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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Good morning friends: Do you see the triumphal procession coming down your wee road yet? Can your ears hear the sound of great joy coming from the Choir of antiphonal worship of the Angelic Host calling to one another: "Holy">>>Holy>>>>>>Holy is the Lord?

    "Behold I bring you glad tidings of great joy which shall be to ALL people"
     
  2. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    G3824 παλιγγενεσία Paliggenisia From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.
    from G3825 πάλιν palin anew and from γένεσις genesis Matthew 19:28 and applies to

    1Co_15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
     
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear he-man: There may be hope for you. That is precisely the meaning of paliggenisia: renewal & re-birth flowing from "again" & "genesis". The Last Adam is indeed a quickening spirit! You will one day join the triumphal procession of the Lord of Glory!
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Paliggenisia=

    Combination of two words: Katallaso & Apokatallasso

    The koine paliggenisia is the combination of two words.

    Katallaso=?

    Apokatallasso=?
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Katallaso=

    To reunite those at variance.

    To return to favour/ reunite into favour.

    Apokatallasso=

    1) to reconcile completely

    2) to reconcile back again

    3) bring back a former state of harmony.
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Welcome to the Ultimate Recovery Program!

    "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

    For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

    Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Questions=

    1. One trespass by one leads to condemnation for how many?

    2. One act of righteousness leads to justification for how many?

    3. How many "were made sinners"?

    4. One man's obedience will make how many righteous?

    5. Which prevails: the increase of sin or the "all the more" of Jesus Christ?

    6. What does the koine polus mean?

    7. Is the equation of the "polus" equal on both sides?

    "Everything of God finds its proper place in Him. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe - people and things, animals and atoms - get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the Cross."
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Welcome to the Ultimate recovery program

    "God rescued us from dead-end alleys and dark dungeons. He’s set us up in the kingdom of the Son he loves so much, the Son who got us out of the pit we were in, got rid of the sins we were doomed to keep repeating.

    Christ Holds It All Together

    We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created. For everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible, rank after rank after rank of angels—everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him. He was there before any of it came into existence and holds it all together right up to this moment. And when it comes to the church, he organizes and holds it together, like a head does a body.

    He was supreme in the beginning and—leading the resurrection parade—he is supreme in the end.

    From beginning to end he’s there, towering far above everything, everyone. So spacious is he, so roomy, that everything of God finds its proper place in him without crowding. Not only that, but>>>

    all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe—people and things, animals and atoms—get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the cross."
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "Apokatallasso" = to bring back a former state of harmony. Rooted in "paliggenisia".

    Apokatallasso

    Found in only 3 passages of Canon, two of which are the following>>>>

    "We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created. For everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible, rank after rank after rank of angels—everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him. He was there before any of it came into existence and holds it all together right up to this moment. And when it comes to the church, he organizes and holds it together, like a head does a body.

    He was supreme in the beginning and—leading the resurrection parade—he is supreme in the end. From beginning to end he’s there, towering far above everything, everyone. Everything of God finds its proper place in him. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe—people and things, animals and atoms—get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the cross."

    Note: this just received from Jonathan Mitchell

    • Now the idea of reconciliation is contained in the extended semantic range of the participle, but it falls far
    • short of the explicit meanings of the elements of the compound verb katallasso. The root, allasso, means:
      to make other than it is; to change; to alter; (by extension) to exchange something for something else. In
      this verse, the addition of the prefix, kata-, can be understood as an intensifier
    • Now the idea of reconciliation is contained in the extended semantic range of the participle, but it falls far
    • short of the explicit meanings of the elements of the compound verb katallasso. The root, allasso, means:
      to make other than it is; to change; to alter; (by extension) to exchange something for something else. In
      this verse, the addition of the prefix, kata-, can be understood as an intensifier
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  11. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    a potter’s vessel — when shivered cannot be mended, which will describe utter destruction. [BROWN]
    Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
    9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear he-man: what is Father going to do with you? You must focus, not on coloring up the Scripture, but on the content. You have failed to address the Scripture provided, and the questions relating to the passage in black and white. You are receiving a FAIL as a result. You simply must do better, much much better!

    The Hebrew "shabar" is now breathing down our necks. Be aware "shabar" has dual meanings to be presented at the close of our "paliggenisia" word study.

