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Featured The Restitution Of All Things

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    It's a day I look forward to, when rebellion is quenched by seeing Him as He is. We often don't realize or perhaps we forget what we are called to become. Maybe this is in order to be comfortable in this present world, but we forget that we aren't supposed to be comfortable here but are to be living in preparation for "there."
     
  2. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    The restitution of all things is where Christ reconciles everyone to himself, and he sets everything right. This cannot happen if there is anyone not reconciled to himself.
     
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It began at Pentecost according to Amos ““In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David, and wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;” Amos 9:11 (NASB95). And speaking of the inclusion of the gentiles Peter says; “‘AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT, SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,’ SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.” Acts 15:16–18 (NASB95)(Not shouting; Caps are part of translation).

    But the full restoration happens on the last day in the resurrection of believers, i.e. Israel. “So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;” Acts 1:6–7 (NASB95)

    And Matthew ties this to the end of the world; ““But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” Matthew 24:36 (NASB95)

    The restitution begins with the New Birth from the time of Abel and other believers onward, to their resurrection of believers (Israel) into the new heavens and earth on the last day.
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Dave: Thank you for an inspiring post.

    The scope of Acts 15: 16-18=

    1. All mankind

    2. All Gentiles

    3. All Israel

    Yes, the radical all of Israel, described in Ezek. & Amos & Psalms as>>>

    1. A beautiful woman, full of promise.

    2. Eagerly entered into marriage unto the Lord.

    3. Vowing unto Him as she entered into covenant.>>>"all we will do and be obedient."

    BUT

    1. She was NOT an obedient wife.

    2. She did not behave as a faithful wife.

    3. She was disobedient.

    4. She became worse than a common street harlot.

    All mankind>>>All people>>>All Gentiles>>>All Israel
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hello FL

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    600. apokathistemi ap-ok-ath-is'-tay-mee from 575 and 2525; to reconstitute (in health, home or organization):--restore (again).
    605. apokatastasis ap-ok-at-as'-tas-is from 600; reconstitution:--restitution.
    604. apokatallasso ap-ok-at-al-las'-so from 575 and 2644; to reconcile fully:--reconcile.
    ==================================
    Mat 17:11

    Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first[fn] and will restore<600> all things.

    Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

    Acts 1:6

    The-ones indeed then coming together, asked Him saying, `Lord!, if in to-the time, this, Thou are restoring<600> the Kingdom to the Israel?'
    Acts 3:21
    whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution<605> of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.
    =============================
    Definition

    Apocatastasis
    or apokatastasis (from Greek: ἀποκατάστασις; literally, "restoration" or "return") is the teaching that everyone will, in the end, be saved. It looks toward the ultimate reconciliation of good and evil; all creatures endowed with reason, angels and humans, will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom. It is based on, among other things, St. Peter's speech in Acts 3.21 ("Christ Jesus who must remain in heaven until the time of the final restoration of all things χρόνων ἀποκαταστάσεως πάντων") and St. Paul's letter to Timothy in which he says that it is God's will that all men should be saved (1 Timothy 2.4).

    For Origen, this explicitly included the devil. In effect, apocatastasis denies the final reality of hell, and interprets all Biblical references to the "fires of hell" not as an eternal punishment, but a tool of divine teaching and correction, akin to purgatory. The implication is that hell exists to separate good from evil in the soul.

    Among Catholics in the twentieth-century, this doctrine was reinvigorated especially by Hans Urs von Balthasar, who, in his book Dare We Hope 'That All Men Be Saved? (1988), expressed a qualified version of apocatastasis in which we may "hope" that all will be saved. Keeping in mind the conciliar condemnation of Origen, Orthodox theologians who tend towards universalism (the belief that all will be saved) usually argue that all may be saved.
    ==============================
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

    The Restitution Of All Things

    It has pleased the Lord to leave great truths obscure and well hidden from the prying eyes of the curious and the unbelieving. He shrouds His precious truths in mystery so that none but the earnest seekers who partake of the spirit of revelation are ever permitted to see beyond the outer shell of the letter, and behold the unfolding glories which lie concealed within the inner kernel. There is a grand statement of infinite truth which fell from the lips of God's spokesman, Moses, more than thirty-five centuries ago: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one Lord" (Deut. 6:4). For long ages men have read this amazing declaration about God and supposed it to be nothing more than a doctrinal statement about the Godhead. It is the basis for the belief in only one true and living God, which belief is called "monotheism." This verse of scripture has become the most distinctive and important statement of faith for the Jews. They call it the Shema, after the first word of the phrase in Hebrew, and they often quote it in English as "Hear, O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is One." Traditionally, a devout Jew always tried to make this confession of faith just before death.

