Lamad, please share with me the prophecy which reveals the timing of Rev. 4&5 as the time of Christ ascension? I'm not aware there is any.
Too, will you explain how you conclude the book with the seven seals was created in the courtroom of heaven, and more clearly what important information it contains, and the reason the Father sealed it up?
One day I began to meditate on chapters 4 & 5. Finally, after a week or two, I got stuck on John weeping much, and I could not get away from that. I began to bug God about that, asking Him why we needed to know why John wept, and why it was “much.” Finally God spoke and said,
“It shows timing.”
Again I spent days reading and meditating and praying in the Spirit, and I could not find timing anywhere, so continued to bug Him about it. Finally, perhaps two more weeks, and He said,
“It also shows the movement of time.”
Again I studied, read, meditated, prayed in the spirit, and again I could not find any “movement” of time!
I kept bugging God about this, telling Him I could not find timing or the movement of time anywhere. Finally, God had great mercy on my slowness, and spoke to me:
“Son, I will ask you three questions about this passage of scripture. Until you can answer these questions correctly, you will never understand this vision.
1. “Why did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father in chapter four? I ascended back into heaven years before John saw this vision. There are over a dozen verses showing that I went to be at the right hand of the Father. Stephen SAW me there. Why then did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father?”
As before, when He spoke, I was “in the spirit” and could not answer by thinking of an answer and speaking. However, my spirit man answered, “I cannot answer that question.”
Again He spoke.
2. “John watched a search to find one worthy to open the seals—a search that ended in failure—and that is the reason John wept much: no man was found worthy. However, if you read ahead, you find that I was found worthy to break the seals. Why then was I not found in that first search?”
Again my spirit man answered, “Lord, I cannot answer that.” Then He asked me the third question:
3. “If you notice in chapter 4, the Holy Spirit was still in the throne room. I told the disciples that as soon as I ascended, I would send Him down. Why was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4?”
Again my spirit man said that he could not answer this question. The Lord did not say more at that time. I studied diligently on that vision of the throne room, trying to answer His questions. I could not see any timing. I could not see the movement of time. I could not figure out why Jesus was not at the right hand of the Father. I could not figure out why “no man was found.” I could not figure out why the Holy Spirit was still there. I spent weeks looking and asking God for help.
Finally after three or four more weeks of study, I heard His voice again. He said,
“Go and study chapter 12.”
When I turned to chapter 12, He spoke and gave me a synopsis of that chapter.
“This chapter was Me introducing John to the dragon, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week; but I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a ‘history lesson’ for John. Count how many times the dragon is mentioned, including pronouns.”
I counted 32 times. I could see that chapter 12 was certainly about the dragon! I sat meditating on “history lesson” for a minute or two, and then He said,
“Now you can go back and study chapters 4 & 5 again.”
I would guess this interlude on chapter 12 was less than one hour. At first, I could not understand why He sent me there. But now I know: it was to get “history lesson” into my thinking. You see, the first five verses of chapter 12 was Jesus showing John what the dragon did to attempt to destroy Him when He was born. These events were before John was born, so was certainly a “history lesson” for him.
I turned back to begin meditating again on chapters 4 & 5, but discovered that it was different than before. In one instant of time, I could answer all three of His questions. To this day I am not sure that was a “download” of revelation knowledge or if just having “history lesson” in my mind made the difference.
I immediately knew that this was a vision of the past, or another “history lesson” for John: he was seeing into the throne room of the past, before Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus was not seen at the right hand of the Father, because He was still on earth.
“No man was found” worthy to break the seals, because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become the redeemer worthy to break the seals. And the Holy Spirit was still in the throne room, because Jesus had not yet ascended to send Him down.
Then, in chapter 5, we see the movement of time; another search was started as soon as the first one ended in failure. But in this subsequent search, someone was found. Time was moving, and at this time, Jesus had risen from the dead, and was immediately found worthy.
In this vision, John got to see the very moment Jesus ascended into the throne room, after telling Mary not to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended. Then we see, the moment Jesus arrived in the throne room, that the Holy Spirit was sent down. This then—Jesus ascension—sets the context and timing of the first seal. One cannot find 2000 years between these verses.
For years pre-tribbers have tried to force a rapture upon Revelation 4:1. It is my guess, if we took 100 5th graders that had never been to a church and had them read this verse and tell us what they thought it means, none would come up with a catching away of the church. They would all say that this was John being caught up to heaven, for the purpose of being taught things to come. It is truly sloppy exegesis to imagine this is the rapture, and has opened to door wide for massive criticism, and rightly so. This was never intended by the Author, the Holy Spirit, to be the rapture.
Next, it has long been the thought of pre-trib theory that the 70th week would begin with the first seal. Again, it is very sloppy exegesis, and again, not the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. The truth is, the vision of the throne room is the context for the seals, and must be understood before the timing of the seals will ever be known.
Many people ignore this vision of the throne room and claim the first seal to be the antichrist, when there is not one word about him to portray evil. And when they are 2000 years off. John used the color white 17 times in Revelation, and the other 16 all to portray righteousness - yet some can believe that in this one instance, white must mean something else. John and the Holy Spirit were thinking of the church set out with the gospel, but today many imagine the Antichrist.