    Never ever attempt to limit the One who does exceedingly abundantly above all we can ask or think
     
  13. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It seems "BROWN" has never heard of the Almighty God, Love Omnipotent:

    Lk.1:36Look, even Elizabeth your relative has conceived a son in her old age, and she who was called barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
     
  14. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    It seems you do not know the difference between V‑Qal‑Imperf‑2ms | 3mp and Pi`el, Pe`al, Hoph`al,
    Revelation 2:27 καί ποιμαίνω αὐτός ἐν ῥάβδος σιδήρεος ὡς ὁ σκεῦος ὁ κεραμικός συντρίβω ὡς κἀγώ λαμβάνω παρά ὁ πατήρ ἐγώ

    Brown-Driver-Briggs שָׁבַר verb break, break in pieces (Late Hebrew id.; Sabean תֿבר, break, destroy DHMHof. Mus., no. 1, l. 26 MordtmHi 74; Arabic restrain, destroy; Aramaic תְּבַר, ; Assyrian šabâru, break, break in pieces; Ethiopic break); —
    Pe`al Participle pass feminine singular תְּבִירָה Daniel 2:42 broken in pieces (kingdom).
    תְּדִירָא see דּוּר
    Hoph`al be broken, shattered (in heart), Perfect1singular עַלשֶֿׁבֶר בַּתעַֿמִּי הָשְׁבַּ֑רְתִּי Jeremiah 8:21.
    שָׁבוּר Leviticus 22:22 see √ Qal. [תְּבַר] verb break (ᵑ7 Syriac; Biblical Hebrew שָׁבַר); —
    Pi`el Perfect3 masculine singular שִׁבַּר Isaiah 21:9 +, שִׁבֵּ֑ר Exodus 9:25, etc.; Imperfect3masculine singular יְשַׁבֵּר Psalm 46:10 +, 2 masculine plural תְּשַׁבֵּר֑וּן Exodus 34:13, etc.; Infinitive absolute שַׁבֵּר Exodus 23:24; Participle מְשַׁבֵּר 1 Kings 19:11; — shatter, break, tablets
    Qal Perfect3 masculine singular ׳שׁ 1 Kings 13:28; Isaiah 14:5, etc.; Imperfect3 masculine singular יִשְׁבֹּר Jeremiah 19:11, בּוֺר- Isaiah 42:3; 3feminine singular תִּשְׁבָּרֿ Proverbs 25:15, etc.; Imperative masculine singular שְׁבֹר Psalm 10:15, suffix שָׁבְרֵם Jeremiah 17:18; Infinitive construct לִשְׁבֹּר Genesis 19:9 2t., שְׁבוֺר Jeremiah 28:12; Participle active שֹׁבֵר Ezekiel 4:16 2t.; passive שָׁבוּר Leviticus 22:22, plural construct שְׁבוּרֵי Psalm 147:3; — break, literally, object earthen vessel Judges 7:20; Leviticus 11:33 (P),
    H7666 שָׁבַר shaw-bar'
    H7665 שָׁבַר shâbar shaw-bar'
    A primitive root; to burst (literally or figuratively): - break (down, off, in pieces, up), broken ([-hearted]), bring to the birth, crush, destroy, hurt, quench, X quite, tear, view [by mistake for H7663 שָׁבַר שָׂבַר].

    H7667 שֵׁבֶר שֶׁבֶר sheber shêber sheh'-ber, shay'-ber
    From H7665; a fracture, figuratively ruin; specifically a solution (of a dream): - affliction, breach, breaking, broken [-footed, -handed], bruise, crashing, destruction, hurt, interpretation, vexation.

    Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. V‑Qal‑Imperf‑2ms | 3mp

    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    a potter’s vessel — when shivered cannot be mended, which will describe utter destruction. [BROWN]

    You shall dash them to pieces V‑Piel‑Imperf‑2ms | 3mp
    Psalm 2:9 • Psalm 2:9 NIV • Psalm 2:9 NLT • Psalm 2:9 ESV • Psalm 2:9 NASB • Psalm 2:9 KJV • Psalm 2:9 Commentaries • Psalm 2:9 Bible Apps • Psalm 2:9 Biblia Paralela • Psalm 2:9 Chinese Bible • Psalm 2:9 French Bible • Psalm 2:9 German Bible

    a potter’s vessel] An emblem of easy, complete, irreparable destruction. The confederacy is shattered into fragments which cannot be reunited. Cp. Jeremiah 19:11; Isaiah 30:14; Proverbs 6:15. [Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges]

