the real divide

[Nadiine]

I posted this in another thread and want to put it here on a new thread as a basic introduction
http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39874158&postcount=9


I wanted to express what I think is going on in this section and why I feel this split is occurring in the CC forum.

This is a basic liberal vs. conservative fight (again) only within the CC members. Some here want a unity with the liberal forum and are now working to force this to happen.

I took the liberty this morning of surfing the WWMC (liberal) forum to read posts there to hopefully see why we're getting all this interest in joining our forum here.
Here's the threads that I found from some of our CC members & mods:

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=36917448&postcount=1
bridging the gap: by GM

a post from that thread:
http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=36941223&postcount=17


http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=38420094&postcount=1http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=36917448&postcount=1
saying Hi to all my liberal friends: byJim47


http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=37937893&postcount=1
crashing your party: by Macrina


There were a few CC members posting within threads in the liberal section. First off, This is NOT a rant that cc's post over there.

Whoever wants to post in WWMC, enjoy yourselves, I wouldn't dream of speaking against you for that nor do I harbor any issues against you or have one bad, negative thing to say about it. You do as you feel God leads you!!!!

My point is this: there's been a recent push by some mods & members here to UNITE the conservatives with liberals explicitly (evidenced by the posts that have been made).

But I don't recall ASKING them to go over there and speak for me in trying to UNITE us all. This is coming from them of their own initiative and agenda without asking me anything about how I feel about it. Or my opinion: No group polls, no Pm's, no threads to fish for our thoughts... just, "this is what we're doing and what WE want to do".

They don't speak for me in wanting to 'unite' us so we're all one big happy family. And now I feel like that's what this whole divide is really all about- and those who don't participate in knuckling under to this agenda being forced, are going to catch some flack for not doing so. (and already have).

I've already seen the term "fundamental" get thrown onto this 3 times; as if rejecting unity with liberals is a fundy definition, not conservative. That's utterly false.
Conservative Christianity clashes with liberalism in nearly every venue (religious/moral) - one doesn't have to be a fundamental to reject liberalism. Even moderates reject some liberalism.

I'd also ask this, UNITE WITH WHAT EXACTLY?

We all know that all of us can easily talk about secular issues and chit chat just fine together about unicorns, computers, kites, weather & food -- the divides occur when you get onto real topics such as religion; Christianity or moral issues.

So are we being TOLD to unify on a superficial level only? So we can sit together and find some commonalities in inconsequential issues like "do you work out at a gym"? Or are we being told to unite even to accepting their religious beliefs & moral worldviews too?
Becuz unless you stay away from religion/moral topics, it doesn't work.

One more thing; IF YOU GUYS WOULD HAVE TALKED WITH CC MEMBERS AND TOLD US YOUR IDEA OF PUSHING THIS, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED CIVILLY WITHOUT THIS DIVIDE.
This divide imho happened becuz your PRIVATE agenda's weren't shared openly and it's caused confusion. I had no idea until today that these posts were going on over there hoping we could unify areas!???
So when they come over here, it's thrown on us out of the blue becuz we had no clue you were trying to align us all! (I didn't!).

BEING UP FRONT COULD HAVE STOPPED ALOT OF THIS imo. At least I'd of known what was going on here & why this rift started. Now it all makes sense to me.

And lastly, Does anyone elses opinions matter here? Do you guys decide who we align with and who we don't as a forum? You go to whoever and speak for ALL of us and we don't know about it? (have you guys gone to other forums like Mormons & tried to "mend fences" too?).

And why is it ONLY to the liberals? Why don't you head over to the Unitarians, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses to unite us with them too since you're so concerned about unity all of a sudden?

These are my observations & issues as to the divide here. And I don't like that others are taking over and speaking for ME as a CC member in uniting this whole forum without alerting everyone to your personal agendas for unification.
This all could have been avoided if properly handled at the start.

*this is all said in LOVE and concern. Becuz even tho I stand my ground, I do love you guys.
It would much easier to walk away from this area than to even make this post - knowing what the reception will probly be.
That's ok tho. I at least tried to find the source and I think I have (or it appears that way to me in my view).

 

[GreenMunchkin]

You weren't even active at CF when I started that thread

 

[Nadiine]

You weren't even active at CF when I started that thread

It doesn't matter tho - I don't think it does --
that's the underlying issue isn't it?

YOu guys want unity btwn the 2 groups. dont' you?

 

[Nadiine]

My point is, I didn't know any of this was going on. I didn't know you guys felt this way and were reaching out to them.
This is all new to me.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

It doesn't matter tho - I don't think it does --
that's the underlying issue isn't it?

YOu guys want unity btwn the 2 groups. dont' you?

Socially, yes. Theologically, no.

 

[Macrina]

Is that all right?

I don't fit your forum's definition of "liberal," so I'm not seeking voting privileges and whatnot (I am a member of the conservative forum), but I've started venturing outside the "bridging the gap" thread, and wanted to make sure that was ok.

I don't think I'm a rabble rouser or anything. I'm just someone who doesn't fit well into any of the congregational areas and might like to post in here every now and then. Since my intention isn't to disrupt a forum for which I don't qualify for membership, please let me know if any of my posting causes a problem -- I will try my best to respect your rules and norms.

Yes. It was terrible of me to post such treachery.

 

[Lisa0315]

Nadine, I haven't read your links yet, but I don't want liberals here either. However, what you define as liberal and what others define as liberal may not be the same thing.

The problem that I see is that we HAVE a definition of Conservative. Back when we were creating that, I warned people that liberals could easily join here under our open membership. We were going to deal with that when and if it ever happened.

