THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
That's not what the verse says. It says to them that are under the law...

And who was it that was "UNDER THE LAW"? Yep both JEWS and GENTILES for all have sinned.

ROMANS 3:19 NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

What is the CONTEXT of v19?

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that THEY ARE ALL (Jew and Gentile) UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE (Jew and Gentile) RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none (Jew and Gentile) that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all (Jew and Gentile) gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none (Jew and Gentile) that does good, no, not one (Jew and Gentile).
[13], Their throat (Jew and Gentile) is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness (Jew and Gentile):
[15], Their feet (Jew and Gentile) are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways (Jew and Gentile):
[17], And the way of peace have they (Jew and Gentile) not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes (Jew and Gentile).
[19] NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH (Jew and Gentile) MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD (Jew and Gentile) MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Your referenced passage says all are under sin, it doesn't say all are under the law. Both are entirely different things. The word under means - controlled, managed, or governed by sin is defined as - that which is done wrong, an offence. Something more literal about the under the law in verse 19 is in the law.
Well that statement has no truth in it. You did not answer the question asked of you again and did not address the scriptures posted that disagree with you which was. How can you be "UNDER THE LAW" *ROMANS 3:19 if your not guilty of breaking it? ROMANS 3:9-19 has already shown that ALL (JEW and GENTILES) are all under SIN, all have broken God's LAW and stand guilty before God. You cannot be under sin without breaking God's LAW when SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4
If you obey something you're controlled by it.
Where does it say God's LAW (10 commandments) controls you? The role of God's LAW (10 commandments) is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is SIN that controls us not God's LAW (10 commandments). It is God's LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when we break God's Commandments *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7.
IOW those in unrepentant sin don't have salvation. Since you claim to keep the law and try very hard to force this bondage on others, its you that doesn't have salvation because you don't keep the law and commit the same sin on a regular basis. That's unrepentant sin no matter how you say it.
Why pretend and make statements no one has ever said to you? God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Hope this helps
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The law has been by-passed for grace.

Nope. No it hasn't. God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's GRACE is for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH through the operation of God *COLOSSIANS 2:12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES WE ESTABLISHE THE LAW.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD to ESTABLISH God's LAW through FAITH in all those who are BORN AGAIN BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *1 JOHN 3:9.

Hope this helps.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I left nothing out. I responded in full detail on every point, issue and passage in your posts. You can follow the links and search where I then added another post because you're upset I didn't say anything about every verse. So what you're doing is bearing false witness - one of the famous 10, right. I've linked my responses to those posts you link above. I told you very plainly I'm not going to c&p them to where you want. So you can be in denial all you wish. Keep lying cause you'll surely attain the right to eat from the tree of life.

Nope. No you didn't :).

Did you want to have another go at them? You simply chose to ignore the content and scriptures in these posts and did not address anything in them accept to provide your own words over God's WORD. Detailed response to your claims about ROMANS 7:6 can be found in the following links..

Romans 7:6 Part 1 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 2 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 3 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 4 linked click me.

The linked posts above show the CONTEXT you leave out of your interpretation of ROMANS 7:6 and your errors of interpretation of this scriptures. Sorry brother your claims are false ones as already addressed to you by God's WORD in previous posts. Your only repeating yourself. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. So go cast your words on those who aren't participating in the New Covenant. Like I said communication with you is impossible.

There is only no condemnation for SIN if you have been FORGIVEN and your no longer CONTINUING to practice the SIN (breaking God's LAW) you have been forgiven of. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not at all brother. I do not reject scripture. I do however reject your interpretation of them as you leave out the context of what you are quoting which has led you to errors in your interpretation of the scriptures. This has been shown through God's WORD in many posts to you now.

Thanks great question let's discuss it. Before the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc).

If BEFORE the written Word was given at SINIA there was the SPOKEN Word of God what makes you think that God's people did not KNOW about God's LAWS including God's SABBATH? Let's look at some examples that suggest God's LAW was known through the SPOKEN WORD BEFORE the WRITTEN WORD was given to God's ISRAEL.

