The Saturday Sabbath

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am not at all sure what that post meant.

What did Y'SHUA say ?
(as an example ONLY concerning "knowing the languages" but not understanding the SCRIPTURE; even for those who are devoted to Y'SHUA in their lives)
To the religious 'experts' 'scholars' 'leaders' 'teachers' who rejected HIM ?
(and they certainly knew the original languages,and had TORAH memorized by rote, thoroughly; studied it for hours every day in some cases)

John 5:39
KJ21
“Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life; and it is they which testify of Me.
ASV
Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;
AMP
You search and keep on searching and examining the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and yet it is those [very Scriptures] that testify about Me;
AMPC
You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Tensions rose within the Jewish community until about AD90 when the rabbinical council of Jamniah decided upon the scriptures that would be permissible for use in synagogue services. This effectively ended Christian participation in Sabbath synagogue worship. They did however in most cases continue the tradition of the Sunday service which became known as "the Lords's Day". This eventually became the norm and was in fact made law by Constantine. In due course theology was invented to justify the change.

The Council of Jamniah is a hypothetical council proposed by Heinrich Graetsz in 1871 to account for Mishnah references to debate over certain biblical books, the Ketuvim.

There is no evidence it occurred at all, but was very popular in the early twentieth century to explain the modern Jewish canon. Many 'biblical' books supposedly excluded like Enoch continued to be copied and read in Jewish communities for centuries after the supposed date of this council in the first century.

The council of Jamniah has been thoroughly discredited and is not considered historical at all today.

 

[OzAdventist]

I have been studying what the Bible says about the Sabbath, particularly in the NT.

I am convinced that Saturday remains to be the Sabbath, but I don't want to be legalistic about it.

I first heard of the Sabbath and Saturday worship when I went to an SDA private school. I think the Adventists make a lot of very good points regarding Saturday, but idk if it is strictly necessary to worship on Saturday or if there is anything wrong with worshiping on a Sunday.

Supposedly Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, though the ancient Greek translation uses "Mia ton sabbaton" for "the first day." The Jews also counted time differently than we do. To them, the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening, IIRC.

The Sabbath also precedes the 10 Commandments as it was created on the Seventh Day and God blessed it and made it holy.

While Christians may have worshiped on Sunday for centuries and you could argue that the church in acts assembled on "the first day", I don't see any reason to believe Jesus suggested that the Sabbath be moved to Sunday. The shift was likely to accommodate the Gentile concerts and the Church eventually lost its Jewish roots.

Thoughts?

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/

God bless

OzAdventist

 

[delaD3]

I have been studying what the Bible says about the Sabbath, particularly in the NT.

I am convinced that Saturday remains to be the Sabbath, but I don't want to be legalistic about it.

I first heard of the Sabbath and Saturday worship when I went to an SDA private school. I think the Adventists make a lot of very good points regarding Saturday, but idk if it is strictly necessary to worship on Saturday or if there is anything wrong with worshiping on a Sunday.

Supposedly Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, though the ancient Greek translation uses "Mia ton sabbaton" for "the first day." The Jews also counted time differently than we do. To them, the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening, IIRC.

The Sabbath also precedes the 10 Commandments as it was created on the Seventh Day and God blessed it and made it holy.

While Christians may have worshiped on Sunday for centuries and you could argue that the church in acts assembled on "the first day", I don't see any reason to believe Jesus suggested that the Sabbath be moved to Sunday. The shift was likely to accommodate the Gentile concerts and the Church eventually lost its Jewish roots.

Thoughts?

Sabbath in Israel and Sabbath in America are in different time zones.

 

[masmpg]

I have been studying what the Bible says about the Sabbath, particularly in the NT.

I am convinced that Saturday remains to be the Sabbath, but I don't want to be legalistic about it.

I first heard of the Sabbath and Saturday worship when I went to an SDA private school. I think the Adventists make a lot of very good points regarding Saturday, but idk if it is strictly necessary to worship on Saturday or if there is anything wrong with worshiping on a Sunday.

Supposedly Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, though the ancient Greek translation uses "Mia ton sabbaton" for "the first day." The Jews also counted time differently than we do. To them, the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening, IIRC.

The Sabbath also precedes the 10 Commandments as it was created on the Seventh Day and God blessed it and made it holy.

While Christians may have worshiped on Sunday for centuries and you could argue that the church in acts assembled on "the first day", I don't see any reason to believe Jesus suggested that the Sabbath be moved to Sunday. The shift was likely to accommodate the Gentile concerts and the Church eventually lost its Jewish roots.

Thoughts?

Well put. The way I see it is whatever God says I will do. God said keep THE seventh day holy, not A seventh day, nor any day we choose. The sabbath was NOT instituted at Sinai but in Eden on the seventh day when God rested, even then He blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it. He made THE seventh day holy on the seventh day of creation. Then to drive the nail home He said to remember the sabbath when He wrote the TEN commandments in stone with His immutable finger.

