The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[needhugs]

Hi you guyz... i just woke up, it's past midnight...

i feel absolutely awful... a friend told me that i have a spirit of unforgiveness, and like that parable of the servant who was forgiven much by the king, but then wouldn't forgive his fellow servant a little, and the king heard and 'turned him over to the tormenters'

he figures if i could let go of my deep seated anger and forgive, i would be healed and the torment would end

now i feel more tormented coz of him saying that. and sad that God is punishing me, again.

not that i didn't ask for the truth at all costs... i could do without the cost.

i was already upset at crazy martin zender, who doesn't even think Jesus is God!

thank you, Clement for leading me to that thread that had the link to the creed, or statement of faith of universalists... it was comforting

and makes me think, we are STILL CHRISTIANS, even tho we believe differently about the afterlife... and that's nice.

also, Clement, i ordered a concordance version of the new testament from that site you gave me

anyway, i'm back to being upset about how 'hard' scripture is, and thinking that I'M the wicked person talked about at every turm

 

[FineLinen]

Hi you guyz... i just woke up, it's past midnight...

i feel absolutely awful... a friend told me that i have a spirit of unforgiveness, and like that parable of the servant who was forgiven much by the king, but then wouldn't forgive his fellow servant a little, and the king heard and 'turned him over to the tormenters'

he figures if i could let go of my deep seated anger and forgive, i would be healed and the torment would end

now i feel more tormented coz of him saying that. and sad that God is punishing me, again.

not that i didn't ask for the truth at all costs... i could do without the cost.

i was already upset at crazy martin zender, who doesn't even think Jesus is God!

thank you, Clement for leading me to that thread that had the link to the creed, or statement of faith of universalists... it was comforting

and makes me think, we are STILL CHRISTIANS, even tho we believe differently about the afterlife... and that's nice.

also, Clement, i ordered a concordance version of the new testament from that site you gave me

anyway, i'm back to being upset about how 'hard' scripture is, and thinking that I'M the wicked person talked about at every turm

 

[FineLinen]

Hi Joan AKA Hugs: It is now 5.50 A.M. overlooking Lake Ontario & F.L. has never felt better (even with his new glasses). Here we are on a little link started only 25 days ago. That link has brought us together and others to whom we are becoming acquainted. I have no idea who follows us day by day until they make themselves known. This I do know: this sorry world of broken creatures need to hear of HOPE.

Just yesterday a lady we personally know lost a son from a drug overdose. This happened 6 long painful years ago. Day by painful day she awakens with the memories of that good looking son causing pain few of us can understand! It is to individuals such as this we post!

My dear friend let nothing cloud your reach for Him...NOTHING!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free..."

 

[needhugs]

Hi Joan AKA Hugs: It is now 5.50 A.M. overlooking Lake Ontario & F.L. has never felt better (even with his new glasses). Here we are on a little link started only 25 days ago. That link has brought us together and others to whom we are becoming acquainted. I have no idea who follows us day by day until they make themselves known. This I do know: this sorry world of broken creatures need to hear of HOPE.

Just yesterday a lady we personally know lost a son from a drug overdose. This happened 6 long painful years ago. Day by painful day she awakens with the memories of that good looking son causing pain few of us can understand! It is to individuals such as this we post!

My dear friend let nothing cloud your reach for Him...NOTHING!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free..."

hehe, 'Joan', that's me, minus all the bloodshed and hopefully i don't get burned at the stake.

you have one of those luxury cabins over looking a lake? i would love that... except the bugs!

and i'm glad you've never felt better... don't you ever get, even a little bit, angry at God at how evil this world is, and how hard it all is, to be a Christian? or is that just me? Jesus said 'My yoke is EASY, and My burden light'... i'm still waiting for the easy part.

tho today, and last night, i just got so confused and upset, today i just thought of that scripture 'trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding'... i put on my holosync meditation thingie, and decided to just let Jesus take care of me... heaven knows I can't repent of my unforgiveness, if Jesus doesn't make me ABLE to walk another way.

pray for me, to be rid of my anger, at God and the people who wronged me... it's not so much a conscious anger, but it's there, REALLY there.

i'm sorry about your friend losing her son... addiction is one of the most awful things, don't you think?

i exchanged a few email with Gary A. it was nice to hear from him... he gave me a copy of that book, i posted a couple posts, the first chapter, here in this thread.

and i agree, that your thread should help point to the God who heals the broken hearted.