    This surface truth of the oneness of God cannot be denied by any who believe the testimony of the scriptures. All through the Old Testament God revealed Himself to His people as one God. All the nations around Israel had many gods. They had a god for almost every need, but Israel had one God who was the all-sufficient One, and this was emphasized very strongly to the children of Israel. The Ten Commandments begin with, "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Ex.20:3). God said there is no other God with Him. There is none like the LORD and there is no God beside Him (II Sam. 7:22; I Chron. 17:20). He alone is God (Ps. 86:10). There are the emphatic declarations of God in Isaiah: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no Saviour" (Isa. 43:10-11). "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God" (Isa. 44:6). "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isa. 44:8). "I am the LORD that makes all things; that stretches forth the heavens alone; that spreads abroad the earth by Myself" (Isa. 44:24). “There is none beside Me. I am the LORD and there is none else" (Isa. 45:6). "There is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside Me. Look unto Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isa. 45:21-22). "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me" (Isa. 46:9).
    =====================================
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

    JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN ... RECONCILIATION!

    In the Bible there are a great number of words, phrases, and expressions that are especially significant in the creative and redemptive plan of God. One of the first such phrases was uttered by God Himself before ever He brought mankind into being when He said, "Let us make man in our image." This was the purpose of God condensed into about as few words as can be used. Then there were the inspired words of Isaiah when he prophesied, "Unto us a child is born; unto us a Son is given." Connected with this were the words of the angels unto the shepherds, "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord," and the proclamation of the Voice from heaven at the Jordan river, "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Now God and man were united together in one body, never to be separated, never to be divided. And there were the meaningful words spoken by Jesus on the cross, "It is finished!" and then the wonderful words of the messenger at the tomb, "He is not here, He is risen." I am quite sure that no man as yet has ever plumbed the depths of those words or their meaning to all mankind. Innumerable works have been written, countless sermons have been preached, and many beautiful hymns have been intoned about the unsearchable riches of Christ and the unspeakable glories of redemption; but truthfully, no one has yet fathomed the depths of such glorious and awe-inspiring realities.

    There are many other examples of such words and phrases, but one we want to consider in this message is the declaration of Paul in Col. 1: 20 "...by Him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto Himself." The full text reads, "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist... and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has He reconciled" (Col. 1:16-17, 20-21).

    The word "reconcile" in the Old Testament means "to cover" or "to make atonement." The many sacrifices made upon the altar served to cover over the sins of the people, making a certain kind of peace between God and man. Yet under the limited meaning of the word "atonement" we do not have the complete answer to our need, for we need more than a covering over of sin, but a complete and finished putting away thereof, never to be remembered any more. "But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year" (Heb. 10:3). "But now once in the end of the world has HE appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb. 9:26). In Christ there is no more remembrance of sin, for HE brings forth a new creation life, old things passing away, and behold, all things becoming new.

    The dictionary defines the English word "reconcile" to mean: to unite; to bring back into harmony; to settle; to make consistent or compatible. The basic Greek word dealing with reconciliation in the New Testament is ALLASSO. This simple verb means "to change" or "to exchange" . From this verb comes the compound KATALLASSO which is translated "reconciled" in Paul's epistles. Then there is an intensified compound, APOKATALLASSEIN, which is used in two places and rendered "reconciled" and "reconcile". ALLASSO is used in Acts 6:14 where Stephen is accused by false witnesses of preaching that Jesus of Nazareth would "change" the customs delivered to the Hebrews by Moses. In Rom. 1:23 the apostle Paul declares that reprobate men "changed" (in the sense of exchanged) the glory of the creator for images of the creature. In I Cor. 15:51 the apostle tells of a "mystery" concerning the resurrection when we are "changed" from corruptible to incorruptible beings. Again ALLASSEIN is used in Gal. 4:20 for a "change" of voice, and in Heb. 1:12 for a "change" of garment.
     
