The scarlet beast is....

[Spiritual Jew]

The wording is referring to a series of changing states of being.

was alive
is not alive
yet is alive

It simply means someone who is killed and comes back to life.

LOL. No, it doesn't mean that. The beast coming back to life would not be described with the text "yet is alive". That is ludicrous. The NIV translating it as "yet to come" makes a lot more sense because it shows the difference between the beast being described as "is not" in contrast to being "yet to come". But, to describe the beast as "is not alive" and "yet is alive" is ridiculous and contradictory. To describe the beast as "yet is alive" gives no impression that it currently is not alive and will come back to life some day.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

@Spiritual Jew

NIV Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

"a man" not man, as in mankind.

I have already addressed this before. They have a footnote there saying "or is humanity's number", which you conveniently failed to mention. That footnote is there because the NIV translators obviously did not all agree on how the words should be translated. That is further proven by the fact that they went with "its" instead of "his" in verse 17 in relation to the beast.

Also, let me make something clear. I am not trying to argue that the NIV or any other English translation is superior to the KJV. So, let's not have a translation debate here. I am saying that none of the English translations perfectly translated every word from the Hebrew and Greek, so we have to take that into account when reading our English translations. We need to use Hebrew and Greek resources when we can and we need to rely on the Holy Spirit to show us what these words should be in cases like this.

Another thing about Revelation 13:18 that I'd like to point out again is that it indicates that, with wisdom from God, we can understand what that verse is saying, which means we can understand what the number 666 means. Yet, you have no idea what it means. What does that say about whether or not anyone should trust your understanding of that verse when you lack the wisdom that the verse itself says is called for in order to understand it?

 

[Douggg]

LOL. No, it doesn't mean that. The beast coming back to life would not be described with the text "yet is alive". That is ludicrous. The NIV translating it as "yet to come" makes a lot more sense because it shows the difference between the beast being described as "is not" in contrast to being "yet to come". But, to describe the beast as "is not alive" and "yet is alive" is ridiculous and contradictory. To describe the beast as "yet is alive" gives no impression that it currently is not alive and will come back to life some day.

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

 

[Douggg]

The NIV translating it as "yet to come" makes a lot more sense because it shows the difference between the beast being described as "is not" in contrast to being "yet to come". But, to describe the beast as "is not alive" and "yet is alive" is ridiculous and contradictory. To describe the beast as "yet is alive" gives no impression that it currently is not alive and will come back to life some day.

You are not making the connection that king 7 will be killed and comes back to life as king 8, the beast king, to continue the short space of 42 months in Revelation 13.

 

[Douggg]

Also, let me make something clear. I am not trying to argue that the NIV or any other English translation is superior to the KJV. So, let's not have a translation debate here. I am saying that none of the English translations perfectly translated every word from the Hebrew and Greek, so we have to take that into account when reading our English translations. We need to use Hebrew and Greek resources when we can and we need to rely on the Holy Spirit to show us what these words should be in cases like this.

You could also use some logic and rationale to determine where king 8, the beast king of Revelation 17:11, is in Revelation 13.

 

[Douggg]

@Spiritual Jew

Why don't the seven heads in Revelation 13 have crowns like they do in Revelation 12 ?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are not making the connection that king 7 will be killed and comes back to life as king 8, the beast king, to continue the short space of 42 months in Revelation 13.

Why would I make a ridiculous connection like that when I know that no king will be resurrected back to mortal life since scripture is very clear that the wicked will all be resurrected and come back to life unto condemnation (John 5:28-29). You interpret the book of Revelation without taking other scripture into account, but I won't do that.

I'm not going to take any more time arguing against a view that only one person even has. What is the point of that? You're not that important. I've already wasted too much time on this. Don't waste your time trying to talk to me about all this anymore, Douggg. I'm done talking about it. If I'm going to spend time refuting something, I'd rather refute something that more than one person actually believes.

 

[Douggg]

Why would I make a ridiculous connection like that when I know that no king will be resurrected back to mortal life since scripture is very clear that the wicked will all be resurrected and come back to life unto condemnation (John 5:28-29). You interpret the book of Revelation without taking other scripture into account, but I won't do that.

I'm not going to take any more time arguing against a view that only one person even has. What is the point of that? You're not that important. I've already wasted too much time on this. Don't waste your time trying to talk to me about all this anymore, Douggg. I'm done talking about it. If I'm going to spend time refuting something, I'd rather refute something that more than one person actually believes.

You sound frustrated because you can't answer...

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You sound frustrated because you can't answer...

No because your position and man-made interpretation are purely unbiblical. You do not even make sense at all.

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

The Bible clearly said that the end of the 7th rule completes with the coming of Christ at the end of the world. Period. In fact, God's Word right there in chapter 17 tells us plainly this Kingdom represented Satan's rule by saying this 8th king is actually the Beast itself and shall ascended out of the bottomless pit. But it is OF THE SEVEN. That's where Satan was bound, to be loosed a short season after the 1000 year millennial reign.

