The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[ClementofA]

There is no mention of justification or purification in hell anywhere in the scriptures.

There is no Scripture that denies it. No Scripture says anyone will never be saved. Since Scripture reveals universalism, those who go to any "hell" will be saved.

There is one jugdgement day not two or an eternal period of judgement as you suggest.

I suggested no such thing. And "hell" itself is judgement. Those there are being judged & hearing the words of God (cf. Lk.16:19-31).

Is satan going to hell to be sanctified?

Satan will be saved (Phil.2:9-11; Col.1:16,20; Rev.5:13, etc).

 

[FineLinen]

So this is just a delayed version of Calvinism’s Irresistible Grace. So Previenant Grace is just temporary in your view and it does not really mean anything in the grand scope of eternity.

Poor dear Jason: you must try to focus. What is temporary is the little stubborn tiny wills of rebels saying "no!"

Do you know what being IN the Lord Jesus Christ means? If you do, you should be on the way to understanding every being, in every dimension of the heavens, the earth & the underworld bowing in worship IN/EN the Name of Jesus Christ the Saviour of the ta panta!

 

[ClementofA]

There’s a reason why Paul switches from all men to many in Romans 5:19. Because not all men are made righteous by Jesus’ sacrifice. The gift came unto all men (verse 18) yet only those who receive the gift shall reign in life with the one (verse 17) and many are made righteous (verse 19). If all men were made righteous by the one Paul would’ve had no reason to switch from all men to many. He would’ve maintained that all men were made righteous by the one. The gift has been given to all who are willing to receive it. But they must choose to receive it before they either die or judgement day otherwise they will not be counted among the righteous and will be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity.

It's not that men - are - already made righteous by the sacrifice of Jesus, but that they - shall - be made righteous by His sacrifice. Verse 19 uses the word "shall":

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Verse 19 uses the word "many" instead of "all" as in verse 18. Not all men have been "constituted sinners" (v.19), Christ being an obvious exception. Some would also include as exceptions those humans who have been this moment conceived, preborn babies, infants, etc. So, therefore, Paul says "many" in verse 19 rather than "all".

Rom.5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for ALL MEN, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for ALL MEN.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man THE MANY were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man THE MANY will be made righteous.

If Paul didn't wish to parallel both occurrences of "THE MANY" in verse 19, then he would have said "some" or "few" instead of "THE MANY" in the second occurrence. Clearly he was teaching by the parallel of two occurrences of "THE MANY" (v.19) that all those who "were made sinners" will "be made righteous".

 

[ClementofA]

You say that because desires us to repent and be saved that it will happen. Did God want satan and the fallen angels to turn against Him? No they did so if their own free will which God does not interfere with.

God's love & the blood of Christ shed for all sins does not have an expiry date like a carton of milk. Love Omnipotent has all eternity to wait & keep trying to save His created beings. And given His willingness & ability to draw all to Himself an infinite number of times through eternity, it is mathematically impossible for anyone to reject Him an infinite number of times. Each time the person has a free choice to choose or reject God there is a chance he will choose God. Given an infinite number of such chances, the odds are impossible that he will not eventually choose God. So all will be saved.

 

[FineLinen]

Welcome to the Ultimate recovery program

"God rescued us from dead-end alleys and dark dungeons. He’s set us up in the kingdom of the Son he loves so much, the Son who got us out of the pit we were in, got rid of the sins we were doomed to keep repeating.

Christ Holds It All Together

We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created.

For everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible, rank after rank after rank of angels—everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him.

He was there before any of it came into existence and holds it all together right up to this moment. And when it comes to the church, he organizes and holds it together, like a head does a body.

He was supreme in the beginning and—leading the resurrection parade—he is supreme in the end.

From beginning to end he’s there, towering far above everything, everyone. Everything of God finds its proper place in him without crowding. Not only that, but>>>

all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe—people and things, animals and atoms—get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the cross."