We did have a few members who wanted to join during my tenure as mod, but I did not handle it the way it has been handled this time around.

I simply PM'd the member and told them that according to our rules, they could not be members. Every single time, I was met with friendship. There was never ever a war over it.

So, while, Y'all might be right in theory, you are not right in practice. That is what everyone is upset about.

This forum should not be accusing people and being ugly to visitors or potential members. If someone is known to be a liberal, then, it can be handled by staff. However, staff should not abuse their position and they need to practice moderate behavior themselves.

I was told over and over that staff behavior has to be held to a higher standard. Staff should moderate from the middle not taking sides, not causing strife. I was an Advocate/Protector mod which meant that I did not referee as much as I protected my members. Even so, I did that without causing harm to the rule breakers.

This is what I have a problem with. There is an abuse of power here and it is not right.

If Belinda, FatherRick, and Freitag are liberals, and I am not certain that they are, but even if y'all are right about that, the way it has been handled has been absolutely wrong.

Regardless, no one should be calling for a split. We have our definition, and if that is not good enough, then, those who do not agree with the definition should leave. They should not force the rest of membership to change to what they think the definition should be.

Lisa

 

[Nadiine]

Socially, yes. Theologically, no.

Ok... this is the junk I"m trying to get to the bottom of to SOLVE THIS problem.
It's a problem. If we don't get to the bottom, it will split this & I don't know which way

We need to know where people are at in what their "vision" is for CC.
It seems to continue to be a liberal vs conservative divide; it's not that CC is self destructing, there's a divide with a side that wants liberal fellowshipping/unity

 

[Lisa0315]

Nadine!!!

Those posts were from July, August, and the most recent one was from early September.

The ones from July and August were during the time when Liberals and Conservatives were having a flame war in here. GM and Jim were not seeking to unite the two forums but were trying to end the flame wars.

How can you post such misinformation as this??? I thought you were talking about something in the last couple of days!!! This is just too much! I cannot believe you did this.

Lisa

 

[GreenMunchkin]

This is what I have a problem with. There is an abuse of power here and it is not right.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

What's interesting is I keep hearing people say "split". FTMP...it's only 3 people that I see causing any rift. 3. That is NOT a split by any means.

Listen Nadiine...nobody is calling for the libs to come over here and join up. But what I see happening is that some of the subject matter in this forum is causing them to come and comment. Just like we would comment in their forum if we kept seeing the obvious invitation.

 

[Lisa0315]

Not talking about you.

Lisa

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

She's not talking about you.

I don't think...

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Ok... this is the junk I"m trying to get to the bottom of to SOLVE THIS problem.
It's a problem. If we don't get to the bottom, it will split this & I don't know which way

We need to know where people are at in what their "vision" is for CC.
It seems to continue to be a liberal vs conservative divide; it's not that CC is self destructing, there's a divide with a side that wants liberal fellowshipping/unity

Frankly, am at the point where I don't think an internal split would be such a bad idea.

Letalis is the one who creates new forums. That's always an option should you wish to pursue it.

You're spot on. I don't have a problem with fellowshipping with liberals. I don't have a problem with anyone. I object strongly to flaming, arguments and snideyness - be it from liberals or fellow conservatives; and I object to the notion that not wanting to be at war constantly somehow reflects on my theology.

 

[Nadiine]

Nadine!!!

Those posts were from July, August, and the most recent one was from early September.

The ones from July and August were during the time when Liberals and Conservatives were having a flame war in here. GM and Jim were not seeking to unite the two forums but were trying to end the flame wars.

How can you post such misinformation as this??? I thought you were talking about something in the last couple of days!!! This is just too much! I cannot believe you did this.

Lisa

Misinformation?

The continuing posts were about unity of the 2 groups - not a specific issue.

This place had no problems until again the liberal flare up came here. This divide then came back -- see the pattern?

It's all when liberal issues come thru this division happens

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Not talking about you.

Lisa

Phew Okiedokies.

 

[Lisa0315]

She's not talking about you.

I don't think...

Nope, nor you, nor anyone...I will go ahead and say it so there is no confusion. I am talking about Time. I feel that he is abusing his position. Staff have always influenced by doing nothing more than wearing the badge. When I was a mod, I had moments when I withheld my own opinion rather than unduly influence the forum. Time is in a leadership role whether he acknowleges it or not and by making war about Beth Miqlat, he is abusing his position...IN MY OPINION.

Lisa

 

[Nadiine]

Frankly, am at the point where I don't think an internal split would be such a bad idea.

Letalis is the one who creates new forums. That's always an option should you wish to pursue it.

You're spot on. I don't have a problem with fellowshipping with liberals. I don't have a problem with anyone. I object strongly to flaming, arguments and snideyness - be it from liberals or fellow conservatives; and I object to the notion that not wanting to be at war constantly somehow reflects on my theology.

I don't have a huge problem with all liberals... if it can be kept away from religion--- somehow that always seems to creep in tho.

 

[Lisa0315]

Misinformation?

The continuing posts were about unity of the 2 groups - not a specific issue.

This place had no problems until again the liberal flare up came here. This divide then came back -- see the pattern?

It's all when liberal issues come thru this division happens

The links you gave in the context of your OP is misleading because it makes it seem as if those posts were recent events and related to the present conflict. They are not related. They are related to a specific time frame when CCC was first being formed.

Lisa

 

[Macrina]

What's interesting is I keep hearing people say "split". FTMP...it's only 3 people that I see causing any rift. 3. That is NOT a split by any means.

Well, I suppose those three could have their own forum if they'd like. Assuming they agree on everything -- otherwise they might have to subdivide further.