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The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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Dear Jason: Repentance is "granted" & flows like all other aspects from the Source & Guide of the ta nta. If you do not wish to pursue discussion with me I am comfortable with that decision. If you do however, you must be prepared to stand on the koine Greek

I believe in Prevenient Grace. That God draws all men unto Himself (John 12:32). Without this drawing, no man could come to God. But God seeks to draw all men to Him. It is there under God's drawing, that men have the free will choice to repent or not. To accept the Lord Jesus or to reject Him. It is their choice (Under God's drawing). God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). When the Bible talks about granting men repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), it is talking about giving men the opportunity to repent. It is not talking about the Calvinistic doctrine of Unconditional Election if that is what you are proposing. For God granted repentance (gave opportunity to repent) to even the Gentiles (See Acts of the Apostles 11:18).
 
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Verse 17 makes no mention of "the many". V.19 does:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

"As a good illustration, consider more closely a single text, namely Romans 5:18,1 and consider first its parallel structure:

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all [humans],
so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for [them] all.

"The whole point of such a parallel structure, so typical of Paul, is to identify a single group of individuals and to make two parallel statements about that single group of individuals, and the practical effect is therefore to eliminate any possibility of ambiguity. The very ones who came under condemnation, as a result of the first Adam’s act of disobedience, will eventually be brought to justification and life, as a result of the second Adam’s act of obedience. Or, as Paul put it in verse 19: the very ones who were constituted sinners, as a result of the first Adam’s act of disobedience, will eventually be constituted righteous, as a result of the second Adam’s act of obedience. I do not know how Paul could have expressed himself any more clearly than that."

Regarding the verb "to receive" (lambano) in Romans 5:17:

Consider "..those contexts in which Paul obviously used the verb “to receive” (lambanō) in a passive sense...Paul declared, “Five times I have received [active voice] … the forty lashes minus one” (2 Cor. 11:24), we understand that he received these 39 lashes in the same passive way that a boxer might receive severe blows to the head...Similarly, in Romans 5:18 and 19 Paul was comparing the effect of Christ’s one act of righteousness on the whole mass of humanity with the effect of Adam’s disobedience, pointing out in verses 15 and 17 that the latter is far greater, and far more extensive, than the former. So even though the Reformed New Testament scholar John Murray rejected altogether the universalist interpretation of our text, he nonetheless pointed out that the “word ‘receiving’ [in 5:17] … does not refer to our believing acceptance of the free gift but to our being made the recipients, and we are regarded as the passive beneficiaries of both the grace and the free gift in their overflowing fullness.”4 According to Paul, in other words, we no more choose to experience the beneficial effects of Christ’s one act of righteousness than we chose to experience the destructive effects of Adam’s disobedience."

"...Moo has attributed to Paul a fallacious argument of the following form:

(1) Only those sinners receiving the abundance of grace will “derive the benefits of Christ’s act of righteousness” and thus be saved.

Therefore,

(2) Not all sinners will “derive the benefits of Christ’s act of righteousness” and thus be saved.

"The premise sets forth a necessary condition of salvation, namely that a sinner must receive “the abundance of grace” in order to be saved, and the conclusion draws the inference that, therefore, some sinners will never meet that necessary condition. But the inference is obviously fallacious—as is the following inference of exactly the same form: only those believers who remain faithful to the end will be sanctified; therefore, not all believers will be sanctified. So even if Paul were not using lambanō in a passive sense, as he surely was, Moo’s appeal to 5:17 in an effort to explain away 5:18 would merely attribute to Paul the same fallacious inference that Moo brings to the text. For unless Paul himself had drawn a similar fallacious inference, neither “the deliberately worded v. 17” nor the “persistent stress on faith as the means of achieving righteousness” carries any implication that Paul intended the second “all” in 5:18 to be more restrictive than the first. Much less would it justify Moo’s conclusion that, according to Paul, “only certain people [that is, only some sinners and not all of them] derive the benefits from Christ’s act of righteousness.” Quite the contrary. Paul’s explicit affirmation in 5:18 that Christ brings “justification and life” to all humans already entails that all of the necessary conditions of such justification and life will eventually be met. So you can hardly challenge the universal scope of the second “all” in 5:18 merely by pointed out, as Moo does correctly, that the right kind of faith is one of these necessary conditions."

