The Return of My Apple Challenge

[quatona]

There were two keys in my statement one is that if the person who supposedly created the apple was able to convince me which in itself would be no easy task and the second was that my friend would be likely to at least try and believe me.

Whereas I would expect and wish them to act as the advocatus diaboli.

This does not mean that my friend would blindly accept that someone created an apple out of thin air but they would believe that I believe it to be true and knwoing me they also know that if I was truly conviced of it then it is quite possible that it actually happened even if it sounds unbelievable.

I agree in that I would be glad if they believed that I am not being dishonest.
I think I disagree with the second part. I wouldn´t want the fact that it´s me who believes it to add to the credibilty of an exceptional claim for them.

My testimony would include all the info I was given to convince me that it was not a trick and when it comes to magic I am as skeptical as they come, my friends also know this and know that I am not easily fooled.

I am not easily fooled either. Yet, I simply don´t have the means and knowledge to look through magic tricks, for example. Many of them look quite real to me - the fact that I know this is just magic trickery is the main factor in being convinced that they are not real (along with the fact that these things would be exceptional if they were real).
Since I am unable to detect the tricks behind magic, I wouldn´t expect my friends to give much weight to the fact that I couldn´t find a "normal" explanation for what I encountered. Rather, I would expect them to notice that I am biased merely for the fact that I believe something to be exceptional/supernatural because I can´t find a "normal" explanation.

Someone who didn't know me so well would never believe me unless they were just gullible.

Someone who didn´t know me would probably think I am trying to fool him. This is what I would expect and wish my friends not to think, and am actually sure they wouldn´t.

 

[Psudopod]

I'm not sure what you meant by "changing reality"; but He couldn't let the universe go on in its glorified state, He had to intervene and do something.

I;mtalking about the 4.6billion years of history. Im talking about the ice cores, the varves, the radioactive decay, the impact craters, the supernova reminants, the fossil record. Not to mention all the evidence that shows the flood happened.

Maybe Satan's so powerful that he can make God's creation not only wind down, but alter in such away to create all this history. But that only goes back to point b: even if it's true, we can't learn anything useful from it, so we might as well carry on doing science the way we always have.

 

[AV1611VET]

He would've have had to if God hadn't abandoned it.

God didn't "abandon" it --- He gave it to Adam and Eve, who was tricked out of it by the Serpent, who offered it to Jesus, Who declined it, Who will be back soon to reclaim it and turn it back over to His Father.

 

[AV1611VET]

...so we might as well carry on doing science the way we always have.

Please do so --- as I have said before --- there's no reason [true] science and the Bible cannot get along.

 

[NailsII]

God didn't "abandon" it --- He gave it to Adam and Eve, who was tricked out of it by the Serpent, who offered it to Jesus, Who declined it, Who will be back soon to reclaim it and turn it back over to His Father.

Is it just me or does this make no sense whatsoever?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is it just me or does this make no sense whatsoever?

That's basic theology, Nails:

1. God created the universe.
2. God gave it to Adam and Eve to have dominion over it.
3. The Serpent tricked them out of it.
4. Satan then offered it to Jesus as one of the three temptations in the wilderness.
5. Jesus declined it - (Matthew 4).
6. Jesus will come back to this earth and set up His Kindom.
7. Satan will finally be defeated, and then God [the Father] will make a New Heaven and a New Earth for eternity.

 

[thaumaturgy]

That's basic theology, Nails:

1. God created the universe.
2. God gave it to Adam and Eve to have dominion over it.
3. The Serpent tricked them out of it.
4. Satan then offered it to Jesus as one of the three temptations in the wilderness.
5. Jesus declined it - (Matthew 4).
6. Jesus will come back to this earth and set up His Kindom.
7. Satan will finally be defeated, and then God [the Father] will make a New Heaven and a New Earth for eternity.

Sadly, Nails, AV is right on this one. This is what the "Former Owners' Guide To the Earth" (aka "Tha Bible") says happened.

We had our shot at running the planet, now Satan has it and Jesus wants it back but he doesn't want a lease agreement. He wants it "Fee Simple".

And I don't think Satan is gonna get his equity back on it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

God didn't "abandon" it --- He gave it to Adam and Eve, who was tricked out of it by the Serpent, who offered it to Jesus, Who declined it, Who will be back soon to reclaim it and turn it back over to His Father.