-The Message-

 

[ClementofA]

“And every one who shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬

Luke gives a crystal clear example. The words aiṓn and aiṓnios are not even present in this example. Simply put blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

What is the consequence that will not be pardoned (or “let off”, Lk.12:10) for blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Luke 12:10 doesn't say. Could it be death, whether in “this age or in the age to come” (Mt.12:32), e.g. the millennium? Perhaps an imminent or immediate death, and or divinely sanctioned capital punishment. A death that ends their opportunity for salvation by grace in their mortal life & ships them off to corrective punishment, such as in a place the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) went to? For as long as it takes. Consider the following passages of Scripture where death is the penalty for blasphemy that the blasphemers were not pardoned from:

27 Also if one person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering. 28 The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven. 29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them. 30 But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31‘Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt will be on him.’” (Numbers 15:27-31)

Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

28 A man that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:28-29)

Compare also these Scripture passages referring to death as the penalty that was not pardoned:

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit…why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost… Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost (Acts 5:3-6, 9-10).

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (1 John 5:16)​

But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, “Surely this iniquity shall not be pardoned you Until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts. (Isaiah 22:14)

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)

Will God pardon the unpardonable?

Let's say a criminal whose punishment according to God's law of justice is to be stoned to death & he "shall not be pardoned" (i.e. "not be let off" the hook for this crime's punishment), so the people stone him to death. Just because the criminal was "not pardoned" (let off) from the due punishment of stoning and his crime was, in that sense, "unpardonable", that does not mean Love Omnipotent, i.e. God, ceased to love him or was incapable of - forgiving - the criminal for his - sin - postmortem if he confessed & repented.

Compare these verses in Numbers 15 which some commentaries have linked to the Spirit blasphemy Synoptic passages in the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark & Luke:

27 Also if one person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering. 28 The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be pardoned. 30 But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31‘Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt will be on him.’” (Numbers 15:27-31)

Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

Luke 12:10 And everyone who shall be declaring a word against the Son of Man, it shall be pardoned him, yet the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit shall not be pardoned.

Luke 12:10 does not say what the penalty for blasphemy is that will "not be pardoned".

Compare the Old Testament passages above, where the penalty was death. Likewise when Ananias & Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, they died physically (Acts 5):

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit…why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost… Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost (Acts 5:3-6, 9-10).

Compare also the following, which refer to death as the penalty:

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (1 John 5:16)

28 A man that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:28-29)

2 Chr.16:16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despising His words and scoffing at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD against His people was stirred up beyond remedy.
17 So He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans, who put their choice young men to the sword in the sanctuary, sparing neither young men nor young women, neither elderly nor infirm. God gave them all into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar.

And revealed it hath been in mine ears, By Jehovah of Hosts: Not pardoned is this iniquity to you, Till ye die, said the Lord, Jehovah of Hosts. (Isaiah 22:14)

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)

What is the consequence that will not be pardoned (or “let off”) for blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Could it be death, whether in “this age or in the age to come” (Mt.12:32), e.g. the millennium? Perhaps an imminent or immediate death, and or divinely sanctioned capital punishment. A death that ends their opportunity for salvation by grace in their mortal life & ships them off to corrective punishment, such as in a place the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) went to? For as long as it takes.

Why would God love those who are committing the unpardonable sin?

Why would a mother not love her son who received "life imprisonment", was "not pardoned" by the governor, served his full sentence & was released from prison after 20 years? If his crime were "unpardonable" according to justice, he was released after serving the punishment for it, and still could be forgiven by his mother & those he harmed.

God is love. Does He cease being love so He can be the opposite of love, i.e. a sadistic monster infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined?

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[FineLinen]

Justice

The God-as-Judge viewpoint does not present a biblical picture of what divine justice is about at all, but is a legalistic perspective that comes from human culture.

Biblically, to “bring justice” does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation. Justice means to make things right. Throughout the Prophets justice is associated with caring for others, as something that is not in conflict with mercy, but rather an expression of it.

Divine justice is God’s saving action at work for all that are oppressed, as the following verses demonstrate:

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow (Isaiah 1:17). Note what happens when one does right by seeking justice. The oppressed are encouraged and the helpless are helped.

This is what the LORD says: "`Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed (Jeremiah 21:12). Justice is done when the oppressed is rescued.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: `Administer true justice: show mercy and compassion to one another (Zechariah 7:9). How does one administer true justice? By showing mercy and compassion to everybody involved.

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice (Isaiah 30:18). What is the reason our Lord wants to be gracious to us? Because He is just.

If we want to understand the concept of justice as the writers of the Old Testament did, then we must see it as a “setting things right again.” There is no conflict between God’s justice and His mercy. They both flow from His love…

-Steve McVey-

 

[FineLinen]

Olethron Aionion
eternal destruction
-Dr.Marvin Vincent-

'Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of one's life is called the aeon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160).

