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Featured The Restitution Of All Things

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Really?? Written by the Church? Where did you get that idea from?? The Bible was written by God though the hands of men inspired by the Holy Spirit. There was no "church" in the OT. In the NT, the Bible was written by the Apostles - not by the church - and certainly not by the councils.
     
  2. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matthew 16:18).

    Also, there is a council mentioned in Acts.
     
  3. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are people who want to believe it's true but don't see Biblical support for it, but it does perplex me how some people actually don't want it to be true. I have my doubts about universalism but I wouldn't mind it if it ended up being true.
     
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  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    If we have our reading glasses on & are paying attention, we should grasp>>>

    1. What the Restitution is.

    2. What it is not.

    3. The Restitution of the all is NOT a new view of the last 1500 years.

    Let us now consider

    The Hum of all hums=

    The Prophets

    “He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass; as showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish: and abundance of peace so long as the moon endures. He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.” Ps. 72: 6-8.

    " All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

    " All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord; and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

    "Will the Lord cast off for ever? and will he be favorable no more? Is his mercy clean gone forever? does his promise fail for evermore? Has God forgotten to be gracious? has he in anger shut up his tender mercies? Selah.

    And I said, This is my infirmity: but I will remember the years of the right hand of the Most High." - Ps. 77: 10.

    “For he says, The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger forever”. Ps. 103: 9.

    “For his anger endures but a moment; in his favor is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning.” Ps. 30: 5.

    “If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; if they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; then will I visit their transgressions with the rod, and their iniquities with stripes, nevertheless my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.” Ps. 89: 30-33.

    “The Lord is gracious and full of compassion; slow to anger and of great mercy. The Lord is good to all and his tender mercies are over all his works.” Ps. 165: 8, 9.

    " All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

    “O you that hears prayer, unto you shall all flesh come.” Ps. 65: 2.

    " All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

    "He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces. " Isa. 25: 8.

    "Look unto me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth , for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself; the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear, surely shall say: “In the Lord have I righteousness and strength.” Isa. 45: 24-27.

    "He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied."Isa. 53: 11.

    “As the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth and makes it bring forth and bud that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth, it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” Isa. 55: 10, 11.

    “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget you.” Isa. 49: 15.

    “Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke although I was a husband unto them, says the Lord. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the Lord, for I will forgive their sin and I will remember their iniquity no more.” Jer. 31: 31-34.

    “I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be your plagues: O grave, I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.” Hos. 13: 14.

    “Who is a God like unto you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger forever because he delights in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us. He will subdue our iniquities, and you will cast all their sins into the depth of the sea. You will perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which you have sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.” Mic. 7: 18, 19, 20.

    “And there was given him dominion, and glory and a kingdom, that all people, nations and languages should serve him: his dominion is an ever lasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” Dan. 7: 14.
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  6. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know Peter wrote all of TWO epistles. What about the rest of the NT? You are grasping at straws.
     
  7. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I follow The Councils of The Lord Jesus Christ's Church which Jesus is the head of.


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  8. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus left a A Church with Bishops and Councils and the gates of Hades did Not prevail against it.

    It has continued for almost 2,000 years and heresies have been defeated again and again.

    The Heresies always seem to pop up in slightly different forms though.


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  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Those are some great points. I agree.
    It requires some research to find the answers to the biblical questions.
    If you haven't seen it already, this is a good place to start.

    New Saviour of All Main Page
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Follow the Councils? That's telling.
    The person that knows Christ can follow His council rather than the Councils of men. Imagine that.

    John 10:27
    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

    2 Corinthians 10:12
    We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise.
     
  11. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Jesus left A Church and Bishops on Earth that had The Holy Spirit Of God within them.

    • These Bishops Collectively met together to Affirm Othodox Theology and Condemn Heresies.

    • The Holy Spirit worked through The Leaders of The Church and the gates of hell did not and have not prevailed against The Church.

    • The Heresies were Condemned and Defeated By These Bishops Of Jesus' Church who have The Holy Spirit of God in Their Hearts who directed The Councils and Gave His Council To Them.


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  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Are you claiming that the Body of Christ, the church (small c), is contained within and limited to Eastern Orthodoxy?
     
  13. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Please look more carefully at these passages. Several are describing the future. God planned to use Israel to bring the world to God, but that only happens at the end. In the meantime many die unreconciled. Perhaps they are reconciled after death, but those passages really don't deal with that. They're also talking about nations. There can certainly be individuals in them who aren't involved.

