The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

BobRyan said:

I find your logic "illusive" just then - care to explain your meaning?



Well "I see me" providing the reference to "rest" in Ex 20 in the OP for this thread... and I "see you" claiming that there is no reference to rest in my statements on this thread.

I am simply asking that you explain.

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my meaning was you ignored the rest of the post. you're still ignoring the rest of the post and would rather play these silly games.

no one is able to satisfy the demands of the 4th commandment. one who obverses and one who does not are equally guilty of it. This is the problem that you refuse to comment on. Only when we look to Christ, who has fulfilled the 4th commandment, can we satisfy the demands of the commandment and receive the rest of God.

BobRyan said:

The rest of what post??



Paul says clearly in Rom 8:4-10 that only the lost "do not and indeed CAN not submit to the LAW of God"

We both knew that by now.



How is it that you think that the fact that you have creative writing skills and can made statements we don't find in actual scripture is -- "a problem for me"??

I find your logic illusive just then.



so then you did or did not read Romans 8:4-10?? Paul says this of all the commandments - we obey them all via the indwelling Spirit of Christ who enables us to obey rather than live in rebellion against the Word of God.

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you're repeating yourself. what post? go back to the beginning and read the post its referencing. While you're at it look at the other post about Rom 8 that I replied to from the first time you brought it up

You fail to show when Paul uses "God's law" it's inclusive the 10 commandments, specifically, the 4th commandment and I see no reason why it would be. Paul uses the term "God's law" to contrast the law in 1 Corinthians 9 and interchanges it with "Christ's law" so how can you show when he uses this term he means to include the 4th commandment?

you also fail to demonstrate how we can satisfy the demands of the law, specifically the 4th commandment and if we can't how do we get access to God's rest? This is a gapping problem and one that has already been answered in scripture. But if we demand we must keep the 4th commandment then what hope do we have in getting the rest of God through the 4th commandment?

BobRyan said:

You claiming that the Sabbath is ceremonial and not for "all mankind"

Only to be shown "again" that the Sabbath was specifically appointed to gentiles in Isaiah 56:6-8 and "all mankind" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth -- Is 66:23 and that almost all Christian denominations have a document of faith affirming all TEN of the Ten commandments for Christians

Then to find "you" admitting that "yes" you have already been shown that??

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I've never used the term ceremonial law and I have explicitly agreed with you saying the Sabbath is for all mankind. Are you confusing me with someone else?

BobRyan said:

Tracing back through the history of your posts on this thread is not one of the ways I spend my day - If you can make your point in a post to me - go head and do it.

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it's on you for ignoring posts, I'm just bringing it to your attention.

BobRyan said:

you said you replied from "the first time" where you point at my post showing that I already dealt with rest in the OP??

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I said "I see you ignore the rest" meaning the rest of the post. You seemed to have misinterpreted the meaning

BobRyan said:

1. Paul says that the "first commandment with a promise" in God's Law is the 5th commandment Eph 6:2 a statement that only holds true in the TEN ... no wonder then that almost all Christian denominations have a document of faith affirming all TEN of the Ten commandments for Christians.

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Eph 6 doesn't use the term "God's law" so this fails to connect Paul use of the term "God's law" with the 10 Commandments, specifically the 4th commandment.

BobRyan said:

2. Paul shows in Romans 7 and 13 that when He uses that term "LAW" he includes the TEN just as Christ did before the cross in Matthew 19... no change before or after when it comes to the moral law of God.

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you mean the same Romans 7 that opens saying we have died to the law and are no longer bound to it?

or the same Romans 13 that says love fulfills the law? Even going through 10 commandment laws as examples invoking the 10 commandments but he doesn't even prioritize the 4th commandment and it just gets lumped in with "whatever other commandment there may be" (Paul's words not mine)

BobRyan said:

3. James shows the same thing in James 2.

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that's a pretty vague reference. James speaks of the royal law which is the same as Christ's law (which Paul interchanges with God's law). We know this law, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and love your neighbour as yourself (paraphrase). Roman 13, James 3 explicitly point this out, but this only shows a greater law and would counter your logic of saying we must still keep the Sabbath. According to Paul and James as you have pointed out this royal law fulfills the Sabbath. Is this what you mean by keeping the sabbath? loving your neighbour as yourself?

