The "Saints" are More Righteous Than We Are...

[mont974x4]

Where is the Scripture that shows that the ones who finished the race are praying?

 

[NoDoubt]

Where is the Scripture that shows that the ones who finished the race are praying?

Someone just might quote Rev 5:8

That verse gets used often but it's completely taken out of context.

 

[mont974x4]

Someone just might quote Rev 5:8

That verse gets used often but it's completely taken out of context.

Yes, I expect to see that one. However, you are right, it will be used either out of context or more will be read into it than the text allows.

 

[jckstraw72]

I dont know.
Is our righteousness of ourselves?
I thought it was Christs righteousness
we see in us.

of course it is Christ's righteousness, but others are surely closer to Christ than I. i can barely pray at night without falling asleep -- many many others could spiritually slap me around like a little girl. they have more Christ in them.

 

[jckstraw72]

how is Rev. 5:8 taken out of context, and how do you know your interpretation is correct?

 

[Catholic Christian]

IN an other thread, I was told that God hears the "Saints"
'prayers' because they're more righteous, already being
in Heaven....

James 5:16
"...The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much..." (KJV)

 

[sunlover1]

of course it is Christ's righteousness, but others are surely closer to Christ than I. i can barely pray at night without falling asleep -- many many others could spiritually slap me around like a little girl. they have more Christ in them.

They may be walking in Christ more, but their righteousness is the same righteousness that He
gave to you.
It's not of themselves is it?

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise:
for we have before proveda both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one...

James 5:16
"...The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much..." (KJV)

I cut and pasted this for you.
it blessed me and so I am passing it on.
I think if you read it slowly and consider it,
that it may be a real revelation to you as it
was to me.
Simon loves to pray, he'd enjoy this too.


James tells us something we wouldn’t know from reading the Old Testament account when he tells us Elijah prayed earnestly. What does it mean to pray earnestly? The Greek word translated ‘prayer’ is ‘deesis’, which means’ ‘to bow down’. The Greek word translated ‘earnestly’ is ‘proseuche’, which means ‘to pray’.
This means Elijah could speak to Ahab with certainty and could pray effectively because he was bowed down, submitted to the Scriptures. You see, Deuteronomy 11:16-17— a text Elijah would surely have known — says this:
Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the Lord’s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the Lord giveth you.
Aware of this promise, Elijah could say to Ahab, ‘Because of what you have done in this land by introducing Baal worship, it’s not going to rain.’...

Then here's the rest of the article.

 

[Thekla]

this can be a sticky issue, but the testimony to the prayers of the righteous are found throughout the old and new Testaments; Moses, Elias, Abraham's prayer for his nephew, Lot. The NT includes not only the instruction on the prayer of the righteous, but Stephen's prayer for the forgiveness of those who persecuted him. Where would Paul be without his cousin Stephen's entreaty to God for the forgiveness of Saul ?

there are different gifts to each, Paul teaches. The depth and variety of the gift varies -- there is the mater of spiritual maturity (depth), etc. Not all are teachers, etc. But who are the vessels to question the potter ? If some are given greater efficacy in prayer, glory be to God for this gift, which through some confers benefit to all that are His...

 

[sunlover1]

this can be a sticky issue, but the testimony to the prayers of the righteous are found throughout the old and new Testaments; Moses, Elias, Abraham's prayer for his nephew, Lot. The NT includes not only the instruction on the prayer of the righteous, but Stephen's prayer for the forgiveness of those who persecuted him. Where would Paul be without his cousin Stephen's entreaty to God for the forgiveness of Saul ?

there are different gifts to each, Paul teaches. The depth and variety of the gift varies -- there is the mater of spiritual maturity (depth), etc. Not all are teachers, etc. But who are the vessels to question the potter ? If some are given greater efficacy in prayer, glory be to God for this gift, which through some confers benefit to all that are His...

(your holy kiss)
Oh I agree that some people have more faith and different ministries etc.
I happen to have the gift of faith, and I'm very grateful
for that.
But I dont feel my gifting is superior to yours or his or theirs etc.

IT's what we do with those gifts that matters.
We need to use our gifts for the community.

Did I understand your point?

 

[Thekla]

(your holy kiss)
Oh I agree that some people have more faith and different ministries etc.
I happen to have the gift of faith, and I'm very grateful
for that.
But I dont feel my gifting is superior to yours or his or theirs etc.