When CAIN and ABEL were born it is clear from God’s WORD that there was SIN offerings for remission of sin as shown in GENESIS 4:1-7. We are latter told that ENOCH and NOAH walked with God *GENESIS 5:24; GENESIS 6:8 so were following God’s ways. In NOAHS time the thoughts of men were only evil continually *GENESIS 6:5-7. Jesus says that what defiles a man is an evil heart that breaks God’s commandments *MATTHEW 15:16:19.

Before the Flood God made his Covenant with NOAH and his decendance *GENESIS 9:1-9. When Abraham was present God spoke to Abraham and made his covenant with him and his descendance *GENESIS 15:18. 17:2-19.

God said of Abraham that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings and sin offerings) if God's LAW was broken.
No to all this because of these words of Moses -

Deut 5 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

That covenant follows which is by the words of Moses -

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

You claim it's this law that all your above people had.

This is the law that was added because of sin until the Seed came as found in Gal 3:19. I offered no commentary about the Deuteronomy quotes. And my lose quote of Gal 3:19 isn't commentary nor misapplied.
If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed.
As I quoted Moses about the law, Abraham didn't do this in accordance with the law given to Israel because he didn't have it.
Some more examples...

God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus says the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20).
Yes because of sin. Not because of failure to not keep the law not yet given.
Jacob knew about SIN (breaking God's LAW) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

As time goes by God detroys mankind for evil and sin with a flood as well as Sodom and Gommorah with fire and the Epyptians with plagues *GENESIS 6:5-13; GENESIS 13:10-13; 18:20-33; 19:24; EXODUS 9:13-14. If there was no knowledge of sin there would be no punishment for it. God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD.
All without the law. Your point failed.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And who was it that was "UNDER THE LAW"? Yep both JEWS and GENTILES for all have sinned.

ROMANS 3:19 NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
Where was all the world given the law?
What is the CONTEXT of v19?

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that THEY ARE ALL (Jew and Gentile) UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE (Jew and Gentile) RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none (Jew and Gentile) that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all (Jew and Gentile) gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none (Jew and Gentile) that does good, no, not one (Jew and Gentile).
[13], Their throat (Jew and Gentile) is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness (Jew and Gentile):
[15], Their feet (Jew and Gentile) are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways (Jew and Gentile):
[17], And the way of peace have they (Jew and Gentile) not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes (Jew and Gentile).
[19] NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH (Jew and Gentile) MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD (Jew and Gentile) MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
Yes you post this before. There's nothing showing anyone but Jews being under the law in your entire quote. It's very true about the statements made in verses 9-18.
Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
No it disagrees with you. Read what's in the text.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well that statement has no truth in it. You did not answer the question asked of you again and did not address the scriptures posted that disagree with you which was. How can you be "UNDER THE LAW" *ROMANS 3:19 if your not guilty of breaking it? ROMANS 3:9-19 has already shown that ALL (JEW and GENTILES) are all under SIN, all have broken God's LAW and stand guilty before God. You cannot be under sin without breaking God's LAW when SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4
Yes there's truth in my statement. You can pretend there's no law until violation if you wish. Just doesn't make it so. The law didn't invent sin. If it did all the wickedness before the law wasn't sin. See Rom 5 especially verse 13.
Where does it say God's LAW (10 commandments) controls you? The role of God's LAW (10 commandments) is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is SIN that controls us not God's LAW (10 commandments). It is God's LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when we break God's Commandments *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7.
Like I said having a conversation with you is impossible.
Why pretend and make statements no one has ever said to you? God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Hope this helps
What exactly is it you're trying to convey to me? Isn't it obedience to the law? Wouldn't that mean submission to the law. Wouldn't that be the same as controlled by the law? Why or shy not?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And who was it that was "UNDER THE LAW"? Yep both JEWS and GENTILES for all have sinned.

ROMANS 3:19 NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
Even your quote proves what you said above is incorrect.
What is the CONTEXT of v19?