BobRyan said:

4. Christ is the one speaking the TEN Commandments at Sinai - Heb 8:6-13 those are His Commandments according to Paul.

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Hebrews 8 reveals to us the flaws of the old covenant, it even goes so far as to say the old is obsolete. I fail to see how this shows us Paul's use of "God's law" is speaking about the 10 commandments, but rather quite the opposite, however, since it doesn't even use the term its not the best support for that argument.

BobRyan said:

Assuming you know you are addressing born again Christians on this board -- that is a direct contradiction with your creative writing vs Romans 8:4-11 where we find that the lost "do not submit to the law of God and indeed CAN not" - or where you talking only about the lost just then??

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is everyone who disagrees with you called "creative writing" why don't I call your ideas "creative writing" too. these broad platitudes are unproductive to the conversation and enter into ad hominem attacks. Let's keep our discussion by assuming the best out of each other not the worst. Calling someone's post "creative writing" is implicit a fabrication, aka a lie, this is not becoming a conversation and not something I wish to engage in. Let's take the next steps in our discourse by respecting each other.

Romans 8 use this term "God's law" or "law of God". You quickly identify this as meaning the 10 commandments but where does it say this? You have failed to show a connection. 1 Cor 9 Paul explicitly contrasts the "law" with "God's law" and called God's law "Christ's law". This lines up with Roman 13. What Paul demonstrates is he is talking about different things when he refers to an unqualified "law" which is law of the old covenant, versus qualifying it with "God's law" which, by his own admission, is Christ's law.

You have also failed to comment on the problem that we are unable to keep the sabbath according to the old covenant and we will fail each time, being as worthy as the one who does not keep it. This is where Hebrews 8 exposes the problem of the old covenant.

BobRyan said:

I have agreed with the statement that all the commandments are only available to be kept - by the born-again believer as Romans 8:4-11 points out ... not by the lost.

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You don't seem too interested in a serious conversation about this and my posts just seem to be hitting a brick wall. You are welcome to hold your positions but be ready to defend them in an open online forum otherwise why show up? I can't keep repeating that you're ignoring my points, either you need to stop ignoring them or I need to stop engaging, right now it's the latter. Enjoy your day.

Unless you are as holy and perfect as God, then according to God's Law you are under a curse.

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"The curse of the law"

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”

So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11 “And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the com. , deceived me, and by it slew me.”

Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin.

So who’s the bad guy here, the law, or sin?
If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture.

And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Neh 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, entered into a curse,and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandents of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

“Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.”
Daniel 9:11

-And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:33-37
“Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven;for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the cityof the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”


-And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it! Peace.

DamianWarS said:

Hebrews 8 reveals to us the flaws of the old covenant, it even goes so far as to say the old is obsolete.

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The old covenant was not at fault,
it was [the people] that was at fault.

Hebrews validates the Law, by God putting them directly into there hearts.

bible says in future, Israel shall "lothe
themselves" for Sabbath breaking,
continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 20:21 ..the children rebelled against me,”
“They polluted [MY sabbaths].…”

He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23). “Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes, and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”

“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered…with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],

and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35). “Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,

SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.… And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me… and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).

43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord God.


Ezekiel 36

21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,

Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes], and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.

28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:

and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Semper-Fi said:

The old covenant was not at fault,
it was [the people] that was at fault.

Hebrews validates the Law, by God putting them directly into there hearts.

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I didn't say it was at fault I said it was flawed. v7 confirms this. it's baked in this way to point to Christ.

DamianWarS said:

I didn't say it was at fault I said it was flawed. v7 confirms this. it's baked in this way to point to Christ.

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BobRyan needs to come to Christ and get saved and born again. The Law will have then done its job and he can get on with the new life that Jesus died to give us.

Aussie Pete said:

BobRyan needs to come to Christ and get saved and born again. The Law will have then done its job and he can get on with the new life that Jesus died to give us.

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I'm quite certain @BobRyan already has new life through Christ he just doesn't seem to understand it's full measure. In essence, he keeps a system that desperately cries out for Christ to come and restore us and at the same time paradoxically affirms Christ has already done this.

DamianWarS said:

I'm quite certain @BobRyan already has new life through Christ he just doesn't seem to understand it's full measure. In essence, he keeps a system that desperately cries out for Christ to come and restore us and at the same time paradoxically affirms Christ has already done this.

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Maybe, but I would not be so sure. Galatians 3 affirms that trusting anything to save us apart from Christ is dangerous. I've pointed this out to him but he is adamant. I would not care except for the constant bombardment of the forum with his legalism. Some people are impressionable and that troubles me.

Whatever