The Sabbath commandment directly refutes Evolution's teaching on origins

[BobRyan]

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

As Jesus said "Abraham SAW My day and was glad" - John 8. FEW people today can say God supernaturally showed them a video of the life of Christ - the actual real day-to-day.

I don't think the same words were used when communicating the gospel to Abraham as were used when communicating it in the New Testament.

you are free to speculate on that all you wish. I am sticking with the Bible.

 

[Leaf473]

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

As Jesus said "Abraham SAW My day and was glad" - John 8. FEW people today can say God supernaturally showed them a video of the life of Christ - the actual real day-to-day.



you are free to speculate on that all you wish. I am sticking with the Bible.

Yes, going with the scriptures!

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Good News beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you all the nations will be blessed.”

To Abraham: In you all the nations will be blessed.

To the Corinthians:
Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Same gospel principles, salvation by faith. Different words.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fervent]

Sounds like "two gospels".

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"
• Matt 7 - both Moses and Elijah STAND WITH CHRIST - in glory even before the cross happens
• 1 Peter 1 says "The SPIRIT OF CHRIST in them" was preaching the gospel in the OT
• Gal 3 says there was never a time when the LAW was some "other way" of salvation for mankind

There is only one gospel, certainly. But there are two covenants.

 

[BobRyan]

There is only one gospel, certainly. But there are two covenants.

Agreed.

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is the ONE and only Gospel covenant and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

Who saw Christ's day in vision - according to Christ in John chapter 8.

The "Old Covenant" made with Israel as a nation-covenant (not a salvation covenant) -- is a "type" of the "OBEY AND LIVE" covenant in Eden in Gen 2.

 

[BobRyan]

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

As Jesus said "Abraham SAW My day and was glad" - John 8. FEW people today can say God supernaturally showed them a video of the life of Christ - the actual real day-to-day.

I don't think the same words were used when communicating the gospel to Abraham as were used when communicating it in the New Testament.

you are free to speculate on that all you wish. I am sticking with the Bible.

Yes, going with the scriptures!

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Good News beforehand to Abraham

And as Jesus said in John 8 - Abraham was show the days of Christ - in vision (As already noted in my post above)

And 1 Peter 1 states that it was the "Spirit of Christ" in the OT writers predicting "The sufferings of Christ AND THE GLORIES to Follow"

 

[Fervent]

Agreed.

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is the ONE and only Gospel covenant and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

Who saw Christ's day in vision - according to Christ in John chapter 8.

The "Old Covenant" made with Israel as a nation-covenant (not a salvation covenant) -- is a "type" of the "OBEY AND LIVE" covenant in Eden in Gen 2.

The gospel covers both covenants, but the relationship has changed. The shadows of the law like Sabbath and the festivals are found in their fulness in Christ. No need for the shadow when you have the substance.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The gospel covers both covenants, but the relationship has changed. The shadows of the law like Sabbath and the festivals are found in their fulness in Christ. No need for the shadow when you have the substance.

I can see how one could come to this conclusion if glancing at this scripture, but if one were to study this verse and want to reconcile the scriptures its very clear this passage is not referring to one of God's engraved Ten Commandments.

Its very clear this passage is referring to the blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins which pointed to Jesus as He became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification when we turn from sin (breaking God's law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7) and turn to Christ and walk in obedience to Him. John 14:15

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Look familiar? Colossians 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Christ became our Passover Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins. 1 Corinthians 5:7 It has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath which is one of God's eternal commandments written by God's own finger, spoke by God's own voice which God placed together and no man can separate as it resides in God's heavenly kingdom Revelation 11:19.

If you back up to Colossians 2:14 it makes this passage abundantly clear it is not referring to one of God's commandments.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:1
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

What Colossians 2:14 is referring to:

1. They are ordinances that have to do with sacrifices

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

2. They were handwritten
2 Chronicles 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
Deuteronomy 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished,

3. They were contrary
Deuteronomy 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


If one were to look at these scriptures in their Truth we would know clearly it is not referring to one of Gods Ten Commandments. We are sanctified by God's Truth through His Word John17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151

 

[Leaf473]

And as Jesus said in John 8 - Abraham was show the days of Christ - in vision (As already noted in my post above)

And 1 Peter 1 states that it was the "Spirit of Christ" in the OT writers predicting "The sufferings of Christ AND THE GLORIES to Follow"

Yes, and as I go on to say in that post,

To Abraham: In you all the nations will be blessed.

