The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[Pneuma3]

that is the sort of thing that makes me insane, thinking evil is somehow good.

rape is somehow love.

death is somehow life.

i do not do well with this kind of information.

i do agree that evil DRIVES US into God's arms... but i don't have to like it, and is there any hope that we can hang on to that God's goodness WILL overcome evil in our lifetime, when we are to have faith that it will?

i prefer to hear that God is weeping in my ear, over a baby with AIDS, crying passionately that THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!

I have a different understanding then most who hold to universalism concerning some of these things sis but this is not the place for me to speak of such, but what I will say is keep your eyes on Jesus and the waves that try to toss you to and fro will be calmed and you can walk on all the troubled water with Jesus

 

[needhugs]

I have a different understanding then most who hold to universalism concerning some of these things sis but this is not the place for me to speak of such, but what I will say is keep your eyes on Jesus and the waves that try to toss you to and fro will be calmed and you can walk on all the troubled water with Jesus

yes, i'm upset about it all right now... i want out of this hell hole of a planet... but frightened i might still have some learning to do in some other hell after i die... i'm NOT in a good mood right now. but i have 'met' Jesus, and i know how infinitely sweet and tender He is... and how He said 'choose life'... and how He said 'THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!' with passionate tears....

if you have something to say on the subject, i would love to hear it... please private message me with some good news?

otherwise i'm going to book myself for a full frontal lobotomy

 

[Pneuma3]

yes, i'm upset about it all right now... i want out of this hell hole of a planet... but frightened i might still have some learning to do in some other hell after i die... i'm NOT in a good mood right now. but i have 'met' Jesus, and i know how infinitely sweet and tender He is... and how He said 'choose life'... and how He said 'THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!' with passionate tears....

if you have something to say on the subject, i would love to hear it... please private message me with some good news?

otherwise i'm going to book myself for a full frontal lobotomy

Give me a few days to pray and think about a PM sis as I don't want to overload one who seems to be overwhelmed already. For now keep your eyes on Jesus, let HIM be your focus and let not the troubles of this life overwhelm you.

Scripture tells us many fall away because they focus on the troubles in this life, so keep your eyes focused on HIM and HIM alone.

 

[needhugs]

Give me a few days to pray and think about a PM sis as I don't want to overload one who seems to be overwhelmed already. For now keep your eyes on Jesus, let HIM be your focus and let not the troubles of this life overwhelm you.

Scripture tells us many fall away because they focus on the troubles in this life, so keep your eyes focused on HIM and HIM alone.

ok.... i will only focus on Jesus and try to keep from THINKING!!!

i am not going to fall away from Jesus... frankly, i CAN'T

but that's a long weird story

 

[needhugs]

hope i didn't kill the thread... i'm hung up on the problem of evil right now... i'm scared of this 'using evil for good' thing... i'm just scared...

i have suffered so much in this life, and i just can't bear the thought of any MORE... i need a new understanding i guess... 'trust in God with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding'

i can NOT reconcile how tender, sweet, and SHY Jesus is, with the unspeakable cruelty

what is the beginning of that scripture? ..... but overcome evil with good

why does it seem that God overcomes evil with evil? at least according to current thought i guess.

i can't reconcile it... i hate this world.

but i choose to trust Jesus, not that explanation that somehow evil is good.

you can't say that God doesn't lose control of this world at times... or there would have been no great flood.

it is written, 'hate what is evil'

it is written, 'i set before you life and death, blessings and cursings.... choose life'

i'm sure that when God said 'choose life'... that He was crying, knowing that we wouldn't

you can't say that God is in control of all of that... i'm not saying that He won't have victory in the end

but in the mean time, THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!!

 

[needhugs]

wow i guess i really did kill the thread... are you guys all really ok with evil being somehow good? is that a good explanation for you?

i'm feeling ok... i keep thinking of that Job scripture... 'He shall deliver thee in six troubles, and in seven shall no evil touch thee'... i keep repeating 'shall no evil touch thee'

i know that the Bible says that God created evil... but since God isn't evil, i think creating evil is more like the POTENTIAL and framework for evil... the evil was empty, until we filled it.

all i know is that Jesus is tender and sweet and shy and meek and beautiful... and i can't lean on my own understanding past that.