This has got to be some of the laughingly worst theology I've ever heard.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Please do so --- as I have said before --- there's no reason [true] science and the Bible cannot get along.

Nor is there any reason you should be the one who decides what [true] science is.

 

[FishFace]

That's why He documented what He did --- not to cloud the issue --- but to clarify it.

I did no such thing. A bunch of folks at the time made some stuff up. Why are you confusing the writings of men with the writings of me?
-- God.

 

[FishFace]

God didn't "abandon" it --- He gave it to Adam and Eve, who was tricked out of it by the Serpent, who offered it to Jesus, Who declined it, Who will be back soon to reclaim it and turn it back over to His Father.

Can we get an ETA on that? How soon are we talking?

 

[Psudopod]

Please do so --- as I have said before --- there's no reason [true] science and the Bible cannot get along.

But yet you say evolution is wrong.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

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But yet you say evolution is wrong.

Well, duh - if he disagrees with it, it's obviously not True Science.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Please do so --- as I have said before --- there's no reason [true] science and the Bible cannot get along.

You mean True™ Science and True™ Bible Interpretation.

 

[Catholicon]

I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

How about if *I* create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of *your* hand.

What evidence would *you* use to convince your friend I did this?

 

[dlamberth]

Without him seeing it for himself or having a video recording of it happening (in which the video would have to be analyzed for any evidence of tampering) there is no evidence. The only evidence would be me claiming you did so.

Isn't this exactly what we have in the creation story that's offered up in the Bible?

.

 

[Tiberius]

That's basic theology, Nails:

1. God created the universe.
2. God gave it to Adam and Eve to have dominion over it.
3. The Serpent tricked them out of it.
4. Satan then offered it to Jesus as one of the three temptations in the wilderness.
5. Jesus declined it - (Matthew 4).
6. Jesus will come back to this earth and set up His Kindom.
7. Satan will finally be defeated, and then God [the Father] will make a New Heaven and a New Earth for eternity.

let me fix this...

1. God created the universe.
2. God gave it to Adam and Eve to have dominion over it.
3. The Serpent tricked them out of it.
4. God, who is all knowing, gave the world to Adam and Eve, knowing full well they would be incompetant guardians of the world.
5. God punishes Adam and Eve for doing something that God knew they would do (and he also knew that they couldn't avoid it, because then God's foresight about it would have been wrong, and God can't ever be wrong) and that God could have even prevented them from doing, which is very fair of him. And some people say that God even meant for them to mess it up - and God still punishes them for it!
6. This is a good and kind and loving and fair God who deserves our unconditional love, because he's never done anything to hurt us (despite setting into motion a series of events which God knew for a fact would require us to be punished with death and would also require his son to be Humanity's whipping boy).
7. Satan then offered it to Jesus as one of the three temptations in the wilderness.
8. Jesus declined it - (Matthew 4).
9. Jesus will come back to this earth and set up His Kindom.
10. Despite being an unspeakable evil that wants to jerk us around and ruin our lives, God lets Satan roam free on Earth wreaking his havoc despite God being able to defeat Satan at any time with a simple click of his fingers.
11. Satan will finally be defeated (when God gets bored with the show), and then God [the Father] will make a New Heaven and a New Earth for eternity.

So, a couple of questions...

Why did God give posession of the world to Adam and Eve, two people whom God KNEW would mess it up?
Why has God let Satan torment us for the last few thousand years?

 

[AV1611VET]

God, who is all knowing, gave the world to Adam and Eve, knowing full well they would be incompetant guardians of the world.

What do you think of people who have children, Tiberius? Do you think it's right? Despite the fact that they know their children are going to mess up?

 

[Catholicon]

What do you think of people who have children, Tiberius? Do you think it's right? Despite the fact that they know their children are going to mess up?

I'd hate to have YOU for a parent if that's how little faith you have in your own children and your ability to raise them.

"They know their children are going to mess up"? Talk about sentencing before trial...

 

[quatona]

What do you think of people who have children, Tiberius? Do you think it's right? Despite the fact that they know their children are going to mess up?

So parents are omniscient now?