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  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Gardiner: Much thanks for your post.

    I hate this world system and will never rest until every last digit of it is eradicated by His exceedingly glorious appearing in my life, and the all who walk with us as broken sinners. This is no mere hope, it is hope for the hopeless: the whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated from the tyranny of change and decay!

    “Before the truth sets you free, it tends to make you miserable.” -Richard Rohr-
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I noticed some Greek words may contain up to 3 words and sometimes wonder why they are parsed and each Greek word within the Greek word be rendered.
    604. apo-kat-allasso ap-ok-at-al-las'-so from 575 and 2644; to reconcile fully:--reconcile.
    575. apo apo' a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative)
    2596. kata kat-ah' a primary particle; (prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case (genitive, dative or accusative) with which it is joined):--about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart,

    Hebrew 1:12
    and as-if a clothing Thou shall be rolling-up/elixeiV <1667> (5692) them as a cloak, and they shall be being changed/allaghsontai <236> (5691).
    Thou yet the same are and the years of Thee not shall be lacking/failing".
    [Psalms 102:25-27 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Revelation 6:14]

    1 Corinthians 15:51
    Behold! A mystery to ye I am telling. All not we shall be being reposed, all yet we shall be being changed/allaghsomeqa <236> (5691) 52 in instant, in twinkle of eye, in the last trump. For He shall be trumpeting/salpisei <4537> (5692) and the dead-ones shall be being roused uncorruptible and we shall be being changed/allaghsomeqa <236> (5691)

    I view Revelation as Covenantal, the OC/Law/Death/Hades vs NC/Grace/Life/Paradise.
    If so, couldn't this passage be the removal of 1st century OC Jerusalem and it's Temple Priesthood?

    Revelation 6:14
    The sky was removed like a scroll when it is
    rolled up<1667>. Every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    Hebrews 7:12
    For being translated/change/metatiqemenhV<3346> (5746) the Priesthood,
    out of necessity also, of Law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming/ginetai <1096> (5736),

    Hebrew 11:5 To faith Enoch was translated/meteteqh <3346> (5681) of the no to be seeing death and not was found thru translating/meteqhken <3346> (5656) him. For the God, before the translation/metaqesewV <3331> of him, he has been witnessed to have well pleased to the God.

     
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  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Little Lamb: I hate to disclose this as the know it all (LOL), but unfortunately F.L. does not have a clue why.

    What I do have is a dear friend, the one who has translated the koine into his amazing N.T. translation (Jonathan Mitchell) who will help us know less than we thinks.
     
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My friend Little Lamb: My precious wife and I have fellowship with individuals( like Jonathan) who works true humility within. This is his response to your excellent question>>.

    Each preposition has is own base idea, plus, through common usage, a wider semantic range of meanings. In my translation, I have focused on unpacking these meanings so that the English reader can have access to the potential nuances and meanings that can be observed in the Greek text. You may have noticed that in my rendering of "spirit" (pneuma) I include the meaning that is indicated by the -ma ending of this noun. That ending of a Greek noun signifies that this noun means "the effect or the result" of the noun. I took from the Concordant Key Word Concordance the literal meaning of this word: "breath-effect." It was God's Breath-effect that He blew into the nostrils of Adam to give him life. I have one NT translation that renders "Holy Spirit" as "Sacred Breath." When God breathes into us, we receive the effect of His breath: life. Now I have not abandoned the rendering "spirit," but have added the inherent nuance that the Greek word embodies.
    For a more detailed example, here are my comments on 2 Cor. 5:18-19 (yet to be published):
    1. Yet further, all things [are] (or: the Whole [is]; = all the things that exist [are])forth from out of the midst of God – the One transforming us to be completely other [than we were]
    (or: bringing us into another place or state of being; changing us to correspond with other [perceptions and conceptions]; altering us to be conformed to another [person]; changing us from enmity to friendship; reconciling us) in Himself (or: with Himself; by Himself; to Himself; for Himself), through Christ, and giving to us the attending service of, and the dispensing from, the complete transformation [for folks] to be other [than before]

    (or: the change into another [position]; the changing to correspond with other [situations; perceptions]; the alteration to be another [person]; the change from enmity to friendship; the reconciliation), [cf Rom. 8:19-21]

    The first clause could not be a more inclusive statement. Paul is restating what he said in Rom. 11:36,

    Because, forth from out of the midst of Him, then through the midst of Him (or: through means of Him), and [finally] into the midst of Him, [is; will be] the whole (everything; [are] all things).”