It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life.

The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21.

Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3.

The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time.

Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come.

It does not mean something endless or everlasting.

To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject's life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. "The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum."

In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons.

A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, 'o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8).

The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time.

Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.

They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, aidios, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eis ton aiona, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod 21:6; 29:9; 32:13; Josh. 14:9 1 Sam 8:13; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17; 1 Chron. 28:4;. See also Matt. 21:19; John 13:8 1 Cor. 8:13. The same is true of aionios.

Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. 48:4; Num. 10:8; 15:15; Prov. 22:28; Jonah 2:6; Hab. 3:6; Isa. 61:17.

Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material cannot carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aionios everlasting.

Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aionios, it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer then men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God's relations to time.

God's eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact.

The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive aeons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.

There is a word for everlasting if that idea is demanded.

That aiodios occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aionios. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it.

Paul uses the word once, in Rom. 1:20, where he speaks of "the everlasting power and divinity of God." In Rom. 16:26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aioniou theou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context.

He has said that "the mystery" has been kept in silence in times eternal (chronois aioniois), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive aeons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the aeons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation.

To the same effect is the title 'o basileus ton aionon, the King of the aeons, applied to God in 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3; compare Tob. 13:6, 10.

The phrase pro chronon aionion, before eternal times (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2), cannot mean before everlasting times. To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke 1:70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the aeons.

Zoe aionios eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N. T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or aeon, or continuing during that aeon.

I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aionios. Kolasis aionios, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), is the punishment peculiar to an aeon other then that in which Christ is speaking.

In some cases zoe aionios does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the aeon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. 19:16; John 5:39. John says that zoe aionios is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John 3:36; 5:24; 6:47,54. The Father's commandment is zoe aionios, John 1250; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zoe aionios. John 17:3.

Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: "In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upon the notions of succession and duration.

'Eternal life' is that which St. Paul speaks of as'e outos Zoe the life which is life indeed, and 'e zoe tou theou, the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order."

Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality.

Its character is ethical rather than mathematical. The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the aeon into which the life passes. It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (Luke 12:20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new aeon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing.

In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new aeon, the years of the holy and eternal God. '

Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.

In the present passage it is urged that olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration. But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish.

Peter says "the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed. In Heb. 1:11,12, quoted from Ps. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, "they shall perish" (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal.

"They shall be changed" (allagesontai). Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, "the Son of man came to save that which was lost" (apololos), Luke 19:10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, "He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it," Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32.

In this passage, the word destruction is qualified.

It is "destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power," at his second coming, in the new aeon.

In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ.

Aionios may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millenial aeon between Christ's coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that aeon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterising or enduring through a period or aeon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined.

In neither case is aionios, to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.

 

[FineLinen]

Glad tidings of great joy to ALL people

 

[FineLinen]

Dear friends: Just above you is one of the 750 hymns written by Isaac Watts with a (Sir) earned by the crown of Great Britain in front of his name. He believed in a larger Crown of the God of total & complete Reconciliation. Yes, Isaac Watts is among those who grasp a Larger Hope.

I was reading a lad whose grasp of Fathers word is this>>>>>

Peace and the good will of God, is reserved for those in whom he is pleased.

 

[he-man]

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I believe that passage just fine. Please give me some context of what you are trying to say by this passage.

Believest thou this? All must first hear the word and believe if they want to serve in the coming Kingdom. Otherwise:

He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation; whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

No Key?
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard

1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
J
ohn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[FineLinen]

Dear friends: Just above you is one of the 750 hymns written by Isaac Watts with a (Sir) earned by the crown of Great Britain in front of his name. He believed in a larger Crown of the God of total & complete Reconciliation. Yes, Isaac Watts is among those who grasp a Larger Hope.

I was reading a lad whose grasp of Fathers word is this>>>>>

Peace and the good will of God, is reserved for those in whom he is pleased.

"But when he saw the crowds, he was moved with compassion for them, because they were harassed and scattered, like sheep without a shepherd."

My friends, this is the One who gathers up broken bread & broken fish that "nothing be lost"!

Jesus Christ the Lord of Reconciliation loses NOTHING. If He has not found you yet, be patient. He will!

