The Return of My Apple Challenge

[Lord Emsworth]

I'm talking about the Creation --- from Genesis 1 to Genesis 3 --- a timespan of about one year.

So? My points remain.

 

[AV1611VET]

So? My points remain.

And that is your problem. The documentation speaks about something that does not exist as it is described.

Yes --- as you worded it --- "...does not exist..."

The problem lies in how "scientists" interpret what they see.

They use a system called uniformitarianism.

In other words, since they see 6099 years of decay (entropy), they assume that 6100 years ago, that same decay was in effect.

The Bible says otherwise.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Actually, I just realized that the flood is placed much later than one year after God began to create. My baaad. So, it cannot mark the end point of that one year. But what does?

And why does that which is created in the first creation account suddenly cease to exist?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Yes --- as you worded it --- "...does not exist..."

The problem lies in how "scientists" interpret what they see.

They use a system called uniformitarianism.

In other words, since they see 6099 years of decay (entropy), they assume that 6100 years ago, that same decay was in effect.

The Bible says otherwise.

I don't know if the Bible says otherwise.

Be that as it may. The earth-cosmos still does not exist, and never has, in the way it is described.

 

[Skaloop]

Actually, I just realized that the flood is placed much later than one year after God began to create. My baaad. So, it cannot mark the end point of that one year. But what does?

And why does that which is created in the first creation account suddenly cease to exist?

I think he means one year from the start of Creation to when Adam and Eve got the boot from Eden.

Which would mean, according to his earlier God/Satan example, that God was able to sustain his Creation for all of one year, while Satan has been doing it for 5,999 years.

 

[AV1611VET]

And why does that which is created in the first creation account suddenly cease to exist?

It's still here --- just functioning under a different set of rules.

Right now, this universe operates under scientific laws (as opposed to divine laws) --- with divine intervention being the exception, not the rule.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't know if the Bible says otherwise.

I do, though.

Be that as it may. The earth-cosmos still does not exist, and never has, in the way it is described.

Now you're adding "and never has" to it --- so now I must disagree with you.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I think he means one year from the start of Creation to when Adam and Eve got the boot from Eden.

Which would mean, according to his earlier God/Satan example, that God was able to sustain his Creation for all of one year, while Satan has been doing it for 5,999 years.

Thanks I got that now too. That does not get you from a flat, domed earth, submerged in the waters of the deep, with the celestial bodies set into the dome to what we really have at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think he means one year from the start of Creation to when Adam and Eve got the boot from Eden.

Which would mean, according to his earlier God/Satan example, that God was able to sustain his Creation for all of one year, while Satan has been doing it for 5,999 years.

Good job!

With one exception: my point is that Satan cannot sustain God's creation --- it's winding down.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I do, though.

OK.

Now you're adding "and never has" to it --- so now I must disagree with you.

I do not believe that you disagree with me on this point for even one iota. (What is certain is that you will disagree with my reading of Gen 1:1-2:4a)

 

[AV1611VET]

That does not get you from a flat, domed earth, submerged in the waters of the deep, with the celestial bodies set into the dome to what we really have at all.

Do you want me to quit proclaiming that?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Do you want me to quit proclaiming that?

No, waiting for you to start.

Waiting for you to start proclaiming the apple instead of oranges.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, waiting for you to start.

Indeed --- I never have --- and never will.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Indeed --- I never have --- and never will.

Do you see now why I answered your challenge the way I did? (write a semi-confuse and highly ambiguous text about it and have it interpreted by an inerrantist)

 

[Skaloop]

Good job!

With one exception: my point is that Satan cannot sustain God's creation --- it's winding down.

Maybe it is winding down, but at least Satan managed to keep it going for more than a year.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe it is winding down, but at least Satan managed to keep it going for more than a year.

Not hardly.

If I created a superbattery and kept if fully-charged, and you broke in and stole if from its charger and took it home, and no matter what you tried, you couldn't keep it from flatlining, should you get credit for "keeping it going"?

 

[Soul Searcher]

Are you sure on this?

I suppose the key phrase is "convince me that it was not some kind of magic trick"

I might believe you that you would not make this story up, but you might have been fooled. A good conman could do this to the best of us.

So just because I could be convinced (or you in this case) should NOT be enough to convince me or my friends.

I might have been "tricked" into thinking it was not a trick so to speak. I would want a 2nd (and 3rd) opinion.

If my friends reacted that way I would consider them gullible and biased.
Sure, I would appreciate it if they wouldn´t call me a liar or insinuate disingenious motives on my part, but to abandon reasonable skepticism towards unevidenced exceptional claims just because their friend makes them? That would make me question their intellectual integrity. I guess I would encourage them to be more skeptical.

There were two keys in my statement one is that if the person who supposedly created the apple was able to convince me which in itself would be no easy task and the second was that my friend would be likely to at least try and believe me.

This does not mean that my friend would blindly accept that someone created an apple out of thin air but they would believe that I believe it to be true and knwoing me they also know that if I was truly conviced of it then it is quite possible that it actually happened even if it sounds unbelievable.

My testimony would include all the info I was given to convince me that it was not a trick and when it comes to magic I am as skeptical as they come, my friends also know this and know that I am not easily fooled. Someone who didn't know me so well would never believe me unless they were just gullible.

It is also possible that after hearing my story my friend may see something that I overlooked and convince me that it was a trick afterall.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Good job!

With one exception: my point is that Satan cannot sustain God's creation --- it's winding down.

He would've have had to if God hadn't abandoned it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Not hardly.

If I created a superbattery and kept if fully-charged, and you broke in and stole if from its charger and took it home, and no matter what you tried, you couldn't keep it from flatlining, should you get credit for "keeping it going"?

Sure why not?

Besdies, If the ignoramus who built such a superbattery lacked the foresight to provide adequate security, how much credit does he get?

 

[LeeC]

There were two keys in my statement one is that if the person who supposedly created the apple was able to convince me which in itself would be no easy task and the second was that my friend would be likely to at least try and believe me.

This does not mean that my friend would blindly accept that someone created an apple out of thin air but they would believe that I believe it to be true and knwoing me they also know that if I was truly conviced of it then it is quite possible that it actually happened even if it sounds unbelievable.

My testimony would include all the info I was given to convince me that it was not a trick and when it comes to magic I am as skeptical as they come, my friends also know this and know that I am not easily fooled. Someone who didn't know me so well would never believe me unless they were just gullible.

It is also possible that after hearing my story my friend may see something that I overlooked and convince me that it was a trick afterall.

I think we actually agree - I just wanted it "fined-tuned".

This is why my money is on the James Randi foundation to filter out the crap from the real.

Thanks for your reply.

Lee