    This leaves nothing out; it also leaves no one out. The final destiny of all humanity is clearly stated in both of these witnesses.

    But now Paul goes on to tell us what God (i.e., humanity’s final destination) is like, and what He does:

    the One transforming US to be completely OTHER [than we were].”

    Because this is a work of God, Paul uses the verb tense that can be seen as either timeless, or without reference to process or duration. This is simply what God does… and in this He remains the same. God transforms people. The extent of this work, its scope, is clearly stated in the next verse: [the] aggregate of humanity (etc.).

    What I have rendered as “transforming… to be completely other” is commonly rendered “reconciling.” Now the idea of reconciliation is contained in the extended semantic range of the participle, but it falls far short of the explicit meanings of the elements of the compound verb katallassō. The root, allassō, means: to make other than it is; to change; to alter; (by extension) to exchange something for something else. In this verse, the addition of the prefix, kata-, can be understood as an intensifier, thus my rendering, “completely other,” with the participle, and “complete transformation,” with the noun that follows.

    Now the preposition kata has a semantic range, and so in rendering these compound words, the meanings of this prefix can enter into the resultant meaning of the verb and of the noun. So let us consider these other optional renderings:

    1. a) bringing us into another place or state of being; -- God’s reign and sovereign activities/the heavens;
    2. b) changing us to correspond with other [perceptions and conceptions]; – i.e., the new arrangement;
    3. c) altering us to be conformed to another [person]; -- i.e., conformed to Christ;
    4. d) changing us from enmity to friendship; -- with God and with one another; and thus…
    5. e) reconciling us.
    Next we observe that God does this “in Himself.” Pause, and think about what this can imply… Well, we do exist within the midst of Him (Acts. 17:28). But wait, there’s more… This phrase can also read, “with Himself, by Himself, to Himself, or/and for Himself.” Each of these options is a thought worth contemplating. Paul used this same verb, katallassō, in Rom. 5:10,

    For you see, since (or: if) WHILE continuously existing being actively HOSTILE ones (or: enemies [of people, or of God]) we WERE suddenly CHANGED from enmity to friendship by God (or: conciliated to God; or: CHANGED to be WHOLLY OTHER and to be in line, consistent and compatible IN God) through His Son’s death, much more (or: all the more, then) we will continue being kept safe and will be progressively delivered (rescued; saved; cured and restored to the health and wholeness of our original state and condition) being folks that were conciliated(fully changed from enmity to friendship and made totally other than we were) within His Life (or: in union with the life which is Him).”

    How can Paul be any more explicit about the unilateral work of Christ? He used another word for “transformation” in 3:18, above, but he is speaking here about the same things that he was speaking about there.

    Then, we see that this all happens “through Christ.” This is laid out more fully, in Eph. 2:8,

    For you see, by (or: to; in; for; with) the grace and joyous favor you are (you continuously exist being) folks having been delivered (rescued; kept safe; saved; made whole; restored to your original state and condition) so as to now be enjoying salvation through [some MSS add: the] faithfulness (or: loyalty; trust; faith; confidence), and even this not forth from out of you folks, [it is] the gift of and from God (or: the gift which is God; or: the gift pertains to God).”

    But now the baton is passed on to US, for Paul continues, “and giving to us the attending service of, and the dispensing from, the complete transformation [for folks] to be other [than before].” Here, again, we have some optional renderings:

    1. a) the change into another [position]; -- from “earth” to “the atmosphere of the spirit;”
    2. b) the changing to correspond with other [situations; perceptions];
    3. c) the alteration to be another [person];
    4. d) the change from enmity to friendship; -- the Peace of the Joining (Eph. 2:15);
    5. e) the reconciliation; -- between heaven and earth.
    This third rendering, c, that means that we are to be “another person,” suggests the idea of being born back from above – which also is completely the work of our Father. Opting for the rendering “reconciliation,” and offering what I give as “attending service” as the performance of an “ambassador,” both as per NEB, Harvey posits that: “the reconciliation is set in motion by a messenger or an embassy from the other party” (ibid p 585). That “other party” is God, in Christ. The NEB reads: “We come, therefore, as Christ’s ambassadors. It is as if God were appealing to you through us: in Christ’s name… be reconciled to God!” Reconciliation is good, but “the complete transformation [for folks] to be other [than before]” is better. Keep in mind: this announcement is intended for the whole aggregate of humanity.