 

[he-man]

The reason they won't enter on "that day" (Mt.7:22) is because they are unrighteous (Mt.7:21-23), just like those Paul refers to here:

1 Cor.6:9-10 "Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Are you implying that Paul was lying when he later says those unrighteous ones became saved & therefore could inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Cor.6:11 "And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

And if Paul wasn't lying when he said that, why would Jesus be lying if He believed like Paul that unrighteous people can enter God's kingdom of heaven?

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Taking away the world's sin (Jn.1:29) shall make the world sinless. So, yeah, all will be saved.

According to a number of commentators the "kingdom of the heavens" (Mt.7:21) is associated with Christ's millennial age kingdom. So exclusion from this kingdom would not necessarily mean a person will never be saved.

"The characteristic phrase is “the kingdom of the heavens”. This refers to Daniel's prophecy, “And in the days of these kings the God of the heavens shall set up a kingdom which shall not be harmed for the eon, and the kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall crush and terminate all these kingdoms.... (Dan.2:44)." (Concordant Commentary)

Rev.5:10 and You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Rev.20:4c And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Exodus 19:6
And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelites."

Mt.7:21 Not everyone saying to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the *one* doing the will of My Father in the heavens.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

What is "that day" (Mt.7:22) referring to? Possibly "the kingdom of the heavens" (v.21) itself as the millennial (1000 year) age kingdom of Christ? Peter says 1000 years (a millennium) is as a "day" to God (2 Pet.3:8) & also speaks of the "day of the age" (2 Pet.3:18):

Young's Literal Translation
2 Pet.3:18) and increase ye in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to him is the glory both now, and to the day of the age! Amen.

2 Peter 3:17　 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.　

2 Peter 3:18　

but grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and into the day of eternity. αἰών Amen.[Darby]　
　

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believest thou this? All must first hear the word and believe if they want to serve in the coming Kingdom. Otherwise:

He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation; whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

No Key?
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard

1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
J
ohn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Is this some kind of proof for Universalism?
If so, then I am not seeing it in the verses you presented.

 

[FineLinen]

Is this some kind of proof for Universalism?
If so, then I am not seeing it in the verses you presented.

Dear Jason: If you will take a few moments and follow some of these 100 plus pages, you will readily discover he-man does not answer questions. Think of a recording device that spews out scriptures by the push of a button.

I have hope for he-man because I believe in the One who raises the dead. Wonderful things transpire in such an event, wonderful indeed. Yes, the God of metamorphoo changes crawling creatures into butterflies!

 

[FineLinen]

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for "our God is a consuming fire;" (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord "came to cast fire into the earth," and desired nothing more than "that it should be already kindled;" (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,
Mark 9: 49-
For this is the very "baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire," (Matt. 3: 11) that "spirit of judgment and burning," promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for "He is like a refiner's fire, and like a fuller's soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness." (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ's flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)
And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For "the Lord will come with fire," and "by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many." (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that "warfare of the service of the tabernacle" (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

HERE

 

[FineLinen]

Do you love Me?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So every one of the churches the apostles established got it wrong? Thank God that finally 1900 years later someone is teaching the correct gospel. What really puzzles me tho is that the apostles didn’t make it clear that salvation is for everyone, even satan and all the demons, the unforgivable sin is actually not unforgivable, judgement day is actually judgment eternity, and hell is not eternal suffering but actually purgatory. I would’ve expected they would’ve been more clear on these things. If all of Christianity got had it wrong for the first 1900 years then the men Jesus picked must not have done a very good job of teaching the gospel.

 

[FineLinen]

So every one of the churches the apostles established got it wrong? Thank God that finally 1900 years later someone is teaching the correct gospel. What really puzzles me tho is that the apostles didn’t make it clear that salvation is for everyone, even satan and all the demons, the unforgivable sin is actually not unforgivable, judgement day is actually judgment eternity, and hell is not eternal suffering but actually purgatory. I would’ve expected they would’ve been more clear on these things. If all of Christianity got had it wrong for the first 1900 years then the men Jesus picked must not have done a very good job of teaching the gospel.

Dear BNR: The Apostles & prophets of the Most High "got it" absolutely correct! For 2000 years there has always been a remnant who have seen and declared this very fact! I will not bore you with some of these individuals or the history of the early Church "schools", but believe this is no feel good goofiness of our present day!

The God-as-Judge viewpoint does not present a biblical picture of what divine justice is about at all, but is a legalistic perspective that comes from human culture.