    So, with respect to the other clause of the verse - Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel - it is to be noted that there is a similar threat made by the Lord of hosts against Jerusalem in the Book of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 19:11), and that under the new covenant the same is threatened in the Revelation (Revelation 2:27). In truth, both covenants are alike in denouncing the extreme of God's wrath on impenitent sinners, such as those here spoken of. [Pulpit Commentary]

    As applicable to the Messiah, it can only mean that his enemies would be crushed and subdued before him. The word rendered "dash them in pieces" means to break in pieces as an earthen vessel, Judges 7:20; Jeremiah 22:28. It is used to denote the crushing of infants on stones, Psalm 137:9.Thus, in Isaiah 11:4 : "He shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." So Psalm 110:6 : "He shall judge among the heathen; he shall fill the places with the dead bodies."
    [Barnes Notes on the Bible]

    Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
    9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
     
  15. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Don't know Hebrew???
    Revelation 2:27 καί ποιμαίνω αὐτός ἐν ῥάβδος σιδήρεος ὡς ὁ σκεῦος ὁ κεραμικός συντρίβω ὡς κἀγώ λαμβάνω παρά ὁ πατήρ ἐγώ
    Brown-Driver-Briggs שָׁבַר verb break, break in pieces (Late Hebrew id.; Sabean תֿבר, break, destroy DHMHof. Mus., no. 1, l. 26 MordtmHi 74; Arabic restrain, destroy; Aramaic תְּבַר, ; Assyrian šabâru, break, break in pieces; Ethiopic break); —
    Pe`al Participle pass feminine singular תְּבִירָה Daniel 2:42 broken in pieces (kingdom).
    תְּדִירָא see דּוּר
    Hoph`al be broken, shattered (in heart), Perfect1singular עַלשֶֿׁבֶר בַּתעַֿמִּי הָשְׁבַּ֑רְתִּי Jeremiah 8:21.
    שָׁבוּר Leviticus 22:22 see √ Qal. [תְּבַר] verb break (ᵑ7 Syriac; Biblical Hebrew שָׁבַר); —
    Pi`el Perfect3 masculine singular שִׁבַּר Isaiah 21:9 +, שִׁבֵּ֑ר Exodus 9:25, etc.; Imperfect3masculine singular יְשַׁבֵּר Psalm 46:10 +, 2 masculine plural תְּשַׁבֵּר֑וּן Exodus 34:13, etc.; Infinitive absolute שַׁבֵּר Exodus 23:24; Participle מְשַׁבֵּר 1 Kings 19:11; — shatter, break, tablets

    Qal Perfect3 masculine singular ׳שׁ 1 Kings 13:28; Isaiah 14:5, etc.; Imperfect3 masculine singular יִשְׁבֹּר Jeremiah 19:11, בּוֺר- Isaiah 42:3; 3feminine singular תִּשְׁבָּרֿ Proverbs 25:15, etc.; Imperative masculine singular שְׁבֹר Psalm 10:15, suffix שָׁבְרֵם Jeremiah 17:18; Infinitive construct לִשְׁבֹּר Genesis 19:9 2t., שְׁבוֺר Jeremiah 28:12; Participle active שֹׁבֵר Ezekiel 4:16 2t.; passive שָׁבוּר Leviticus 22:22, plural construct שְׁבוּרֵי Psalm 147:3; — break, literally, object earthen vessel Judges 7:20; Leviticus 11:33 (P),
    H7666 שָׁבַר shaw-bar'
    H7665 שָׁבַר shâbar shaw-bar'
    A primitive root; to burst (literally or figuratively): - break (down, off, in pieces, up), broken ([-hearted]), bring to the birth, crush, destroy, hurt, quench, X quite, tear, view [by mistake for H7663 שָׁבַר שָׂבַר].

    H7667 שֵׁבֶר שֶׁבֶר sheber shêber sheh'-ber, shay'-ber
    From H7665; a fracture, figuratively ruin; specifically a solution (of a dream): - affliction, breach, breaking, broken [-footed, -handed], bruise, crashing, destruction, hurt, interpretation, vexation.