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that THEY ARE ALL (Jew and Gentile) UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE (Jew and Gentile) RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none (Jew and Gentile) that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all (Jew and Gentile) gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none (Jew and Gentile) that does good, no, not one (Jew and Gentile).
[13], Their throat (Jew and Gentile) is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness (Jew and Gentile):
[15], Their feet (Jew and Gentile) are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways (Jew and Gentile):
[17], And the way of peace have they (Jew and Gentile) not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes (Jew and Gentile).
[19] NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH (Jew and Gentile) MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD (Jew and Gentile) MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
Every statement in verses 3-18 are true about all mankind. Your intention with verse 19 is incorrect as the verse distinctly says some very different.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Nope. No it hasn't. God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's GRACE is for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH through the operation of God *COLOSSIANS 2:12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13.
The law isn't required to have God's grace. Noah is a prime example. There's no evidence Noah had the law given to Israel long after Abraham. As I said elsewhere Pharaoh didn't have the law either yet knew adultery was wrong and even punishable by death. He didn't have the law and it was never given to Egyptians.
WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.
Pistis has zero to do with the law. Obedience to the faith has nothing to do with some kind of religion or religious movement/organization/group.
TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD
What did what in your quote? I don't see anything about the law. The law isn't even mentioned in the chapter.
ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You insert your church's doctrine in this passage. Who gave you or someone else if you're quoting the Clear Word.
Romans 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?
How can you question my use of the word "control" upon quoting the above?
ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES WE ESTABLISHE THE LAW.
Which means what to you? I understand acknowledgement of - not obligation to.
...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.
I agree with your definitions here. I don't understand how you think either applies to the law.
.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD to ESTABLISH God's LAW through FAITH in all those who are BORN AGAIN BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *1 JOHN 3:9.

Hope this helps.
I've no idea how you can define grace in this way. What you're really doing is teaching your church's false doctrine that Christians are required to follow the law. Let me state that yet another way - your church teaches Christians are enabled to keep the law. The real proof is most of them are very far from this required ideal and none of them match up to it.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
No to all this because of these words of Moses - Deut 5 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Hmm.. All I hear is you saying no to God's WORD. Who should we believe you or God? I know who I BELIEVE *ROMANS 3:4. You do know brother that with your statement above you just denied nearly 100 (96) scriptures showing that before the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD right? Does that not worry you that your interpretation of DEUTERONOMY that people before the written Word did not know God's SPOKEN word is in error?

That covenant follows which is by the words of Moses - Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. You claim it's this law that all your above people had. This is the law that was added because of sin until the Seed came as found in Gal 3:19. I offered no commentary about the Deuteronomy quotes. And my lose quote of Gal 3:19 isn't commentary nor misapplied.

Your only telling half the story. You mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT with GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that God's WORD in the NEW COVENENT tell us give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL' SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to? Here let's add the scriptures back in that you leave out of your interpretation of what you believe the OLD COVENANT was.

The OLD COVENANT was made up of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL *DEUTERONOMY 4:13 and the SHADOW laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. Here let's add the scriptures because ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

THE SHADOW LAWS OF THE MOSAIC BOOK WAS PART OF THE OLD COVEANANT

EXODUS 24 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the covenant.

2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

.................

CONCLUSION: The OLD COVENANT was made up of two sets of laws which included 1. GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The MOSAIC SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

Both these sets of LAWS had very different PURPOSES under the OLD Covenant.

1. GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) where to provide a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS.

2. The MOSAIC SHADOW laws from the BOOK OF THE COVENANT of laws and ORDINANCES which included the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws were laws for the REMISSION or FORGIVENESS of sin which included the Leviticial PRIESTHOOD and ORDINACES for sin offerings for the SNACTUARY SERVICE. PRIESTHOOD, SACRIFICAL SIN OFFERINGS for FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

Sorry brother, ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
As I quoted Moses about the law, Abraham didn't do this in accordance with the law given to Israel because he didn't have it.Yes because of sin. Not because of failure to not keep the law not yet given.All without the law. Your point failed.