To keep or not to keep the sabbath is a matter of conviction for now. If the Comforter convicts us to do something and we do not we had better question our resolve, because even though humanity cannot see what one Christian is being convicted by or the other it is God who does the convicting, and if we call ourselves Christian and do not follow those convictions, well, here is why the Comforter was sent. You decide. Read John:16:7&8: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:" Our whole Christian walk depends on our living up to what the Holy Spirit convicts or reproves us about.

I say for now in the last paragraph because I believe that the time is coming, and has already happened when mankind will be forced to worship on a certain day. Whether we believe this now or not I am warning that when it does happen and someone tries to force us to worship according to their dictates we need to turn tail and run from that. God would never force humanity to worship. We have the free will for now to choose, but then the freedom of conscience will be taken away just like they did during the dark ages. Be aware of this. In 1888 there was a national sunday law being legislated. We can thank one seventh day adventist attorney, and the Holy Spirit for keeping it from happening. AT Jones went in front of the senate sub committee with senator blair presiding and single handedly, well, seemingly, but with the help of the Holy Spirit, had that law reversed. He has a book out called the national sunday law by AT Jones. There is another national sunday law book out to which is very informative also by Jan Marcueesn.

 

[rstrats]

Quid est Veritas?,
re: "I find the idea of a fixed, definite, continuous seven day cycle going back into the misty days of the bronze age highly improbable."



No need to go back that far. The Sabbath that the Messiah honored was the Sabbath that his fellow countrymen used. They had honored it for centuries. If He had been honoring it on the incorrect day, then He would have been in violation of the Commandment and therefore not sinless. The "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 3, p. 740, article "Chronology" says: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted."


However, If someone has documentation that shows that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at some point between now and the first century I would very much like to see it.

 

[JackRT]

If you want to get real technical, it was the Romans rather than the Jews that, in the first century, numbered the days of the week and decided that Sun's day was going to be the 1st day and Saturn's day was the seventh.

The seventh day sabbath keepers are using a pagan calendar to count the days, but the church has also used this Julian calendar with that numerical system for nearly 1800 years.

The monkey wrench in all this started in 1752, when the United Kingdom and North America switched from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar. By Parliamentary decree, the day immediately after September 2nd was September 14th and 11 days were skipped. (There were even riots because people thought 11 days had been taken off their lives and it was a campaign issue in the British election of 1755.)

Therefore if you do the math and put back the taken days, Saturday worshippers who think they are following the Bible by worshipping on the seventh day according to the Roman calendar, are really worshipping on the previous Tuesday, which is the third day of the week. And Sunday worshippers who think they are worshipping on the first day of the week are really worshipping on the previous Wednesday, the fourth day of the week.

Of course, this doesn't take into account the additional drift that has taken place over the past 2 centuries. In the intervening period between 1752 and today, the difference between the Julian calendar used by the early Church and our current calendar has grown to 13 days. A new day is added every 125 years. So I think this means that in 2006, what we call Saturday which is the seventh day, is really the previous Sunday, the first and it will all even out by 2100.

It is also very, very important to remember that this doesn't apply if you live in Alaska, which had two Fridays in a row: Friday October 6th immediately followed by Friday October 18th, when they switched from the Russian calendar to the US calendar after the US purchased Alaska from Russia in 1867. If you do the math there, the Alaskans are all only one day off with Saturday really being Sunday and the week's first day. So seventh day worshippers in Alaska are really worshipping on the first day and Sunday worshippers on the second day.

And it is important to remember that none of this applies in Scandinavia, Greece, Russia or other countries since they had to drop different numbers of days to adopt the Gregorian calendar. They would all be worshipping on completely different days: the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I am convinced that Saturday remains to be the Sabbath, but I don't want to be legalistic about it.

Don't worry about being legalistic, people throw that term at you even if you just want to keep the commandments and they don't. It's supposed to guilt you into doing things their way so they can feel better about not keeping the commandments/Sabbath themselves.

The 7th day according to which calendar?

Who cares? Do you really think that's going to confuse Sabbath keepers into changing their minds? I would guess God sees it as even if something did get mixed up there, these people are doing the best they can to obey him so...not an issue. On the other hand, those that do all they can to discourage them...well.

 

[rstrats]

JackRT,
re: " By Parliamentary decree, the day immediately after September 2nd was September 14th and 11 days were skipped."



That only changed the date. While eleven days were dropped, Wednesday, September 2 was followed by Thursday, September 14. The dates of the month were changed, but not the order of the days of the week.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am not at all sure what that post meant.

It means he doesn't care that the Scriptures are read in the original language, even though he took issue with English translations because he thinks they are wrong, because no matter what everyone else has to be wrong and he has to be right because he says so. That tends to be the overarching theme of every one of his posts, but he makes sure to say it under the guise of sounding really pious, "YHWH's word this" and "Y'shua that". All Christians are wrong because they don't go by what God says (but he does).

-CryptoLutheran