Biblically, to “bring justice” does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation. Justice means to make things right. Throughout the Prophets justice is associated with caring for others, assomthing that is not in conflict with mercy, but rather an expression of it. Divine justice is God’s saving action at work for all that are oppressed, as the following verses demonstrate:

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow (Isaiah 1:17).

Note what happens when one does right by seeking justice. The oppressed are encouraged and the helpless are helped.

This is what the LORD says: "`Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed (Jeremiah 21:12). Justice is done when the oppressed is rescued.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: `Administer true justice: show mercy and compassion to one another (Zechariah 7:9). How does one administer true justice? By showing mercy and compassion to everybody involved.

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice (Isaiah 30:18). What is the reason our Lord wants to be gracious to us? Because He is just.

If we want to understand the concept of justice as the writers of the Old Testament did, then we must see it as a “setting things right again.” There is no conflict between God’s justice and His mercy. They both flow from His love…

- Steve McVey.

The Diversity Of Early Christianity | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol XIII: Index - TOC

 

[ClementofA]

So every one of the churches the apostles established got it wrong? Thank God that finally 1900 years later someone is teaching the correct gospel. What really puzzles me tho is that the apostles didn’t make it clear that salvation is for everyone, even satan and all the demons, the unforgivable sin is actually not unforgivable, judgement day is actually judgment eternity, and hell is not eternal suffering but actually purgatory. I would’ve expected they would’ve been more clear on these things. If all of Christianity got had it wrong for the first 1900 years then the men Jesus picked must not have done a very good job of teaching the gospel.

Epistle of Barnabas' (70-135 AD)
15:7-8 Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world.

Clement of Rome (d. 99 AD)
1 Clem 7:4 Let us fix our eyes on the blood of Christ and understand how precious it is unto His Father, because being shed for our salvation it won for the whole world the grace of repentance.
1 Clem 19:2b and let us look steadfastly unto the Father and Maker of the whole world, and cleave unto His splendid and excellent gifts of peace and benefits.
1 Clem 19:3 Let us behold Him in our mind, and let us look with the eyes of our soul unto His long-suffering will. Let us note how free from anger He is towards all His creatures.
1 Clem 27:2 He that commanded not to lie, much more shall He Himself not lie: for nothing is impossible with God save to lie.
1 Clem 29:3 And in another place He saith, Behold, the Lord taketh for Himself a nation out of the midst of the nations, as a man taketh the first fruits of his threshing floor; and the holy of holies shall come forth from that nation.
1 Clem 36:4 but of His Son the Master said thus, Thou art My Son, I this day have begotten thee. Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the Gentiles for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy possession.
1 Clem 52:1 The Master, brethren, hath need of nothing at all. He desireth not anything of any man, save to confess unto Him.
1 Clem 53:4 And Moses said; Nay, not so, Lord Forgive this people their sin, or blot me also out of the book of the living.
1 Clem 53:5 O mighty love! O unsurpassable perfection! The servant is bold with his Master; he asketh forgiveness for the multitude, or he demandeth that himself also be blotted out with them.
1 Clem 54:1 Who therefore is noble among you? Who is compassionate? Who is fulfilled with love?
1 Clem 56:1 Therefore let us also make intercession for them that are in any transgression, that forbearance and humility may be given them, to the end that they may yield not unto us, but unto the will of God. For so shall the compassionate remembrance of them with God and the saints be fruitful unto them, and perfect.
1 Clem 59:4 We beseech Thee, Lord and Master, to be our help and succor. Save those among us who are in tribulation; have mercy on the lowly; lift up the fallen; show Thyself unto the needy; heal the ungodly; convert the wanderers of Thy people; feed the hungry; release our prisoners; raise up the weak; comfort the fainthearted. Let all the Gentiles know that Thou art the God alone, and Jesus Christ is Thy Son, and we are Thy people and the sheep of Thy pasture.