Jesus is tender and sweet, and 'shall no evil touch thee'

'I will hold you up, I will hold you up, your love gives Me strength enuff, so have a little faith in Me'

 

[Pneuma3]

hope i didn't kill the thread... i'm hung up on the problem of evil right now... i'm scared of this 'using evil for good' thing... i'm just scared...

i have suffered so much in this life, and i just can't bear the thought of any MORE... i need a new understanding i guess... 'trust in God with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding'

i can NOT reconcile how tender, sweet, and SHY Jesus is, with the unspeakable cruelty

what is the beginning of that scripture? ..... but overcome evil with good

why does it seem that God overcomes evil with evil? at least according to current thought i guess.

i can't reconcile it... i hate this world.

but i choose to trust Jesus, not that explanation that somehow evil is good.

you can't say that God doesn't lose control of this world at times... or there would have been no great flood.

it is written, 'hate what is evil'

it is written, 'i set before you life and death, blessings and cursings.... choose life'

i'm sure that when God said 'choose life'... that He was crying, knowing that we wouldn't

you can't say that God is in control of all of that... i'm not saying that He won't have victory in the end

but in the mean time, THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!!

as I said I have a different understanding on these issue then others, I have lost friends because of it so am reluctant to go into it, heck I could be wrong, then again I could be right, but I cannot help what I see.

Anyway sis I will give you 3 keys that if you pray and think about them for awhile they will start to open a different understanding then what you have been told.

1. God is Love.
2. Love thinketh no evil.
3. Love worketh no evil.

anyway sis we are taking FL's fine thread off topic so if you have any questions or see something you want to bounce off of me please take it to PM and I will get back to you when I can.

 

[needhugs]

as I said I have a different understanding on these issue then others, I have lost friends because of it so am reluctant to go into it, heck I could be wrong, then again I could be right, but I cannot help what I see.

Anyway sis I will give you 3 keys that if you pray and think about them for awhile they will start to open a different understanding then what you have been told.

1. God is Love.
2. Love thinketh no evil.
3. Love worketh no evil.

anyway sis we are taking FL's fine thread off topic so if you have any questions or see something you want to bounce off of me please take it to PM and I will get back to you when I can.

well, it's not REALLY off topic, because it's UR that says we have no free will, and God is sovereign, and all is of God, including evil, etc etc

it's UR that STARTED my freak out about this kind of stuff... so i would love to hear your different view... but i don't know HOW to start a PM lol i've never done it before... but if your view is based on those 3 points, i'm sure you won't lose my friendship so PM me!

 

[Pneuma3]

well, it's not REALLY off topic, because it's UR that says we have no free will, and God is sovereign, and all is of God, including evil, etc etc

it's UR that STARTED my freak out about this kind of stuff... so i would love to hear your different view... but i don't know HOW to start a PM lol i've never done it before... but if your view is based on those 3 points, i'm sure you won't lose my friendship so PM me!

PM=private message, and I am not sure how to start one on this form either
those 3 points are scripture
and not everyone who believes in UR has the same understanding of how God works to accomplish His grand purpose of the salvation of all, we all however agree on the outcome,the salvation of the world.

Anyway just think on those 3 keys and see where it leads you.

 

[FineLinen]

wow i guess i really did kill the thread... are you guys all really ok with evil being somehow good? is that a good explanation for you?

My dear Hugs: Evil is not good! Evil will only last until our Father sees fit to swallow it up with one last gulp! That last gulp cannot happen too soon for F.L, and all who long for death to cease, for the prisoners of despair to be set free into Him who does all things well!

 

[FineLinen]

well, it's not REALLY off topic, because it's UR that says we have no free will, and God is sovereign, and all is of God, including evil, etc etc

U.R. does not say we have no free will. We are a little will that in my opinion is far from "free." That little will may come kicking and screaming, but in the end of our little rant we are faced with the Will of all wills! Please tell us how Adam 1 was "made sinners". Surely Adam1 could have "willed" it away! Perhaps his little will could finish the equation which is what?

 

[needhugs]

U.R. does not say we have no free will. We are a little will that in my opinion is far from "free." That little will may come kicking and screaming, but in the end of our little rant we are faced with the Will of all wills! Please tell us how Adam 1 was "made sinners". Surely Adam1 could have "willed" it away! Perhaps his little will could finish the equation which is what?

you know, i have this friend, he's brilliant, and he helps people a lot... he used to be terrorized and crazy, and somehow, yes, he willed it away...
i was not capable of willing the evil away, but i've seen it done, so i'm not sure what to say about our free will anymore... i never wanted free will, i used to get angry coz God gave it to me... then i realized it was simply a sort of freedom of choice and even that wasn't so free...
i'm just real confused right now, and i'm not sure that i can solve 'the problem of evil'

 

[FineLinen]

you know, i have this friend, he's brilliant, and he helps people a lot... he used to be terrorized and crazy, and somehow, yes, he willed it away...
i was not capable of willing the evil away, but i've seen it done, so i'm not sure what to say about our free will anymore... i never wanted free will, i used to get angry coz God gave it to me... then i realized it was simply a sort of freedom of choice and even that wasn't so free...
i'm just real confused right now, and i'm not sure that i can solve 'the problem of evil'

Hi there Hugs: When you have totally solved the problem of evil please notify F.L. immediately. You must stop being real confused! You will never solve the problem in that state! LOL

 

[FineLinen]

Questions Without Answers

The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".