To the Corinthians:
Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

So again, same gospel principles, salvation by faith. Different words.

Peace be with you

 

[Fervent]

I can see how one could come to this conclusion if glancing at this scripture, but if one were to study this verse and want to reconcile the scriptures its very clear this passage is not referring to one of God's engraved Ten Commandments.

Its very clear this passage is referring to the blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins which pointed to Jesus as He became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification when we turn from sin (breaking God's law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7) and turn to Christ and walk in obedience to Him. John 14:15

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Look familiar? Colossians 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Christ became our Passover Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins. 1 Corinthians 5:7 It has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath which is one of God's eternal commandments written by God's own finger, spoke by God's own voice which God placed together and no man can separate as it resides in God's heavenly kingdom Revelation 11:19.

If you back up to Colossians 2:14 it makes this passage abundantly clear it is not referring to one of God's commandments.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:1
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

What Colossians 2:14 is referring to:

1. They are ordinances that have to do with sacrifices

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

2. They were handwritten
2 Chronicles 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
Deuteronomy 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished,

3. They were contrary
Deuteronomy 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


If one were to look at these scriptures in their Truth we would know clearly it is not referring to one of Gods Ten Commandments. We are sanctified by God's Truth through His Word John17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151

Kind of interesting you bring Hebrews into it, which lays out how Christ is superior to the law in every way not just as a sacrifice. All good things found in the law were but a shadow, with the image found in Christ. Not simply sacrifices, but every single aspect. What is old has become obsolete, and to bring it into practice again is to make yourself a transgressor.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Kind of interesting you bring Hebrews into it, which lays out how Christ is superior to the law in every way not just as a sacrifice. All good things found in the law were but a shadow, with the image found in Christ. Not simply sacrifices, but every single aspect. What is old has become obsolete, and to bring it into practice again is to make yourself a transgressor.

Not sure where it says in Hebrews we are free to break the Ten Commandments and can now worship other gods, bow to images, covet , murder or break any of God's commandments- perhaps you can point this out.

Breaking God's law is what defines sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul goes right to the Ten Commandment to point out sin when breaking Romans 7:7

Hebrews 10 sure does not say one is free to sin and break God's law, in fact it says quite the opposite, that the great sacrifice of Jesus no longer remains for those who continue to willfully sin (break God's law)

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, and as I go on to say in that post,



So again, same gospel principles, salvation by faith. Different words.

Peace be with you

Do you have an interesting take on how the Sabbath as we find it in the Bible refutes evolution... or are you posting for a different topic???

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I am perplexed that people take Genesis as a literal historical account. I was watching PBS last night all about the Ark in Kentucky.

Independent Lens | We Believe In Dinosaurs | Season 21 | Episode 10 | PBS

The Bible and science collide amid the battleground of a Kentucky creationism museum.

www.pbs.org

It seems clearly to be figurative. It is too bad that our capacity to appreciate narrative in its own right has been diminished. As if unless something is literally true it is not true at all. Rather than looking at Genesis and asking how was the universe created, maybe it would be better to ask what it tells us about God and ourselves.

 

[Leaf473]

Kind of interesting you bring Hebrews into it, which lays out how Christ is superior to the law in every way not just as a sacrifice. All good things found in the law were but a shadow, with the image found in Christ. Not simply sacrifices, but every single aspect. What is old has become obsolete, and to bring it into practice again is to make yourself a transgressor.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. If we go with the NIV interpretation, the entire law is only a shadow.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10 - New International Version

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All - The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped...

www.biblegateway.com

Peace be with you all

 

[Leaf473]

Do you have an interesting take on how the Sabbath as we find it in the Bible refutes evolution... or are you posting for a different topic???

I was following up on the idea of the gospel preached to Abraham that you brought up.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Leaf473]

Not sure where it says in Hebrews we are free to break the Ten Commandments and can now worship other gods, bow to images, covet , murder or break any of God's commandments- perhaps you can point this out.

