

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"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Tim. 3:15
Scriptures => wisdom (conviction, learning) => faith => salvation.

Can you deny the sequence? Faith comes from wisdom which comes from studying the Scriptures. But look at those who were "UNWILLING to come to Jesus that they might live" (Jn5:40) --- Jesus says, "You search the Scriptures thinking they'll give you eternal life" (5:39); "but you won't believe what Moses wrote of Me" (46-47).
We are having the same debate in two places!
He he he! Aren't you having fun? :D

(Gonna go cut some "Z's" though...)
 
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pcwilkins

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It seems to me that this debate boils down to one point. Who initiates real religion in the heart of a believer - man, or God?

Is it God who has to react to a man believing, and grant him the new birth?

Or do men believe because God has granted them the new birth?

I deny that faith in the heart comes from knowledge in the head. If it was so, why is it that so many people who read the Bible and know ABOUT Jesus never really know Jesus?

Why will it be that many shall say unto Jesus "Lord, Lord" in the last day, and yet receive the reply "Depart from me, I never knew you."?

Why is it that devils, though they believe and tremble, are never born again?

You say that "Belief is not a work; it is surrender of our own works, to receive His work." What confusion! It makes no sense. 'Surrendering' our own works is still a 'work': it's still something that we must do.

Pete
 
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Ben johnson

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I deny that faith in the heart comes from knowledge in the head. If it was so, why is it that so many people who read the Bible and know ABOUT Jesus never really know Jesus?
Then how do you understand 2Tim3:15? "You have known the sacred Scriptures which are able to give you the wisdom which leads to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ" Does Paul say in that verse, that "faith is gifted by God" --- or does he say "faith comes from wisdom which is from studying the Scriptures"?

I have asked a question for a long time; and nobody has really answered it to my satisfaction. "Boil all of the New Testament down to a single word, one word that defines us and sums up salvation, a solitary word that conveys salvation and the Gospel --- what would that word be?" It seems to me that there is not a lot of good teaching happening in Christendom. We have "prosperity doctrines", and "name-it-and-claim-it", we have focusing on healings and gifts and feelings and not much on the Lord of our salvation. We have concepts such as "backslidden-saved", and "don't worry about repentance 'cause God will KEEP you and RETURN you". We have Sunday Christians and occasional Wednesday Christians --- but what about the other days?
Why is it that devils, though they believe and tremble, are never born again?
Because of that one word that DEFINES salvation. Being saved is not a belief. Being saved, is being indwelt by the Spirit, the real person of the Holy Spirit, and being indwelt by the real person of Jesus. "I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the One who loved me and delivered Himself up for me." Gal2:20

Demons cannot have the indwelt FELLOWSHIP with Him that is salvation. They can BELIEVE, but they cannot be BORN AGAIN (dead to sin and alive in Christ). They have already been judged and cannot be redeemed.
You say that "Belief is not a work; it is surrender of our own works, to receive His work." What confusion! It makes no sense. 'Surrendering' our own works is still a 'work': it's still something that we must do.
The question (which divides us) remains: "Is belief of US, or is it of God (unilaterally instilled IN us BY God)?"

How can it not be fully charged to our responsibility, when Jesus said: "HOW can you believe, WHEN you seek man's glory rather than God's? If you did not (WILL not) believe Moses, then how will you believe Me?"

It is no work to receive a gift given to me. The work in creating the gift, and delivering it to me, was done entirely by the giver. It's not confusion --- simply a question of "who is responsible?".
Why will it be that many shall say unto Jesus "Lord, Lord" in the last day, and yet receive the reply "Depart from me, I never knew you."?
Why also will some "THINK THEY are RICH, but really are poor blind miserable wretched and naked"? (Rev3:14-23) Two things define those who say "LORD LORD" --- they never KNEW Jesus, and they practiced wickedness. Do we not have the CHOICE to pursue righteousness, OR wickedness --- clearly put forth in Romans 6:1, 11-18, and 8:12-17? 8:12 says "obligation", not "compulsion" or "irresistible instillment"...
 
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Hello again Ben,

While as always you make some interesting points nevertheless,the big error you continue to make is to preach a gospel of man which is doomed and offers no hope.Where I believe you err is to mistake that which is addressed in scripture to our responsibility.I pray for the day you come to know the God of Grace who does not leave his people in thier sins or to thier own weaknessess.But by remaining in Christ bearing fruit with the power of Gods Grace.

We are saved kept and brought to glory by Gods Grace never by mans efforts.
That said we have responsibilities and a deep gratitude for what God has done for us and we respond accordingly by holding to Christ for apart from Him we can do nothing.

Yours in Christ

Duncan
 
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Ben johnson said:
Pete, we are saved by God's grace, through our faith. Faith receives the gift of grace --- salvation remains entirely of Him, accomplished on the Cross, sufficient and complete.

It is belief that receives the Holy Spirit and His regeneration. It is belief that abides us in Him. Did you look up the verses you quoted?

"If God were your Father (if you believed in God), then you would love Me; for I came from the Father."

"If you believed Moses, then you would believe Me, for Moses wrote of Me. But if you do not believe Moses, how will you believe Me?"