IT's what we do with those gifts that matters.
We need to use our gifts for the community.

Did I understand your point?

His peace to you, sister Sunlover

not only a variety of gifts, but their depth as well. Your post about Elijah (Elias) was exactly it ! Deithomen (let us pray earnestly to God). We may earnestly pray, but Elijah, Abraham, Moses --- these (as you pointed out) were obedient; their obedience to a depth that is hard to comprehend.

Those in heaven are also obedient, supra-obedient.

I imagine there were many praying for rain, yet God held back. It was Elijah's prayer that was answered - a 'fool' who hid in the desert, fed by a carrion bird.

But no matter the gift, or the depth of obedience of some,

it is a gift from God, and like the cross and resurrection, a gift for all.
(If we will have it)

Good to see you here, Sunlover

 

[Rick Otto]

of course it is Christ's righteousness, but others are surely closer to Christ than I. i can barely pray at night without falling asleep -- many many others could spiritually slap me around like a little girl. they have more Christ in them.

That's exactly how they used to treat me, before I learned to do my own homework.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Dead saints can't pray, because they're dead.

Man, I hope I never go to YOUR heaven. In MY heaven, everyone is ALIVE.

 

[Rick Otto]

They're more saved.

 

[sunlover1]

His peace to you, sister Sunlover

not only a variety of gifts, but their depth as well. Your post about Elijah (Elias) was exactly it ! Deithomen (let us pray earnestly to God). We may earnestly pray, but Elijah, Abraham, Moses --- these (as you pointed out) were obedient; their obedience to a depth that is hard to comprehend.

Don't underestimate the power of God in you and those others of His body.
These men were to be an ensample to us, but we too
have the Spirit of God in us.
In fact, those had the Spirit of God ON them,
we have the Spirit IN us.
We should actually have more power to live Christlike.

Those in heaven are also obedient, supra-obedient.

Dunno, I sure would think so lol.
Then again look at what the devil pulled.
I have no idea how that all works.

I imagine there were many praying for rain, yet God held back. It was Elijah's prayer that was answered - a 'fool' who hid in the desert, fed by a carrion bird.

I think that's very cool too.
His submission to the Word, isnt that what it says?
Right, Elijah's prayer was answered.
Fervent, effectual, righteous...

But no matter the gift, or the depth of obedience of some,

it is a gift from God, and like the cross and resurrection, a gift for all.
(If we will have it)

Good to see you here, Sunlover

Amen ~!

He loves to hear our prayers, maybe lives to have
fellowship with us, desires to hear the sound of
praise on our lips and in our hearts.
We are HIS. HIs property.
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.
He must be so proud of His son, and in turn
proud of us, when we behave as His kids would.


ONly that ONE time, did He say "no" to Jesus.
And it was because of US.

Jesus, by the grace of God, tasted death for
every man, ...

for it became him,
for whom are all things, and by whom are all things,
in bringing many sons unto glory,
to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


11 For both he that sanctifieth
and they who are sanctified are all of one:


for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him.
And again,
Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

SUCH LOVE.
BEHOLD, What Love the Father has bestowed up9on us,
that WE should be called the SONS of GOD.






K, I'll stop now. (Too much coffee?)
I dont think that was a derailment though.
I think it is all about how very much more
God loves us than we can ever begin to imagine.
And that's something that can never be said enough.

sunlover

 

[Rick Otto]

Does obedience get double-extra supra deep?

(Sorry, I'm kindova superlatry junkie)

 

[mont974x4]

That's exactly how they used to treat me, before I learned to do my own homework.

A truely educated Christian is the enemy of religion.

 

[jckstraw72]

depending on how you define religion of course. i dont like syaing things like that bc it looks to outsiders like we're atheists or something. some of my Protestant friends have a shirt that says "Religion kills" and hot dang i would never wear that.

 

[mont974x4]

That sounds like a good tattoo.

 

[jckstraw72]

my one friend wore it to high school and an atheist came up and was like oooh thats awesome religion sucks! and then she had to be like oh no no im a Christian. just seems too problematic for me, although i know what you mean.

 

[sunlover1]

depending on how you define religion of course. i dont like syaing things like that bc it looks to outsiders like we're atheists or something. some of my Protestant friends have a shirt that says "Religion kills" and hot dang i would never wear that.

Right, you do need the right audience, otherwise
an explanation...

Most of my current friends wouldnt bat an eyelash at it,
but thats a great point.