How to Read the Bible from a Universalist Perspective

There’s a reason why Paul switches from all men to many in Romans 5:19. Because not all men are made righteous by Jesus’ sacrifice. The gift came unto all men (verse 18) yet only those who receive the gift shall reign in life with the one (verse 17) and many are made righteous (verse 19). If all men were made righteous by the one Paul would’ve had no reason to switch from all men to many. He would’ve maintained that all men were made righteous by the one. The gift has been given to all who are willing to receive it. But they must choose to receive it before they either die or judgement day otherwise they will not be counted among the righteous and will be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity.
 
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FineLinen

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I believe in Prevenient Grace.

Me to! Please welcome A. W. Tozer

“Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.

Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow.

We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him.”¹
 
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Me to! Please welcome A. W. Tozer

“Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.

Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow.

We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him.”¹

Yes, but it is our responsibility to respond of our own free will to God's drawing. It is never forced. A man can resist God's drawing and call. This is why we live this life. It truly matters. Our choices here in this life will have everlasting consequences.
 
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FineLinen

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There’s a reason why Paul switches from all men to many in Romans 5:19. Because not all men are made righteous by Jesus’ sacrifice. The gift came unto all men (verse 18) yet only those who receive the gift shall reign in life with the one (verse 17) and many are made righteous (verse 19). If all men were made righteous by the one Paul would’ve had no reason to switch from all men to many. He would’ve maintained that all men were made righteous by the one. The gift has been given to all who are willing to receive it. But they must choose to receive it before they either die or judgement day otherwise they will not be counted among the righteous and will be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity.


Dear BNR: Take a few moments and consider this>>>>

The same polus "made sinners" in Adam1 are the polus "made righteous" in the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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FineLinen

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Yes, but is our responsibility to respond of our own free will to God's drawing. It is never forced. A man can resist God's drawing and call. This is why we live this life. It truly matters. Our choices here in this life will have everlasting consequences.

Dear Jason: your broken will is unable to respond to the Call! The call, as in all things, begins in the Master, and thus ends in the Master. He calls, we follow.

One of the many fundamental truths hidden in plain sight in the Bible, is the truth that when God calls we come, and when He commissions, we go forth in His name....PERIOD! The general and popular concept that God's call is a matter of an offer to come, and His commission is an offer to go forth serving, each respectively subject to our agreement, is the height of contrariety in respect to how Jesus, as Lord, operates administratively in matters of the kingdom of God. Jesus' choice of a word to indicate the effect of the call of God sets the scene for our understanding: In Jn. 6:44, Jesus testified that, "No man can come unto me, except the Father who hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV)

He Comes; He Calls; We Follow
 
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Assuming you grasp what perfunctory genuflections entails in the willing subjection of every being in every dimension of the heavens and the earth and the underworld, and what that willing subjection IN the Name of all names means; your assumption the Father will not bring to pass His desires, His wants, and His mighty will is baffling!

Strong's Greek: 2309. θέλω (theló) -- to will, wish

I have 2 verses for ya. Luke 12:10 and Matthew 7:21. I don’t write the Bible I just teach what it says and only what it says. Now according to these verses will everyone repent and be saved?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Dear BNR: Take a few moments and consider this>>>>

The same polus "made sinners" in Adam1 are the polus "made righteous" in the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Before I can honestly consider what your suggesting I need to hear how Luke 12:10 and Matthew 7:21 result in the salvation of everyone. I cannot ignore a single scripture to fit my personal beliefs.
 
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Dear Jason: your broken will is unable to respond to the Call! The call, as in all things, begins in the Master, and thus ends in the Master. He calls, we follow.

One of the many fundamental truths hidden in plain sight in the Bible, is the truth that when God calls we come, and when He commissions, we go forth in His name....PERIOD! The general and popular concept that God's call is a matter of an offer to come, and His commission is an offer to go forth serving, each respectively subject to our agreement, is the height of contrariety in respect to how Jesus, as Lord, operates administratively in matters of the kingdom of God. Jesus' choice of a word to indicate the effect of the call of God sets the scene for our understanding: In Jn. 6:44, Jesus testified that, "No man can come unto me, except the Father who hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV)

He Comes; He Calls; We Follow

Okay, so you don't believe in Prevenient Grace then.
 
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FineLinen

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“Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.

"Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow."

"We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him.”¹
 
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“Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.

"Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow."

"We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him.”¹

Simply put, prevenient grace is the grace of God given to individuals that releases them from their bondage to sin and enables them to come to Christ in faith but does not guarantee that the sinner will actually do so. Thus, the efficacy of the enabling grace of God is determined not by God but by man.

Source:
What is prevenient grace?