GENESIS 26:5 Because that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.

The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings and sin offerings) if God's LAW was broken.

If God's people before the written WORD had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin.

So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you as well as the close to 100 scriptures posted earlier showing before their was the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD (here click me). Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Where was all the world given the law?Yes you post this before. There's nothing showing anyone but Jews being under the law in your entire quote. It's very true about the statements made in verses 9-18.No it disagrees with you. Read what's in the text.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Let's see why.

You may need to re-read your interpretation of what it means to be “UNDER THE LAW” ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 is talking about both JEWS and Gentiles all being UNDER SIN. To be "UNDER THE LAW" according to ROMANS 3:19-22 means to be GUILTY before God of SIN (BREAKING God's LAW).

UNDER THE LAW

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

Let's have a look where Paul proved that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN"

ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN

PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW. Can you see now brother that you are the one here that is leaving out CONTEXT from ROMANS 3:19? I write this only as a help to you.

Paul says in ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. Are you seriously trying to argue that the scripture does not mean what it says? The CONTEXT of ROMANS 3:20 is ROMANS 3:9-20 which is stating that all [JEWS and GENTILES] are under sin v9. There is none righteous v10. While v11-18 are emphasizing the same points as v9-10 that we are all sinners. v19-20 then build on wha was written in from verse 9 [verse 9 was in reference to ROMANS 2:3-23]. Now the overall CONTEXT here is that the law being referred to here is the 10 Commandments. ALL are under sin 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..

ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],
[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?
[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?
[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?
[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!

[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19],
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is.

PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.

Happy to provide more scripture on the topic but I believe there is no point. You may need to revisit your bible Brother Ace. As to the other things your proclaiming how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is if you are yet to understand what the OLD COVENANT was? The OLD TESTAMENT scriptures are the key that unlocks the NEW. If you have lost your key how can you open a locked door * JOHN 10:9?

................

CONCLUSION: Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-13 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW"?

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (sin). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us. That we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

Can you see the CONTEXT you have left out and what ROMANS 3:19 means to be UNDER THE LAW? It means to stand guilty before GOD of breaking it *SIN.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear.

Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes there's truth in my statement. You can pretend there's no law until violation if you wish. Just doesn't make it so. The law didn't invent sin. If it did all the wickedness before the law wasn't sin. See Rom 5 especially verse 13.Like I said having a conversation with you is impossible.
What exactly is it you're trying to convey to me? Isn't it obedience to the law? Wouldn't that mean submission to the law. Wouldn't that be the same as controlled by the law? Why or shy not?

Hmm all I hear is your words again denying God's WORD and not responding to the scriptures and the post you are quoting from.

You did not answer the question asked of you again and did not address the scriptures posted that disagree with you which was. How can you be "UNDER THE LAW" *ROMANS 3:19 if your not guilty of breaking it? ROMANS 3:9-19 has already shown that ALL (JEW and GENTILES) are all under SIN, all have broken God's LAW and stand guilty before God. You cannot be under sin without breaking God's LAW when SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

Where does it say God's LAW (10 commandments) controls you? The role of God's LAW (10 commandments) is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is SIN that controls us not God's LAW (10 commandments). It is God's LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when we break God's Commandments *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Sorry brother, ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Even your quote proves what you said above is incorrect.Every statement in verses 3-18 are true about all mankind. Your intention with verse 19 is incorrect as the verse distinctly says some very different.

Brother these are God's WORD not mine. Who was it that was "UNDER THE LAW"? Yep both JEWS and GENTILES for all have sinned.

ROMANS 3:19 NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
What is the CONTEXT of v19?