    Denominative from H7668; to deal in grain: - buy, sell.
    Total KJV occurrences: 21

    Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. V‑Qal‑Imperf‑2ms | 3mp 9

    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    a potter’s vessel — when shivered cannot be mended, which will describe utter destruction. [BROWN]

    You shall dash them to pieces V‑Piel‑Imperf‑2ms | 3mp
    Psalm 2:9 • Psalm 2:9 NIV • Psalm 2:9 NLT • Psalm 2:9 ESV • Psalm 2:9 NASB • Psalm 2:9 KJV • Psalm 2:9 Commentaries • Psalm 2:9 Bible Apps • Psalm 2:9 Biblia Paralela • Psalm 2:9 Chinese Bible • Psalm 2:9 French Bible • Psalm 2:9 German Bible

    a potter’s vessel] An emblem of easy, complete, irreparable destruction. The confederacy is shattered into fragments which cannot be reunited. Cp. Jeremiah 19:11; Isaiah 30:14; Proverbs 6:15. [Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges]
    So, with respect to the other clause of the verse - Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel - it is to be noted that there is a similar threat made by the Lord of hosts against Jerusalem in the Book of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 19:11), and that under the new covenant the same is threatened in the Revelation (Revelation 2:27). In truth, both covenants are alike in denouncing the extreme of God's wrath on impenitent sinners, such as those here spoken of. [Pulpit Commentary]

    As applicable to the Messiah, it can only mean that his enemies would be crushed and subdued before him. The word rendered "dash them in pieces" means to break in pieces as an earthen vessel, Judges 7:20; Jeremiah 22:28. It is used to denote the crushing of infants on stones, Psalm 137:9.Thus, in Isaiah 11:4 : "He shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." So Psalm 110:6 : "He shall judge among the heathen; he shall fill the places with the dead bodies."
    [Barnes Notes on the Bible]

    Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
    9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
     
  16. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Perhaps the better question is, who here doesn't know English.

    As a first language.
     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Hebrew "shabar"=

    Break out.

    Bringing to birth.

    Duel meaning

    To be broken or rent.

    To break/ to break in pieces.

    “See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand."

    https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-39.htm
     
  18. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Huh? hear the word of the LORD, The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not English. So which is it?
    Qal; Pi`el; Hoph`al
    ?
    Jeremiah 19:11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

    15  Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.;
    Isaiah 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.;

    So do you wink with your eyes, and speak with your feet?
    Proverbs 6:13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; 14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. 15  Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy;

    Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 

    Judges 7:20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 

    Jeremiah 22:28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
    29  O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD;

    Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 
     
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It is amazing the things you can learn on Christian Boards!

    F.L. is presently in discussion with a wee lad who posts the Lord is not literally fire & suggests I know not what "literally" means.

    "Our God is [a] fire." He is literally in essence fire! He is LOVE literally. He is Spirit literally. He is Light literally. He is Fire literally. He is Saviour literally.

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/hebr...9-compare.html

    lit·er·al·ly=

    In a literal manner or sense; exactly.

    Synonyms=

    Exactly, precisely, actually, really, truly;

    Used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true.

    Dear lad:

    Are you suggesting the essence of our God is not literal? Perhaps His amazing love is not literal? You think He is a potential Saviour, and certainly must not in essence be Saviour, oh no, our God the Saviour of all mankind is not literal!

    Our God is literally in actuality, exactly & precisely in essence,>>>>>>>

    LOVE>>>>SPIRIT>>>LIGHT>>>>SAVIOUR>>>FIRE
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Scars Of Life

    Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house. In a hurry to dive into the cool water he ran out the back door leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went. He flew into the water not realizing that as he swam toward the middle of the lake that an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

    His father was working in the yard and saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear he ran toward the water, yelling to his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father.

    But it was too late.

    Just as the little boy reached his father, the alligator reached him.

    From the dock the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father, but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened to drive by and heard his screams. Grabbing a rifle the farmer raced from his truck, took aim, and shot the alligator.

    Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal. And on his arms were deep scratches where his father's fingernails had dug into the boy's flesh in his effort to hang on to the son he loved.

    A newspaper reporter interviewing the boy after the trauma asked if he would show him the scars on his legs. The boy lifted his pant legs.

    And then with obvious pride, the boy said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars on my arms, too! I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go."
     
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