The same yesterday,today and forever?

[pentecostal girl]

I have a question for people who don't believe in the whole tongue talking thing. If God is the same yesterday,today and forever then why is it not possible for people to talk in tongues this day in age? He's the same God today as he was millions of years ago! Just curious

 

[seangoh]

You're right that God is unchanging. And i believe that the gifts of the spirit are still evident in some areas of the world today as the need arises.(1 cor 12)
IOW, i believe God still uses people to speak in tongues so others can understand the gospel in their own language just like in Acts 2. But only if that is necessary because now we have translators and the world is getting smaller through the transportation system.

 

[aardvark]

While it's true that God doesn't change, the way He interacts with humanity within time does. The unchanging part is God's character and His nature. For example, the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was obviously a change.

If the way you use the verse is correct, then we should find all sorts of examples of tongue-speaking in the Old Testament also. In fact, if you are right, we should not have a New Testament at all because this would be a change. We would still be under the old law rather than under grace. We would still be required to be circumcised and follow the old sacrifice system, etc.

I'll agree that God is unchanging. I just don't think you can apply the verse in that context.

 

[pentecostal girl]

While it's true that God doesn't change, the way He interacts with humanity within time does. The unchanging part is God's character and His nature. For example, the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was obviously a change.

How can he's charcter change if he's always been the same God, that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[seangoh]

God's character doesn't change and it's the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. However, the ways he uses to save us or communicate with us can be different throughout time. For example, God communicated with Adam at a very personal level, maybe face to face. Then after the fall, God communicated quite directly too. Think of the people who had a conversation with God like Abraham, Samuel and Moses. After that prophets were more used to communicate messages to people. Then after, God has a less direct way of communicating but He still communicates like the spirit's prompting. IOW, God is the same as He loves us and is working towards a goal(saving us) but his methods can be different as He's creative. This is one "difference" i see.

With regards to gifts, i don't think there's a text in the Bible which talks about the gift of tongues in the OT but this is what i found.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: 3And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, 5And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship." Exo 31:1-5

So it doesn't take the "coming of the Holy Spirit" for man to obtain gifts for the Lord's work.

 

[pentecostal girl]

With regards to gifts, i don't think there's a text in the Bible which talks about the gift of tongues in the OT but this is what i found

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And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions Joel 2:28. Here's a verse that Jesus prophesied in the OT. I agree with what you posted, but I don't understand why speaking in tongues and gifts such as these ,can't exit today. Hope God keeps blessing over and over again.

 

[faiththatbreathes]

Personally, I've heard people speak in tongues. So, I believe it IS still going on today. However, I see what you're saying: I haven't seen anyone ressurrected recently. The great miracles of the early church certainly don't seem to occur so often nowadays.

 

[seangoh]

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I agree with what you posted, but I don't understand why speaking in tongues and gifts such as these ,can't exit today. Hope God keeps blessing over and over again.

I didn't say speaking in tongues don't exist today. The point is, if such and such a gift is necessary for the furtherance of the gospel, God will make it manifest. In fact, i believe all gifts can be available today. Maybe someone is doing ressurecting somewhere in the world, not sure. But i have no reason to say that God doesn't give that kind of gifts anymore. It's like limiting God.

 

[pentecostal girl]

I didn't say speaking in tongues don't exist today.

I know you didn't say that. I just was making a statement.

 

[seangoh]

I know you didn't say that. I just was making a statement.

actually that wasn't the main idea i was saying..but anyway..

 

[pentecostal girl]

actually that wasn't the main idea i was saying..but anyway..

 

[seangoh]

if you can't beat them confuse them...lol
anyway were the answers given satisfactory for your question for this thread?

 

[pentecostal girl]

if you can't beat them confuse them...lol
anyway were the answers given satisfactory for your question for this thread?

Sort of, I want to know why some don't believe that speaking in tougues can't happen in this time era. Some people believe that speaking in tougues only happend in the new testament only. I want to know why they believe that way.

 

[Rafael]

Sort of, I want to know why some don't believe that speaking in tougues can't happen in this time era. Some people believe that speaking in tougues only happend in the new testament only. I want to know why they believe that way.

Some people are afraid of it, and are others would be too embarassed to do it, thinking it goofy. Part of the crowd at Pentecost thought the whole bunch speaking in tongues were drunk... remember? Whether people want to do it or not, it is there in the Bible for those that want it. Paul was aware of how abused it was and tried to give direction in order for its use in the Church, but that doesn't mean it isn't abused today. As one of the lesser gifts, not everybody is inclined to have it. For me, personally, I'd crawl on my belly a mile to have anything God has to help me in this world. Humiliation or humbling of oneself is a hard pill for most of us, including myself, to swallow. Remember too, not to think less of those that don't display this gift. Pride, in any way, is powerful to destroy and pervert, and the devil uses it to pull the wool over many today that follow blindly after some of the false prophets arising as messengers of light. I've seen it used to appeal to people's covetousness, making mechandise of the flock. So, speaking in tongues can have counterfeit possibilities, just like everything else.
Something hard to counterfeit would be for the good works to be more seen that Jesus asks about when He returns. Did you feed me, clothe me, visit me while sick, and give me shelter when I was a stranger? These would be hard to counterfeit because they envolve Agape love in giving without expectation of return.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Luke 6:30 Give to every one that asketh thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[Symes]

pentecostal girl

Speaking in tongues is Biblical. It is just that we need to follow what Paul says we should do when speaking in tongues.

1 Cor. 13:1
"If I speak in the tongues[1] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

That is the first reqirement that he makes. There are others.

1 Cor. 14:4-6;
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"

Speaking in tongues jsut for the sake of speaking in tongues does not edify God.

1 Cor. 14:7-9
"Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air"

Unless it can be understood then God say not to do it.

1 Cor. 14:13
"For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says."

One must be ale to interpret what is said.

1 Cor. 14:18,19
"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue."

We must follow the advice given here.

1 Cor. 14:27,28
"If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God"

So if there is no one to interpret do not speak in tongues.

 

[Celestron]

It does say in corinthians that, 'where there are tongues, they will be stilled'.
Ok.. so if God doesn't change, then he changed there...

i think that's a little help about the 'change' part.

...i am not refuting tongues here, though. I do think, though, that perfection does its work and does still the languages that God has given people to speak.

 

[seangoh]

Sort of, I want to know why some don't believe that speaking in tougues can't happen in this time era. Some people believe that speaking in tougues only happend in the new testament only. I want to know why they believe that way.

Ok i'll just give a quick but clear answer.
The only kind of tongue speaking which is useful is speaking in other languages which people can understand. The exception is, if no one understands, then there must be an interpretor as what Symes had mentioned. Other than these two cases, tongue speaking would no longer be biblical and in my opinion, it would not have any benefit of advancing the kingdom of God.

There are many churches that speak in tongues. But you have to decide whether that kind of tongue speaking is biblical and i think the best benchmark you have is Acts 2.

Biblical tongue speaking does exist i believe, just that it's not that pronounced. I haven't heard any cases in modern years that it happened but i believe God wouldn't withhold this gift for no reason.