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that THEY ARE ALL (Jew and Gentile) UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE (Jew and Gentile) RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none (Jew and Gentile) that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all (Jew and Gentile) gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none (Jew and Gentile) that does good, no, not one (Jew and Gentile).
[13], Their throat (Jew and Gentile) is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness (Jew and Gentile):
[15], Their feet (Jew and Gentile) are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways (Jew and Gentile):
[17], And the way of peace have they (Jew and Gentile) not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes (Jew and Gentile).
[19] NOW WE KNOW THAT WHAT THINGS SOEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SPEAKS TO THEM THAT ARE UNDER THE LAW; THAT EVERY MOUTH (Jew and Gentile) MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD (Jew and Gentile) MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Sorry brother, ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The law isn't required to have God's grace. Noah is a prime example. There's no evidence Noah had the law given to Israel long after Abraham. As I said elsewhere Pharaoh didn't have the law either yet knew adultery was wrong and even punishable by death. He didn't have the law and it was never given to Egyptians. Pistis has zero to do with the law. Obedience to the faith has nothing to do with some kind of religion or religious movement/organization/group.What did what in your quote? I don't see anything about the law. The law isn't even mentioned in the chapter.You insert your church's doctrine in this passage. Who gave you or someone else if you're quoting the Clear Word.How can you question my use of the word "control" upon quoting the above?Which means what to you? I understand acknowledgement of - not obligation to.I agree with your definitions here. I don't understand how you think either applies to the law.I've no idea how you can define grace in this way. What you're really doing is teaching your church's false doctrine that Christians are required to follow the law. Let me state that yet another way - your church teaches Christians are enabled to keep the law. The real proof is most of them are very far from this required ideal and none of them match up to it.

Here you go again brother sadly speaking your own words over God's WORD and denying around 100 scriptures posted earlier showing that before the WRITTEN WORD God's people had the SPOKEN WORD of GOD. NOAH, ABRAHAM, JOSEPH, JACOB, MOSES, ADAM AND EVE, CAIN AND ABEL etc etc (here click me) all had the SPOKEN WORD of GOD before the WRITTEN WORD of God given at Mt Sinai.

GENESIS 26:5 Because that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.

GENESIS 6:9, These are the generations of Noah. NOAH WAS A RIGHTOUES MAN, AND PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS; NOAH WALKED WITH GOD.

Are you seriously trying to argue brother that NOAH walked with God in SIN? As posted earlier BEFORE the WRITTEN WORD of GOD the scriptures make it very clear that God's people had the SPOKEN WORD of GOD and had God's LAWS BEFORE Mt Sinai (here click me)
Your response was simply to ignore close to 100 scriptures posted that disagree with you.

How can you have God's GRACE without God's LAW when it is GOD'S LAW that leads to God's GRACE? It is because we are all SINNERS (broken God's LAW) that we need God's GRACE. As shown through the scriptures earlier that you simply ignored...

God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's GRACE is for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH through the operation of God *COLOSSIANS 2:12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES WE ESTABLISHE THE LAW.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD to ESTABLISH God's LAW through FAITH in all those who are BORN AGAIN BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *1 JOHN 3:9.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you and there is a lot of it. You cannot have God's GRACE without God's LAW because it is God's LAW that leads to God's GRACE *GALATIANS 3:22-25

Only sent in LOVE as a help to you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Nope. No he didn't ROMANS 14 is not talking about the SABBATH of God's 4th commandment. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.
Each person should be convinced in his own mind.

If that's what you want to believe. It's no my place to correct your thinking.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Each person should be convinced in his own mind. If that's what you want to believe. It's no my place to correct your thinking.

What man esteems is not what God esteems. What man esteems is an abomination in God's eyes * LUKE 16:15. Your trying to read into ROMANS 14 what it is not saying. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Are you seriously trying to argue brother that NOAH walked with God in SIN? As posted earlier BEFORE the WRITTEN WORD of GOD the scriptures make it very clear that God's people had the SPOKEN WORD of GOD...

After being spoken, likely they took notes on some form of paper. Likely the ink got smeared, so eventually it was written in stone.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Romans 8,2
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Dan61861
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED ....

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ....

All of the law brought death. Under Grace from Jesus, we have life.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Romans 8,2
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Romans 6,14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

James 1:25
But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Dan61861
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.