Where are the words, "how will you believe unless God has given you that belief/faith?"
lets play connect the dots!!!

romans 10:17 So when faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

mark 4:9And He said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And when he was alone they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

1 john 3:10 In this the children of God are made manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not God, neither he that loveth not his brother

notice two groups

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him[Jesus Christ] that justified the ungodly , his faith is counted for righteousness.

yet are we adopted or born into the family

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

John 12:36 while ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. these things spoke Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the Prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe , because that Essaise said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them

Jer 6:10 To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

Jer 7:24
2 tim 3:15
hebrews 4:12
 
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Ben johnson said:
Then how do you understand 2Tim3:15? "You have known the sacred Scriptures which are able to give you the wisdom which leads to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ" Does Paul say in that verse, that "faith is gifted by God" --- or does he say "faith comes from wisdom which is from studying the Scriptures"?
And yet Jesus Himself chided the Pharisees (who were extremely well-versed in Scripture), saying "You search the Scriptures, believing that in them you have life."

I have repeatedly explained this and you have given no acknowledgement to it's validity: knowledge is a necessary condition of faith, but it is NOT a sufficient condition of faith. Satan himself could easily defeat any one of us on a systematic theology exam. But he does not possess the trusting, saving belief IN that knowledge, the fiducia, that is both necessary and sufficient for salvation. You cannot seem to cope with the notion that someone can clearly know the truth....have true knowledge of the Gospel...and yet not possess the trust in that knowledge that brings salvation.

Paul lays it out quite clearly in this verse, Ben. The Scriptures have the knowledge which, through faith in Jesus Christ, give you the wisdom that leads to salvation (or, if you prefer, which lead to the wisdom that brings about salvific faith in Jesus Christ). It still does not change the fact that the Scriptures ALONE are not sufficient to save men. You must account for why one person puts their trust and faith in the knowledge contained therein while another does not.

I have asked a question for a long time; and nobody has really answered it to my satisfaction. "Boil all of the New Testament down to a single word, one word that defines us and sums up salvation, a solitary word that conveys salvation and the Gospel --- what would that word be?"
I find it interesting that you want to focus only on the New Testament and leave out the Old. The one word is not "love." To say "love" is to exclude wrath. To say "grace" is to exclude justice. To say "redemption" is to exclude transgression.

If you want the one word which all of Scripture boils down to, it is HOLY.

It seems to me that there is not a lot of good teaching happening in Christendom. We have "prosperity doctrines", and "name-it-and-claim-it", we have focusing on healings and gifts and feelings and not much on the Lord of our salvation. We have concepts such as "backslidden-saved", and "don't worry about repentance 'cause God will KEEP you and RETURN you". We have Sunday Christians and occasional Wednesday Christians --- but what about the other days?
I agree, although I think your definition of "backslidden-saved" varies widely according to the expediency of the moment.

Because of that one word that DEFINES salvation. Being saved is not a belief. Being saved, is being indwelt by the Spirit, the real person of the Holy Spirit, and being indwelt by the real person of Jesus. "I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the One who loved me and delivered Himself up for me." Gal2:20
I see. So do you believe that no one in the Old Testament was saved (since the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a New Covenant blessing)?

Demons cannot have the indwelt FELLOWSHIP with Him that is salvation. They can BELIEVE, but they cannot be BORN AGAIN (dead to sin and alive in Christ). They have already been judged and cannot be redeemed.
OH REALLY?!?!? Would you mind providing us with the Scripture that tells us where final judgement upon Satan and his angels has been pronounced, particularly when we are told that WE will judge the angels?

The question (which divides us) remains: "Is belief of US, or is it of God (unilaterally instilled IN us BY God)?"
No, the question is whether or not unregenerate, sinful man, who is dead in his sins, blind and deaf to the things of God, and wholly unwilling to cleave to his creator, is able of his own impetus to spontaneously and monergistically bring about a change of inclination from being against God to being for Him.

How can it not be fully charged to our responsibility, when Jesus said: "HOW can you believe, WHEN you seek man's glory rather than God's? If you did not (WILL not) believe Moses, then how will you believe Me?"

It is no work to receive a gift given to me. The work in creating the gift, and delivering it to me, was done entirely by the giver. It's not confusion --- simply a question of "who is responsible?".
Nobody is questioning man's responsibility to glorify God, only unregenerate man's willingness to do so and how that willingness is changed.

Why also will some "THINK THEY are RICH, but really are poor blind miserable wretched and naked"? (Rev3:14-23) Two things define those who say "LORD LORD" --- they never KNEW Jesus, and they practiced wickedness. Do we not have the CHOICE to pursue righteousness, OR wickedness --- clearly put forth in Romans 6:1, 11-18, and 8:12-17? 8:12 says "obligation", not "compulsion" or "irresistible instillment"...
NO, BEN! It says JESUS NEVER KNEW THEM. Please stop misquoting Scripture. You do it far too often.
 
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moonbeam

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Ben johnson said:
Why also will some "THINK THEY are RICH, but really are poor blind miserable wretched and naked"? (Rev3:14-23)
Ben.....some will THINK THEY are RICH....because they believe they are....question?....does their believing they are rich..make them rich?
Two things define those who say "LORD LORD" --- they never KNEW Jesus, and they practiced wickedness.
Ben...it seems to me that you have obscured the intent of that scripture with your rendering of Math7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

"I never knew you" ...This is what defines those who profess "Lord, Lord" in the preceeding verse....."I never knew you" ..... one writer describes the intent of these words in this way.."Our acquiantance was not broken of -- there never was any"

I agree with you that they didn't know Jesus and they practiced iniquity.....but the interesting thing to me is that they are adamant that they KNOW HIM and BELIEVE IN HIM.

Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Ben...you maintain that our believing is what appropriates to us the benefits of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as well as Christ himself indwelling us.....these ones confessing "Lord, Lord" clearly believed in Jesus ........How do you explain the fact that Jesus says ...."I NEVER knew you" ......??

:) peace in Christ :)
 
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