 

[FineLinen]

hehe, 'Joan', that's me, minus all the bloodshed and hopefully i don't get burned at the stake.

you have one of those luxury cabins over looking a lake? i would love that... except the bugs!

and i'm glad you've never felt better... don't you ever get, even a little bit, angry at God at how evil this world is, and how hard it all is, to be a Christian? or is that just me? Jesus said 'My yoke is EASY, and My burden light'... i'm still waiting for the easy part.

tho today, and last night, i just got so confused and upset, today i just thought of that scripture 'trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding'... i put on my holosync meditation thingie, and decided to just let Jesus take care of me... heaven knows I can't repent of my unforgiveness, if Jesus doesn't make me ABLE to walk another way.

pray for me, to be rid of my anger, at God and the people who wronged me... it's not so much a conscious anger, but it's there, REALLY there.

i'm sorry about your friend losing her son... addiction is one of the most awful things, don't you think?

i exchanged a few email with Gary A. it was nice to hear from him... he gave me a copy of that book, i posted a couple posts, the first chapter, here in this thread.

and i agree, that your thread should help point to the God who heals the broken hearted.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Hugs: My "cabin" overlooks the One whose Name is Abba. His Plan is the Plan of all plans, conceived within Himself and purposed to end in Himself from whence it began. How can F.L be angry that this Father of ours allows suffering and death and dismay to continue. I do not understand the slightest little degree of His workings, not the slightest! What I do understand is He, the Father of all fathers can be trusted! In the most awful circumstances He is there for us! When hope seems hopeless He is there for us! In His correction He moves to bring us to sonship, to bear the image of the Beloved One! What was your question?

And yes, Hugs, I pray for you every day from my "cabin"!

 

[FineLinen]

There is no "however"! Our God IS the Saviour of all mankind. PERIOD. I will mention again that the Lord declares "....I will draw all men unto Me." Do you have any remote idea of what the Koine is for draw?

"I will draw, drag off forcefully, impel, pull with power all men unto Me"

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Please note

many= polus and is equal on both sides of the equation.

Polus made sinners.....polus made righteous.

BREAKING GOOD NEWS

Apostle Paul reports that the impact of death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 2,000 years ago shown to be more, not less, powerful than the disobedience of man He created 4,000 years prior (Romans 5:19)! Christians "horrified" and "offended" by this "heresy!" Furiously argue redemption of all mankind is an "insult to the cross of Christ"... -John Moneypenny-

 

[FineLinen]

Antiphonal Worship

You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshipped Him who lives forever and ever.

-A. T. Robertson-

"Every created thing (pan ktisma).

Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ),

from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added).

No created thing is left out.

This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption.

If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off."

 

[FineLinen]

THE SCOPE OF THE CONSUMMATION
That God's children may not be in doubt as to the issue of creation, God makes known the mystery of His will, that has its spring in His good pleasure. He purposes, "that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in the heavens and which are on the earth; even in Him."(Eph. 1, 10). This phrase "gather together" only comes in one other place in the New Testament, where it is translated "briefly comprehended" — (Rom. 13:9)— the whole of the law being briefly comprehended or "summed up" in one sentence. Coneybeare and Howson's well-known translation and commentary says that the phrase means "literally, to unite all things under one head, in union with Christ." No less an one than Chrysostom is quoted by these commentators in support. Other versions of the New Testament agree with this. The Headship of Christ over all creatures, "both the things"which are in the heavens and in the earth, is clearly expressed here in this final summary of the issue of the work of creation.

INCLUSION, NOT EXCLUSION
is the principle upon which this consummation will be effected. This is to take place in time in a dispen- sation of the fulness of times." It must be subsequent to the judgment of Rev. 20, for there is no sign of such inclusion in the latter passage, but rather the opposite. It is effected in that "age of the ages," that last age which is the crown of all other time periods, referred to in the same Epistle as follows: "Unto Him be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus unto all the generations of the age of the ages." (Eph. 3:21). Thus we have the scope of ultimate redemption and the period of its accomplishment.

CONSUMMATION, NOT CATASTROPHE
When we turn to the second passage, in the first chapter of Colossians, we find first of all an amplification of the term "the things in earth and in the heavens." We discover that the things in earth relate to all things that God has created and over which He presides, obviously the world of men and their interests. The things in the heavens are enumerated as "thrones, dominions, principalities and powers" (verses 16 and I7), those spirit beings of which glimpses are given occasionally in Scripture.