    I checked one of your quotes, Hos 13:14. NRSV understands it as sarcasm. Based on the context I'd agree. The Word commentary says "The understanding of the couplet and triplet which comprise v 14 hinges on how one interprets ambiguous Hebrew clauses. If the first four are declarative statements (and אהי is translated “I shall be” or the like), there is some cause to consider the verse partly a promise rather than a threat. In light of the fifth clause, however (“Pity is hidden from me”), the first four would seem best translated as questions (see note a). Yet even נחם (here “pity”) might mean “a change of heart” (cf. the verb נחם, Niphal in 1 Sam 15:11, 35). The noun occurs in the OT only here, and is thus not definable with certainty. The context, nevertheless, is one of judgment, and it is therefore hard to attribute a hopefulness to these words."
     
  14. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm stating that The Holy Spirit moved through These Bishops at These Councils to finalize and affirm Orthodox Christian Doctrines.


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  15. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That council was eventually accepted by most of the West, sort of. It's dubious whether you can consider it an ecumenical council, as the Pope explicitly forbade it from meeting. But today it is generally considered ecumenical, because of its acceptance in the West.

    Of course Protestants often accept only the first four councils. I tend to agree with that judgement. I even have questions about Chalcedon. The problem isn't its substance. It is about the best you could do using the philosophical concepts they were using. But the process behind it (and even Nicea, to be honest) wasn't really Christian. They should have done more work in getting various parties together. You really can't do theology by politics. The aftermath made it clear just how bad a mistake it was. The following councils tried to clean up the mess, but resulted in alienating parts of the Church, and possibly weakening it enough that they were unable to resist Muslim incursions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Which they were then pleased to enforce on the rest of the Christian world outside of "Orthodoxy" (capital O). ??? --- And so it seemed fitting to carry the same torch under the flag of these councils of men? Coming onto these topics to DECLARE "anathema" even the "thought" of Universalism. Even though you don't claim that the Body of Christ, the church (small c), is contained within and limited to Eastern Orthodoxy. Is that a fair assessment?
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That confirms my point, sort of.
    The Body of Christ, the church (small c), is NOT contained within and limited to Eastern Orthodoxy.
     
  18. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This Is My Answer :

    The Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.


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  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Hedrick: The words of the prophets are breathing down upon me! They stir my inner man with what shall indeed be! Every last one of the verses quoted are in the Realm of the ages to come AKA, in the fullness of time/ the dispensation of the fullness of time. They are certain, and as surely as the Living One "has cherished" restoring the radical all of pas in Christ Jesus the Lord shall be!

    All creation, every last dimension home in Him
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Offer

    Imagine this scenario. An automobile manufacturer builds a vehicle model which it hopes will become a great success. During testing, however, it becomes apparent that the car suffers from a severe design flaw and would pose an imminent danger to the public were it released for sale. Instead of correcting the flaw, the manufacturer decides it has a better idea; it mentions the flaw on page 122 of the owner’s manual and explains there how the owner can have the defect corrected at the nearest dealership “free of charge”.

    Does it appear rather lopsided that the vehicle is sold to unsuspecting customers with little if any mention of the design defect? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for discovering the dangerous defect and having it corrected falls upon the buyer, when the builder could have fixed the problem before taking the car to market?

    Imagine this scenario.

    Because of the sin of our forefather, Adam, we all inherit sin and mortality. None of us are tested as he was, in order to see if we will be a righteous person or a sinner; we are all given mortality. Our choices have nothing to do with our present condition as sinners; we are born that way.

    As for salvation from sin and death, that will depend on finding the proper message and acting on it in an effective manner; otherwise the condition we inherit at birth will be our everlasting downfall.

    Does it appear rather lopsided that the condemnation is universal and our choice has nothing to do with it, but our salvation from that condemnation requires our active participation? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for obtaining salvation depends, in the final analysis, upon each individual, while we are in no way responsible for our needing that salvation in the first place?

    Doesn’t it seem strange that perdition is an inherited condition, while salvation is only an “offer” made to those fortunate enough to stumble upon it?

    Fact is, salvation is not an offer we happen upon; it’s a gift.

    And a Savior is One Who saves. In 1 Timothy 4:9-11, we read, “Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.” God is the Savior of all mankind, for salvation is the destiny of all. 1 Cor. 15:20-28; 1 Tim. 4:10; Jn. 12:32; Col. 1:20; Eph. 1:10; Rom. 5:18, 19; Phil. 2:9-11.

    God is the Savior of believers especially because He prefers some from the beginning for salvation now and during the eons of the eons (2 Thes. 2:13; Rev. 20:4, 5). Others are vessels of indignation, as indicated in Romans 9, and will not be saved until the consummation mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:24.

    Salvation is not an “offer”; God enlightens all, at the time He chooses. John 1:9-13. – Kenneth Larsen-
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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