    This “attending service of” and “the dispensing from,” is what the sent-forth representatives (Paul and his associates; Peter; etc.) were doing by birthing (Gal. 4:26 – they became a part of the Jerusalem which is above) the called-out communities, and then by caring for them – as through the very letter that we are presently reading. This service has continued ever since it began.

    1. as that God was existing within Christ (God was and continued being centered in, and in union with [the] Anointed One) progressively and completely transforming [the] aggregate of humanity (or: world) to be other [than it is](or: progressively bringing [the] ordered System into another level or state; repeatedly changing [the] universe to correspond with other [conditions; perceptions]; progressively altering [the] ordered arrangement of culture, religions, economy and government to be in line with another one; habitually and progressively changing [the] secular realm [of humanity] from enmity to friendship; reconciling [the] world [of mankind]) in Himself, to Himself, for Himself, by Himself, and with Himself, not accounting to them (not putting to their account; not logically considering for them; not reasoning in them) the results and effects of their falls to the side (their trespasses and offenses), even placing within us the Word (the Logos; the Idea; the Reason; the message; the pattern-forming information) of the corresponding transformation to otherness (or: the full alteration; the change from enmity to friendship; the conciliation).
    And so Paul goes on to expand the message of Goodness, Ease and Well-being, which he had just told them was this complete transformation. He points out that it was Godthat was existing within Christ. Rendered differently, “God was, and continued being” – here the verb is in the imperfect tense: a state of being that was begun in the past (either in the Incarnation, or at Jesus’ immersion by John in the Jordan River, and the Anointing by the Spirit) and continued in existence, on into the present. God wasCENTERED in, and IN UNION with [the] Anointed One.” Christ’s work on the cross was NOT to appease an offended god; Oh NO! God was WITHIN Him experiencing the beating and the death, on the cross. God and Jesus were together in this Act of giving Their Life to humanity. The mystery of this cannot really be explained, other than it was an Act of Love that completely covered humanity’s pain and death, and in Their resurrection (remember Jesus and His Father were/are One) They brought Humanity into Resurrection Life – each one to experience this in their own time and re-birth (1 Cor. 15:23).

    “God wasprogressively and completely transforming [the] aggregate of humanity to be other [than it is].” The participle in this clause is in the present tense. As you observe, we have alternate renderings on offer:

    1. a) progressively bringing [the] ordered System into another level or state; -- the term rendered “aggregate of humanity” and “ordered System” is the Greekkosmos. This is the same word used by John in Jn. 3:16, “For thus God loves the aggregate of humanity (ordered System)…” God loves everything that He made (Gen. 1:31), and He cares for all of it; here, the “ordered System” may be speaking of the “new creation” of vs. 17, above;
    2. b) repeatedly changing [the] universe to correspond with other [conditions; perceptions]; -- this may seem to be an extreme rendering, but it is legitimate; this could be seen as an allusion to Gen. 1:2-3ff, i.e., to God in His ongoing acts of creation, such as referenced in Rev. 21:5;
    3. c) progressively altering [the] ordered arrangement of culture, religions, economy and government to be in line with another one; -- God repeatedly invades history and makes changes;
    4. d) habitually and progressively changing [the] secular realm [of humanity] from enmity to friendship; -- as we see in the last clause, He has us participate in this; this extended use of the word calls to mind Jas. 2:23, where Abraham “was called ‘God's friend,’” and so here we can see “the world” being changed in order to be a part of what Abraham signifies in Paul’s teachings; we even see this change of relationship evidenced in what Jesus said to His disciples (Jn. 15:15b):
    now I have declared you folks friends, because I make intimately and experientially known to you everything (or: all things) which I heard and hear at My Father's side and in His presence;”

    1. e) reconciling [the] world [of mankind]; -- this is completely inclusive.
    Now He did, and continues doing this: in Himself, to Himself, for Himself, by Himself and with Himself. Regarding the last phrase, “with Himself,” let us call to mind Paul’s words in Gal. 2:20a,

    I was crucified together with Christ [= the Messiah], and thus it remains(or: I have been jointly put on the execution stake in [the] Anointed One, and continue in this state)... yet I continue living! [It is] no longer I, but it is Christ continuously living and alive within me!