These two spheres "visible and invisible" are ultimately to be reconciled by the blood of that Cross, which already had availed to reconcile the Colossians believers, who were enemies in mind and works (Verses 20 and 21). Exactly the same word is used in both cases to express the position into which some had already been brought, and into which it is God's ultimate purpose to bring the rest of His creation. In all these verses the strongest words that could be selected have been chosen to emphasize each point. This word "reconcile" is the stronger of two words which could have been used, and Rotherham rightly translates it "fully reconcile." We know that he is right, for the reconciliation effected in those already saved by the Cross of Christ is the fullest possible. The significance of this passage is seen more fully still when its drift is observed. Paul was combating the Gnostic claim that Christ was only one of the angelic hierarchy. His reply to their claim was, that, in common with the earthly beings, the heavenly hosts themselves stood in need of His atonement. So that the position into which some of His creatures have been brought by the work of His Cross, and into which it is His purpose to bring ALL THINGS in the earth and in the heavens, is one of complete reconciliation.

The argument that "'all things' does not mean people" is confuted by the use of the word "reconcile." The inanimate creation is to be "delivered from the bondage of corruption" into which its association with sin has brought it, but it needs no reconciliation. Such a need presupposes sin and enmity to God; and demands the action of intelligence and choice, of all of which only sentient beings are capable.

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Saxby/GodInCreationRedemptionJudgmentAndConsummation.htm

 

[FineLinen]

“Though we are incomplete, God loves us completely. Though we are imperfect, He loves us perfectly. Though we may feel lost and without compass, God's love encompasses us completely. ... He loves every one of us, even those who are flawed, rejected, awkward, sorrowful, or broken.” - Dieter F. Uchtdorf-

 

[FineLinen]

“Though we are incomplete, God loves us completely. Though we are imperfect, He loves us perfectly. Though we may feel lost and without compass, God's love encompasses us completely. ... He loves every one of us, even those who are flawed, rejected, awkward, sorrowful, or broken.” - Dieter F. Uchtdorf-

More, Much More

"But not as the offence, so also the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." (Romans 5:15)

It is interesting to observe that while all Christendom will acknowledge that by one man, and his offence, death passed upon all men, yet they cannot accept the glorious fact that much more the grace of God shall abound unto all men. That one man's offence could cause such devastation of the human race, because death passed upon all men, does not provoke an argument, for the evidence is all around us. But when one man, Christ Jesus, releases the outflow of grace, through His obedience to the will of God, then people find it hard to believe that this shall have the same coverage, for ALL men.

Yet there is also a much more to be brought into account here, for the free gift is not the same as the offence. One act of disobedience brought the judgment unto condemnation. But by the time the free gift came on the scene, there was not just one offence to take care of, but now it must cover many offences and a multitude of sins. Therefore, how much greater is this free gift, able to go beyond all sin and gain the victory, until ALL shall receive His life.

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:17). There is no need to describe to what extent death has reigned. But there is a realm, which is greater in its dominion, as we much more reign in life. Death cannot keep its prey, for Life is greater than all death, and Jesus Christ is Lord, both of the dead and the living. He hath the keys of death and hell, and when He opens the gates of death, every captive shall be set free, and shall come forth into His life. "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).

Much more than all the sin and strife,

We see in Christ abundant LIFE.

-Ray Prinzing-

 

[needhugs]

Dear Hugs: My "cabin" overlooks the One whose Name is Abba. His Plan is the Plan of all plans, conceived within Himself and purposed to end in Himself from whence it began. How can F.L be angry that this Father of ours allows suffering and death and dismay to continue. I do not understand the slightest little degree of His workings, not the slightest! What I do understand is He, the Father of all fathers can be trusted! In the most awful circumstances He is there for us! When hope seems hopeless He is there for us! In His correction He moves to bring us to sonship, to bear the image of the Beloved One! What was your question?

And yes, Hugs, I pray for you every day from my "cabin"!

thank you for your prayers... i got attacked super bad this morning...

say, what do you think of people like this?

 

[FineLinen]

thank you for your prayers... i got attacked super bad this morning...

say, what do you think of people like this?