Revelation 17:8

• "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:"

The beast "was" because Satan ruled until Christ defeated him at the cross for the nations. It "is not" because (at the time of John's writing) Christ had bound him and cast him into a spiritual prison that he could not deceive the nations/gentiles and Christ could build His Church. And he "will be" loosed from the bottomless pit for a short period near the end of the world as judgment. So that all is another proof that this beast represents Satan's previous rule through kings, his present chained position in the pit, and his future loosing (from John's perspective). The Lord never talked about the "Beast-king" or "man." He talked about Satan and His kingdom through the beasts, his Body of unbelievers.

Case closed!

 

[Douggg]

No because your position and man-made interpretation are purely unbiblical. You do not even make sense at all.



The Bible clearly said that the end of the 7th rule completes with the coming of Christ at the end of the world. Period. In fact, God's Word right there in chapter 17 tells us plainly this Kingdom represented Satan's rule by saying this 8th king is actually the Beast itself and shall ascended out of the bottomless pit. But it is OF THE SEVEN. That's where Satan was bound, to be loosed a short season after the 1000 year millennial reign.

Revelation 17:8

• "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:"

The beast "was" because Satan ruled until Christ defeated him at the cross for the nations. It "is not" because (at the time of John's writing) Christ had bound him and cast him into a spiritual prison that he could not deceive the nations/gentiles and Christ could build His Church. And he "will be" loosed from the bottomless pit for a short period near the end of the world as judgment. So that all is another proof that this beast represents Satan's previous rule through kings, his present chained position in the pit, and his future loosing (from John's perspective). The Lord never talked about the "Beast-king" or "man." He talked about Satan and His kingdom through the beasts, his Body of unbelievers.

Case closed!

You did not answer the question.

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You sound frustrated because you can't answer...

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

LOL! Hardly. Get over yourself already. As if you've answered all of my questions? LOL. You are a comedian, Douggg. I'm sorry to have informed you that your doctrine that you have all to yourself is not worth any more of my time to refute. Do you really think you are that important that I should spend even more time refuting things that only you believe? Please humble yourself already. Bye.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You did not answer the question.

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

What made you think I use NIV translation?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You did not answer the question.

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

LOL. Did you not even look at who you were talking to and did you not even read his post? He quoted from the KJV and never even said that he uses the NIV, so why are you talking to him and referring to "your NIV translation"? LOL. Thanks for the laughs, Douggggggg.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Moreover, here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads (represent authority) are seven mountains (represent Kingdoms/Rules), that the woman sits upon then represents her fornication with the Beast (The woman representing the harlot congregation). Five of this beast's rules had already taken place before the cross, the one that was in John's day was Satan going about as a roaring lion in the world even though he was bound and chained for the sake of the election, and the other that had not yet come as Satan's kingdom or rule after he is loosed from the pit. And when he is, he must continue a short space/season/time.

Now the 8th God spoke of is explained by His Word to be of the 7 kingdoms. The reason is because he spans the completeness of time (he was there all through the completion of the rule of these kings), being the spirit Satan.

Revelation 17:11

• "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

That's what it means that he that was, is and is not is of the seven. Because he is the power of the seven, BEING the Beast itself upon which the 10 horns grow! He is the spirit of the 7 that spans the completeness of this time, the one that was, and is not, and yet is. "HE" is spoken of as the eighth because he is the entity that rules the seven. He will go into perdition when the Lord returns and judges him. He is the spirit Satan who is of this complete (7) ruling through time, he moves them, working within them as adversary to Christ.

Ephesians 2:2-3

• "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
• Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Satan is a spirit being and he has been of this 7 the completion of his rule, from the beginning.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What made you think I use NIV translation?

LOL. He's not even paying attention to who he's talking to. How can we take this guy seriously? It's impossible.

 

[Douggg]

LOL! Hardly. Get over yourself already. As if you've answered all of my questions? LOL. You are a comedian, Douggg. I'm sorry to have informed you that your doctrine that you have all to yourself is not worth any more of my time to refute. Do you really think you are that important that I should spend even more time refuting things that only you believe? Please humble yourself already. Bye.

The question is not about me personally, but about....

Where in your NIV translation is king 8 in Revelation 13 ?

King 8 is the beast king in Revelation 17:11.

 

[Douggg]

LOL. Did you not even look at who you were talking to and did you not even read his post? He quoted from the KJV and never even said that he uses the NIV, so why are you talking to him and referring to "your NIV translation"? LOL. Thanks for the laughs, Douggggggg.

Tribulation Signs was replying to the question I asked you. Go back to his post #169 and you will see that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. He's not even paying attention to who he's talking to. How can we take this guy seriously? It's impossible.

If someone is delusional or unteachable, simply place him on ignore list.

 

[Douggg]

If someone is delusional or unteachable, simply place him on ignore list.

Good advice. That's what I did to you a long time ago.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Tribulation Signs was replying to the question I asked you. Go back to his post #169 and you will see that.

I know that (hello?), but he never said he uses the NIV and he quoted scripture from the KJV in his post. So, why didn't you change the question so that it actually applied to him if you wanted him to answer the same question, only using his preferred translation instead?