Calvinists even debate against Prevenient Grace because they do not think we have free will to reject God's grace when we are confronted with the drawing or enabling of God's grace as a choice. Calvinists believe in Irresistible Grace (Which sounds like what you are proposing).
 
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FineLinen

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Calvinists even debate against Prevenient Grace because they do not think we have free will to reject God's grace when we are confronted with the drawing or enabling of God's grace as a choice. Calvinists believe in Irresistible Grace (Which sounds like what you are proposing).

Dear Jason: I believe man is a will. He is a stubborn will. I also believe in the God of thelo!

 
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Simply put, prevenient grace is the grace of God given to individuals that releases them from their bondage to sin and enables them to come to Christ in faith but does not guarantee that the sinner will actually do so. Thus, the efficacy of the enabling grace of God is determined not by God but by man.

Source:
What is prevenient grace?

Calvinists even debate against Prevenient Grace because they do not think we have free will to reject God's grace when we are confronted with the drawing or enabling of God's grace as a choice. Calvinists believe in Irresistible Grace (Which sounds like what you are proposing).
Luke 12:4-5
(4) "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. (5) But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
 
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FineLinen

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The Divine Fire

https://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/tu...ivine_fire.htm

THE OPERATION OF THE DIVINE FIRE DEPENDS ON WHAT IT OPERATES ON.

This is one of the most marked peculiarities of common fire. It scatters water; it melts wax; it destroys wood; it hardens clay; it purifies metal. It makes silver valuable; it makes dross worthless. And so with the Divine fire. The apostle dwells on its testing power (1 Corinthians 3:13); but here its actual moral effect on differing characters is indicated. Take classes of character in Malachi's time, and show the different effects which Divine dealings had upon them. Take types of character now, and show how Divine dealings soften or harden.

THE DIVINE FIRE IS DESTRUCTIVE OF THE FORMS OF THINGS, NOT OF THINGS.

Science now explains that common fire destroys nothing; it only Changes the forms and relations of things. When the state of the wicked is irremediable by any existing moral forces, then their form and relation must be changed. As in the time of the Flood, humanity had to be put in new conditions. God's fire destruction's always begin a new regime. - R.T.
 
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Luke 12:4-5
(4) "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. (5) But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I believe that passage just fine. Please give me some context of what you are trying to say by this passage.
 
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Dear Jason: I believe man is a will. He is a stubborn will. I also believe in the God of thelo!


Okay. I am going to ask you. Do you believe man has the capacity to resist God's grace? Yes, or no?
 
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Dear Jason: Not forever!!!!!!!!!


So this is just a delayed version of Calvinism’s Irresistible Grace. So Previenant Grace is just temporary in your view and it does not really mean anything in the grand scope of eternity.
 
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On that day they will say to me. This changes nothing. Nowhere does he say they will not enter heaven on that day. He said not everyone who calls Lord Lord will enter heaven. If at a later time everyone does enter heaven then this statement is false.

The reason they won't enter on "that day" (Mt.7:22) is because they are unrighteous (Mt.7:21-23), just like those Paul refers to here:

1 Cor.6:9-10 "Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Are you implying that Paul was lying when he later says those unrighteous ones became saved & therefore could inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Cor.6:11 "And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

And if Paul wasn't lying when he said that, why would Jesus be lying if He believed like Paul that unrighteous people can enter God's kingdom of heaven?

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Taking away the world's sin (Jn.1:29) shall make the world sinless. So, yeah, all will be saved.

According to a number of commentators the "kingdom of the heavens" (Mt.7:21) is associated with Christ's millennial age kingdom. So exclusion from this kingdom would not necessarily mean a person will never be saved.

"The characteristic phrase is “the kingdom of the heavens”. This refers to Daniel's prophecy, “And in the days of these kings the God of the heavens shall set up a kingdom which shall not be harmed for the eon, and the kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall crush and terminate all these kingdoms.... (Dan.2:44)." (Concordant Commentary)

Rev.5:10 and You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Rev.20:4c And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Exodus 19:6
And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelites."

Mt.7:21 Not everyone saying to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the *one* doing the will of My Father in the heavens.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

What is "that day" (Mt.7:22) referring to? Possibly "the kingdom of the heavens" (v.21) itself as the millennial (1000 year) age kingdom of Christ? Peter says 1000 years (a millennium) is as a "day" to God (2 Pet.3:8) & also speaks of the "day of the age" (2 Pet.3:18):

Young's Literal Translation
2 Pet.3:18) and increase ye in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to him is the glory both now, and to the day of the age! Amen.
 
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