None=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/none

"And this is the pleasure of him who sent me, that I am not to let out of my hands anything which he has given me, but I am to give it new life on the last day."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/6-39-compare.html

I will NOT let anything out of My hands!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/3-35-compare.html

 

[needhugs]

None=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/none

"And this is the pleasure of him who sent me, that I am not to let out of my hands anything which he has given me, but I am to give it new life on the last day."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/6-39-compare.html

so do you think those visions are real? or demonic? did you see the guy going 'whoooo!!!'... whooping in happiness as he talked about hell? what is WRONG with these people????

 

[FineLinen]

so do you think those visions are real? or demonic?

Dear Hugs: I missed you yesterday!

Many individuals are under extreme distress in this broken scheme of things. I know not about some of these visions, or the root cause. I do know in whose Hands the Living One has placed the all!

"The Father loves His Son and has put everything in His power."

 

[needhugs]

Dear Hugs: I missed you yesterday!

Many individuals are under extreme distress in this broken scheme of things. I know not about some of these visions, or the root cause. I do know in whose Hands the Living One has placed the all!

"The Father loves His Son and has put everything in His power."

i don't know if you looked at my webpage

but once i saw a show on a home for babies dying of AIDS

and i was real joyful at the time coz God was close to me, answering questions, but when i saw that little skin and bones baby, with it's eyes bulging out, trying to cry, but was too weak and could only make a weird little croaking sound, i shook my fists and the sky and said 'WHYYYYYYY????!!!!!!'

And God answered RIGHT AWAY, and He was sobbing and HE SAID 'Things AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!! people are supposed to be ONE WITH GOD!!!'

i don't even understand that, what with all the talk about how God uses evil to get good...

if He is sovereign ... then how did things get to be in a state they AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE IN????

does anyone have an answer for THAT???

gah

 

[FineLinen]

The Purpose Of Evil

http://kingdom-resources.com/2017/10/02/the-purpose-of-evil-by-a-p-adams/

The True Basis Of Redemption

https://www.godfire.net/AP_Adams/true_basis_of_redemption_ap_adams.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TrueBasisOfRedemption-APAdams.html

A.P. Adams Articles

https://www.godfire.net/AP_Adams/index.htm

 

[FineLinen]

if He is sovereign ... then how did things get to be in a state they AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE IN????

does anyone have an answer for THAT???

gah

 

[FineLinen]

If God is almighty and all wise need He allow anything to take place that he cannot bring good out of in the end?

Would He allow any such thing to happen? Surely not; to suppose such a thing would be to make God less than infinite, i.e., to dethrone him altogether.

Hence it follows, and the conclusion is wonderful as well as inevitable, mark it well, that all the events transpiring around us in the world, all the movements and actions of man, good and bad (as we term them) are all woven into the warp and woof of God's great plan, light and shade, bright threads and somber ones, tears and laughter, woe and joy, and even good and evil, all woven in to make the grand pattern of that rare tapestry that shall carpet and adorn eternity.

Now we are looking at the wrong side of the figure, and we see many tangled and apparently ill assorted threads, disconnected ends and unsightly knots. But, Ah! when we reach the other side! the fair pattern, the rich figure, the exquisite blending of color, in God's finished work! Then we shall exclaim, "O, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!" (Rom. 11:33).

-A.P. Adams-

 

[needhugs]

If God is almighty and all wise need He allow anything to take place that he cannot bring good out of in the end?

Would He allow any such thing to happen? Surely not; to suppose such a thing would be to make God less than infinite, i.e., to dethrone him altogether.

Hence it follows, and the conclusion is wonderful as well as inevitable, mark it well, that all the events transpiring around us in the world, all the movements and actions of man, good and bad (as we term them) are all woven into the warp and woof of God's great plan, light and shade, bright threads and somber ones, tears and laughter, woe and joy, and even good and evil, all woven in to make the grand pattern of that rare tapestry that shall carpet and adorn eternity.

Now we are looking at the wrong side of the figure, and we see many tangled and apparently ill assorted threads, disconnected ends and unsightly knots. But, Ah! when we reach the other side! the fair pattern, the rich figure, the exquisite blending of color, in God's finished work! Then we shall exclaim, "O, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!" (Rom. 11:33).

-A.P. Adams-

that is the sort of thing that makes me insane, thinking evil is somehow good.

rape is somehow love.

death is somehow life.

i do not do well with this kind of information.

i do agree that evil DRIVES US into God's arms... but i don't have to like it, and is there any hope that we can hang on to that God's goodness WILL overcome evil in our lifetime, when we are to have faith that it will?

i prefer to hear that God is weeping in my ear, over a baby with AIDS, crying passionately that THINGS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY!!!!