Sibylline Oracles (80-195 AD)
And God, immortal and omnipotent, will grant another gift to these pious
persons: when they will ask him, he will grant them to save the human beings
from the fierce fire, and from the otherworldly [αἰώνιος] gnashing of teeth, and
will do so after pulling them out of the unquenchable flame and removing
them [ἀπὸ φλογὸς ἀκαμάτοιο ἄλοσ’ ἀποστήσας], destining them, for the sake
of his own elect, to the other life, that of the world to come, for immortals
[ζωὴν ἑτέραν καὶ αἰώνιον ἀθανάτοισιν], in the Elysian Fields, where there are the
long waves of the Acherusian Lake, imperishable, which has a deep bed.
(2,330–338)

Apocalypse of Peter (c. 100-150 AD)
Then I will grant to my called and elect ones whomsoever they request from me, out of the punishment. And I will give them [i.e. those for whom the elect pray] a fine baptism in salvation from the Acherousian Lake (which is, they say, in the Elysian field), a portion of righteousness with my holy ones (ApPet 14:1, translating the text as corrected by M. R. James and confirmed by SibOr 2:330-338).

Bardaisan of Edessa (154–222 AD)
"But whenever God likes, everything can be, with no obstacle at all. In fact,
there is nothing that can impede that great and holy will. For, even those
who are convinced to resist God, do not resist by their force, but they are
in evil and error, and this can be only for a short time, because God is kind
and gentle, and allows all natures to remain in the state in which they are,
and to govern themselves by their own will, but at the same time they are
conditioned by the things that are done and the plans that have been conceived
[sc. by God] in order to help them. For this order and this government that have
been given [sc. by God], and the association of one with another, damps the
natures’ force, so that they cannot be either completely harmful or completely
harmed, as they were harmful and harmed before the creation of the world.
And there will come a time when even this capacity for harm that remains in
them will be brought to an end by the instruction that will obtain in a different
arrangement of things: and, once that new world will be constituted, all evil
movements will cease, all rebellions will come to an end, and the fools will be
persuaded, and the lacks will be filled, and there will be safety and peace, as a
gift of the Lord of all natures." (Laws of Countries, 608–611 Nau)

Clement of Alexandria (150-215) “And not only for our sins,'-that is for those of the faithful,-is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, 'but also for the whole world.' He, indeed, saves all; but some He saves, converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily He saves with dignity of honour; so 'that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;' that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life." (Fragments, 1:3, c. 2, v. 2)

Origen (c. 184 - c. 253) "So then, when the end has been restored to the beginning, and the termination of things compared with their commencement, that condition of things will be re-established in which rational nature was placed, when it had no need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; so that when all feeling of wickedness has been removed, and the individual has been purified and cleansed, He who alone is the one good God becomes to him 'all,' and that not in the case of a few individuals, or of a considerable number, but He Himself is 'all in all.' And when death shall no longer anywhere exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then verily God will be 'all in all'" — De Prinicipiis 3.6.3

Didymus the Blind of Alexandria (310/13 ca.–395/8 AD)
This is said about rational creatures [τῶν λογικῶν]. Since, among all of them, there are also some who have become wicked, know how these will have a restoration [κατάστασιν] once they have arrived in the hands of the Son, obviously after rejecting the evilness [κακίαν] that they had, and assuming virtue [ἀρετήν]. For one should not pay attention to those who propound sophisms, claiming that only those rational beings who have sanctity [ἁγιότητα] are called. [In Comm. in Io., fr. 2]

It is impossible that wood, grass, and straw disappear in such a way as not to exist any more, but sinners will disappear insofar as they are grass and so on. Indeed, this fire of the corrective punishment is not active against the substance, but against habits and qualities [sc. bad habits and qualities]. For this fire consumes, not creatures, but certain conditions and certain habits. [Comm. in Ps. 20–21 col. 21,15]

“Gregory of Nyssa (A.D. 330-394)
A certain deception was indeed practised upon the Evil one, by concealing the Divine nature within the human; but for the latter, as himself a deceiver, it was only a just recompense that he should be deceived himself: the great adversary must himself at last find that what has been done is just and salutary, when he also shall experience the benefit of the Incarnation. He, as well as humanity, will be purged.” (The Great Catechism, 26, newadvent.org/fathers/2908.htm)”

"the originator of evil himself will be healed” (Catechetical Orations 26. The Catechetical Oration of Gregory of Nyssa. Edited by James H. Srawley. Cambridge, 1903, p. 101).
‘For it is evident that God will, in truth, be ‘in all’ then when there shall be no evil seen in anything. … When every created being is at harmony with itself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body, then shall the body of Christ be subject to the Father. … Now the body of Christ, as I have said often before, is the whole of humanity’ (Orat. in I Cor. xv.28).

Early Church Writings Fathers:

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church

Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum

Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries

https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchab.../©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf

Universalism...First 500 Years