Now the Questions:

1. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

2. If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

3. Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

4. As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

5. If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

To be continued in segments

 

[FineLinen]

6. As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

7. As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

8. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

9. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

10. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

Questions Without Answers

The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".

 

[needhugs]

U.R. does not say we have no free will. We are a little will that in my opinion is far from "free." That little will may come kicking and screaming, but in the end of our little rant we are faced with the Will of all wills! Please tell us how Adam 1 was "made sinners". Surely Adam1 could have "willed" it away! Perhaps his little will could finish the equation which is what?

Hello... i've got a friend, who is brilliant, and in trouble... I want to point him to Jesus, and i have been writing to him about it for a while... but, i can only say so much.

in great fear i told him to stay away from churches, and mainstream Christianity, coz in the immortal words of bon jovi, 'they give love A BAD NAME'

Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
you give love a bad name
An angel's smile is what you sell
You promise me heaven, then put me through Hell
Chains of love got a hold on me
When passions a prison, you can't break free

so i want to point him in the direction of a well rounded universalist teacher/preacher, but martin zender is crazy and doesn't even believe that Jesus is God coz 'GOD CAN'T DIE'... to me it's silliness, God CAN take human form and empty Himself and die if God durned well wants to, for with God nothing is impossible... but the craziness among the UR community about the trinity being false doctrine is not something i will point my friend to...

do you guys know if there is a universalist teacher out there who has a well rounded message, who ISN'T being carted off by satan to some ungodly doctrine that makes us all look foolish?
some youtube ministry that won't lead my friend down the wrong path? thanks in advance for any help you can give me. xoxoxox

 

[FineLinen]

you know, i have this friend, he's brilliant, and he helps people a lot... he used to be terrorized and crazy, and somehow, yes, he willed it away...
i was not capable of willing the evil away, but i've seen it done, so i'm not sure what to say about our free will anymore... i never wanted free will, i used to get angry coz God gave it to me... then i realized it was simply a sort of freedom of choice and even that wasn't so free...
i'm just real confused right now, and i'm not sure that i can solve 'the problem of evil'

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Hugs: Being brilliant can have side issues which may be hard to deal with. I am pleased your brilliant friend is helping others a lot. There is no simple road back into fellowship with Abba. A heart that longs to know Him, a simple humility of spirit, & a simple obedience to His voice in the inner man/ woman I believe are the foundations by which we are expanded by His love and grace.

The following book by Thomas Allin is one of the finest works F.L. has read.For any one reading these words: print it off and quietly present yourself before your Father in your favorite prayer closet and read.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

 

[FineLinen]

Prof. Keith DeRose The Really Good News

Universalism and the Bible – Keith DeRose

"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

The Purpose of God By Vladimir Gelesnoff

In PAUL'S letters repeated reference is made to God's "purpose" (Rom.8:28; 9:11; Eph.1:11; 3:11; 2 Tim.1:9). In all these scriptures the word is prothesis. Its force may be gathered from the fact that the twelve loaves which were placed on the Tabernacle table before the Lord are styled "loaves of purpose" (Matt.12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:14; Heb.9:2).

Hence the scriptures which speak of God's prothesis tell us that He has set before Himself a definite aim or object which He is bent on achieving.

In Eph.3:11, occurs the phrase, "according to the purpose of the eons which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The Purpose Of God, by Vladimir Gelesnoff

Christ Triumphant (Thomas Allin)

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

The Second Death & The Restitution Of All Things (Andrew Jukes)

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html

Francois Du Toit

http://www.christianuniversalism.com/articles/against-a-christless-universal-ism/

"Our message is powerful enough to stop people in their tracks with the best news ever! Sin in its every disguise doesn’t have what it takes to even remotely match the attraction and total contentment and appeal of the Christ life!"

 

[FineLinen]

6. As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

7. As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

8. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

9. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

10. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

Questions Without Answers

The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".

11. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

12. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

13. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

14. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

15. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

16. If God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them?

17. Is it just for God to be "kind to the evil and unthankful," in their present life? (Luke 6:35)

To be continued