Breaking God's law is what defines sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul goes right to the Ten Commandment to point out sin when breaking Romans 7:7

Hebrews 10 sure does not say one is free to sin and break God's law, in fact it says quite the opposite, that the great sacrifice of Jesus no longer remains for those who continue to willfully sin (break God's law)

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

That's a good point. I followed up as post #739 over here
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...end-at-the-cross-part-2.8245628/post-77058480

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's a good point. I followed up as post #739 over here
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...end-at-the-cross-part-2.8245628/post-77058480

Sorry you think all the law is abolished, if read in context you would see what law it is referring to Hebrews 10:1-10. Your understanding does not reconcile with the Words of Jesus Matthew 7:21-23. God's Word does not teach lawlessness, but we have discussed this too many times to probably come to any agreement on it.

 

[eleos1954]

I am perplexed that people take Genesis as a literal historical account. I was watching PBS last night all about the Ark in Kentucky.

Independent Lens | We Believe In Dinosaurs | Season 21 | Episode 10 | PBS

The Bible and science collide amid the battleground of a Kentucky creationism museum.

www.pbs.org

It seems clearly to be figurative. It is too bad that our capacity to appreciate narrative in its own right has been diminished. As if unless something is literally true it is not true at all. Rather than looking at Genesis and asking how was the universe created, maybe it would be better to ask what it tells us about God and ourselves.

Jesus didn't take Genesis as "figurative". PBS? LOL. Try Using the actual Word of God.

Exodus 20

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the lsojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[Leaf473]

Do you have an interesting take on how the Sabbath as we find it in the Bible refutes evolution... or are you posting for a different topic???

I was following up on the idea of the gospel preached to Abraham that you brought up.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

But if anyone is interested in my particular take on the Sabbath and evolution, I see two ways of looking at it:

If the days of creation are ages, then it doesn't really refute evolution.

If the days in creation are 24-hour days, then that deals with evolution, but brings up a different issue: that first seventh day had a particular starting point on Earth, a place where the sun was setting. It would seem reasonable that 7 Days later, the Sabbath would again start at that same point.

Peace be with you all

 

[Leaf473]

Sorry you think all the law is abolished, if read in context you would see what law it is referring to Hebrews 10:1-10. Your understanding does not reconcile with the Words of Jesus Matthew 7:21-23. God's Word does not teach lawlessness, but we have discussed this too many times to probably come to any agreement on it.

Please see my response as post #740 here
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...end-at-the-cross-part-2.8245628/post-77058563

Peace be with you

 

[BobRyan]

I was following up on the idea of the gospel preached to Abraham that you brought up.

Which was a response to Fervent's comment about the Sabbath not being important today as the Word of God since we have the Gospel (which is also not getting at the issue of Sabbath vs evolution... but it is how this got started).

Then you appear to take it to "gospel is not preached to Abraham" in some way ,, even if scripture says it was.

But since it was preached to Abraham - then the point about no need for it once the gospel is preached - appears to end that objection with the "Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 text.

============== so history looks like this (and we can go back to discussing the relationship between Sabbath and belief in evolution's doctrine on origins)

No one is arguing the Sabbath is any day but the 7th day, the issue is one of closeness of relationship. The Israelites only had the law to have a relationship with God, we've got Jesus who is the substance of the law.

Sounds like "two gospels".

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"
• Matt 7 - both Moses and Elijah STAND WITH CHRIST - in glory even before the cross happens
• 1 Peter 1 says "The SPIRIT OF CHRIST in them" was preaching the gospel in the OT
• Gal 3 says there was never a time when the LAW was some "other way" of salvation for mankind

There is only one gospel, certainly. But there are two covenants.

Agreed.

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is the ONE and only Gospel covenant and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.

Who saw Christ's day in vision - according to Christ in John chapter 8.

The "Old Covenant" made with Israel as a nation-covenant (not a salvation covenant) -- is a "type" of the "OBEY AND LIVE" covenant in Eden in Gen 2.

• Gal 1:6-9 there is only "ONE Gospel"
• Gal 3:8 that ONE Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

As Jesus said "Abraham SAW My day and was glad" - John 8. FEW people today can say God supernaturally showed them a video of the life of Christ - the actual real day-to-day.

I don't think the same words were used when communicating the gospel to Abraham as were used when communicating it in the New Testament.

you are free to speculate on that all you wish. I am sticking with the Bible.

Yes, going with the scriptures!

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Good News beforehand to Abraham

And as Jesus said in John 8 - Abraham was show the days of Christ - in vision (As already noted in my post above)

And 1 Peter 1 states that it was the "Spirit of Christ" in the OT writers predicting "The sufferings of Christ AND THE GLORIES to Follow"