If we study the vision of the throne room, chapters 4 through 5, and not just skim over it, some things become evident. First, why was Jesus not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father? We have a dozen verses telling us that is where He should be. Yet, He was not seen. Next, John watched a search for one worthy to break the seals, and saw that search end in failure— which is why John wept much. This vision was seen around 95 AD. But what was the time portrayed in the vision? Was it past, present, or future? (A vision can be any of these.) We must determine why this first search ended in failure.
Next, we see in Chapter 4 that the Holy Spirit is there in the throne room, when Jesus said that as soon as He ascended He would send Him down. So we have another conundrum. I must emphasize again, unless we understand these things, we can never understand the timing of the seals, for this is the context of the first seal.
If we get into Chapter 5, we can begin to find the answers. Another search was begun as soon as the one John watched ended with failure. But in this next search, finally, someone was found. What had changed? Time was the only thing that changed. John wept much. This does not mean a little. Time passed. Then, suddenly, John saw a new entity in the throne room - one who was not there a moment before. And the next event: the Holy Spirit is immediately sent down to earth.
The only conclusion I can come to with these clues is that the passing of time made a difference. First Jesus was not in the throne room, and then He suddenly appeared. First no man was found, and then Jesus was found. First the Holy Spirit was in the room, and then He was sent down. What is the answer?
When John first looked into the throne room, it was
the throne room of the past to John, looking back in time to a time just before Jesus rose from the dead. He was not at the right hand of the Father, because He left that exalted state to become a man—and He had not yet returned to the Father. From eternities past to eternities future, there has been only one tiny portion of time where the second member of the Godhood was not at the right hand of the Father—and that was the short 32 years He was on the earth.
No man was found because at this moment in time, Jesus had not yet risen from the dead, to be found as the redeemer of man. The Holy Spirit was there simply because Jesus had not yet ascended to send Him down.
John wept...not a little but nuch...and during that time of John weeping, Jesus rose from the dead. He was immediately found worthy to take the book and open the seals. Then, after Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him, He ascended to the Father, and the Holy Spirit was immediately send down to the church.
So after all that, what time was it? It was around 32 AD when Jesus ascended to the throne. What was the first thing Jesus did? He took the book from the Father's hand and began immediately to break seals. Therefore, there can only be one conclusion: the first seals were broken about 32 AD.
The first seal was a white horse and rider. White was to represent righteousness. What was the one entity on earth in 32 AD that was righteous? Of course, the infant church was righteous. This first seal was and is to represent the church sent out with the gospel to make disciples of all nations. He rides alone. He conquers and overcomes. Today there is no country anywhere where the Gospel has not been at some time or other. And today, thanks to the internet, the gospel is everywhere the internet is.
Next we have the Red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider. These three ride together. John wrote, “And power was given unto them...”—these three— “to kill with the sword:” the red horse; to kill “with hunger:” the black horse; and to kill “with death:” the pale horse. They are to represent the feeble attempts of the devil to stop the advance of the gospel.
God limited their theater of operation to one fourth of the earth. I am convinced, Satan was sure he could keep the church bottled up in that one fourth and prove God to be a liar. This one fourth would certainly be centered over Jerusalem, so would probably take in all of Europe and Africa. Well, it is obvious he failed. The gospel of our Lord is everywhere—in every nation under the sun—yet there are many that still need to be reached.
Finally we come to the 5th seal, the first seal with a hint of a long wait. Because many have misunderstood the timing, they have supposed these to be 70th-week martyrs. No, they are church-age martyrs, and Stephen was one of the first. If we understand what God said to them, we have a hint to the timing of the rapture.
Stop for a moment and think: if these were 70th week martyrs, they would have no reason to ask how long, for they would know they had only 7 years or less to wait. But consider Stephen: he did not know how long the church age would be...and he has waited nearly 2000 years.
They were told they must wait until the very last martyr was killed in the same manner they were killed— as church-age martyrs. (John could not have been speaking of how each one died, for they were all different: the one common thing—they were all killed as church age martyrs.)
What would make the very last church age martyr? Of course, the end of the church age would cause the end of church age martyrs; anyone martyred after this would be classified as a 70th week martyr. What will end the church age? Of course, the pre-trib rapture of the church will end the church age.
So what is the very next event in John's book? Of course the 6th seal comes after the 5th seal. We are right now between the 5th and 6th seal, waiting on the rapture that will end the church age. What is the final sentence at the 6th seal? "The day of His wrath has come." Remember, we have no appointment with His wrath. He comes to delivers us from His wrath.
The book is, without much doubt, Adam's lease document to Earth. I am quite sure that Satan demanded some of the seals on it, as was his right as god of this world. He usurped Adam's lease. Why do I say this? Because at the 7th trumpet some major event must take place for the kingdoms of the world to be taken from the devil and giving to Jesus. I surmise that at that moment in time, Adam's lease has expired. I believe it is a legal document because God always does things legally.