    Putting Himself within us is what changes us – completely transforms US!

    The next statement flies in the face of the old covenant arrangement (the old kosmos). This new covenant swallowed up the old, and now – to our great joy we find that God is “NOT accounting to them (not putting to their account; not logically considering for them; not reasoning in them) the results and effects of their falls to the side (their trespasses and offenses).” What grace; what mercy! Here, Paul may be reaching back to Isa. 43:25,

    “I! I [am] He [Who] wipes out your transgressions on My [own] account; and your sins I shall not remember further” (CVOT).

    Unfortunately, much of Christianity did not get the memo – they have completely overlooked this. They not only (unlike God) hold people’s trespasses against them, they threaten folks with their imaginary “endless torment” if they don’t comply with religion’s demands. But in contrast to this, Paul instructs us that God was “even placing within us the Word (the Logos; the Idea; the Reason; the message; the pattern-forming information) of the corresponding transformation to otherness (or: the full alteration; the change from enmity to friendship; the conciliation).” Through His body, the Logos is repeatedly becoming flesh (Jn. 1:14), so that others can continue to behold His glory (3:18, above; Jn. 1:14b). What an honor; what a privilege.


    I hope that this has been helpful,

    Jonathan
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  10. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is the Answer to Every Universalism Thread :


    Thank God The Church already Condemned and Defeated Universalism in 553 A.D. Once And For All at The Fifth Ecumenical Council :



    The Anathemas of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen
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    "If Anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration will take place of demons and of impious men, Let Him Be Anathema.


    Second Council of Constantinople (553 A.D.)


    CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)

    Second Council of Constantinople - Wikipedia

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  11. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    Yeah, the problem is when people think they know better than the Councils.
     
  12. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes the councils. Fraught with politics and intrigue. Certainly worthy to put one's trust in. If apocatastasis was not to be tolerated ever, why was it not condemned in Origen's lifetime? Surely a doctrine so odioous as the reconciliation of all would have been condemned if not immediately then certainly within his lifetime but such is not the case.
     
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  13. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    I think it's going to be Eden restored .... actually re-created as He originally did in the first place before sin entered into the world and that will be the restoration of all things.
     
  14. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.


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  15. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    You could say the same about Arianism and Monothelism.

    And mentioning that the Councils were mainly about politics, show that you know nothing about them.
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Eleos: I am going to be one unhappy being if what is being considered is a return to pre-sin in Eden. When the Spirit of the Lord declares thru St. John "I create ALL things new", the scope is unparalleled newness. Eden before sin falls far, far short of "unparalleled."
     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear David: You are a young man that I trust has faith in that which exceeds councils. If not, you will find the councils fall far below that which will satisfy your deepest longings, muchly!
     
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  18. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    I'm a young man, that's why I rely on the Councils of the Church founded by Christ.
     
  19. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Garden of Eden and the sinless life. The “restoration of all things” includes changes to the earth, the way it is governed and the relationship God will have with humanity. Regarding this last change, God desires to have a close relationship with all humans similar to what He had with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before they sinned.
    Jeremiah 30:17-18 'For I will restore you to health And I will heal you of your wounds,' declares the LORD, 'Because they have called you an outcast, saying: "It is Zion; no one cares for her."' "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will restore the fortunes of the tents of Jacob And have compassion on his dwelling places; And the city will be rebuilt on its ruin, And the palace will stand on its rightful place.
    It is the blessed hoped for.
    Ps 119:166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments.
    Since the beginning, with the first move towards restoration by God, through sacrifice and education.
    Isa 42:4 He will not fail or become weak or be crushed and discouraged till He has established justice in the earth; and the islands and coastal regions shall wait hopefully for Him and expect His direction and law.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear David: The Lord Jesus Christ has NOT founded councils! The Rock upon which the Living Christ roots His Church is Himself!

    Without Me You can do nothing

    Alternate version=

    Without the councils you can do nothing.
     
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