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Unfortunately I have Windoze......couldn't afford a MacI dont have a microsloth, brother. I use an iMac. What is that program?
Exactly my point, LittleLamb. How will you recognize them?
Rather the Jews and Gentiles should just wait until these guys show up
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Reve 11:3 and I shall be giving the two wintesses of Me, and they shall be prophesying days, thousand, two hundred, sixty, having been about-cast sackcloths
I agree with a lot of what you have to say. Not everything. But I'll just focus on this. The church body of Revelation 12 is specifically protected by God.
Revelation 12: 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This specific group of believers is "in a protected area". They are protected from the face of the serpent. Satan attempts to "reach" this group, but cannot penetrate to reach the land that they are on. Therefore, Satan having been frustrated in his endeavor, turns away from them to go pursue and attack the rest of the Christians on earth he can reach -- those who are not in the protected area:
Revelation 12:15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The scripture in Revelation 18:1-4 shows us God establishing protection for a specific area and group of Christians. This is occurring at the time of the abomination of desolations. The evil of the people has become full so the cup of wrath has become full.
Hi...
ok so far...but all Christians in general are not protected....
only the elect are...(Luke21)
not all Christians are elect...only the ones that remain faithfull are.
i disagree....Yet, this is not at the end of the 7 year period where the 666 beast kingdom is destroyed worldwide.
many people think the A of D is a thing, like a statueThis specific land mass is burned with fire. There are witnesses outside of the land mass that see the burning of the land mass. Therefore, the timing coincides with the abomination of desolation.
when it is an entity that is worshiped...not a thing...Satan himself worshiped
specific timing is not at isue here,
as the A of D will be worshiped for the latter 1/2 of the trib
right up till Christ literally Comes, and folks see the truth Coming...
instantly showing Who is Who, and who is not Who
We see God's activity in Divinely Intervening to protect this specific group of believers from the 666 beast system as God calls them to come out to be protected from plagues and set apart to God. I submit that this group of Christians who "hear the cry" to come out are the Christians who "make the rapture".
I agree....they are the 144,000 IMO
(there is another 7000 witnesses too,
the very elect who will work for Christ in the trib!)
sounds good to me,The "rapture" is not "rapture" out of this world. Rather, even as Lot was removed to a protected area, these Christians are removed to a protected area. In fact, the glory of the Lord surrounding them "forms" their protection (see Psalm 91) as the land is burned and all evil is destroyed from the land.
but IMO those protected children will have been changed as 1Cor15 shows,
and thus physical harm cannot happen to them anymore
when the rapture happens, it will be a gathering together ON EARTH...
Christ ON EARTH
Satan is cast out of the land through the purification of the fire. That is why Satan cannot enter the land in Revelation 12.
Satan is bound 1000 years and loosed at the end of it
so the elect get to teach the rest (beguiled/seduced ones) the truth for 1000 years,
in their changed glorified bodies
The saints have arisen in full Kingdom power and authority in entire sanctification. What is "left" on the land is a Christian body in entire sanctification through Divine Intervention and special grace upon them empowering them to arise in that level sanctification.
if you said that this was the Millennial time, then I'd agree with you.
see Ezekiel 44 (Zadok)
I disagree...Thus, then are on a land mass with specific borders that can be defined. The land is then healed from the burning, their borders are sealed against Satan, and they are thus protected in the Kingdom of Heaven come on earth for the latter 3-1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. They "made the rapture" and "become" thereby the body of Christians shown in Revelation 12.
the first 3 1/2 years is a political NWO power, (Rev13)
that is lead in spiritual places by Satan,
but that kingdom is led politically by the kings of the earth
after 3 1/2 years that world system fails...war me thinks!
(the time has been shortened for the elect's sake)
how ever long the trib's entirely is, this NWO fails at the 1/2 way point
the 2nd half of the 7 years
is actually led IN PERSON by the supernatural fallen angel Satan,
who is cast out of heaven for a short season....
in his very own supernatural fallen angel body
right at the trib's mid point
his appearance and arrival will fool the world,
and save the wounded world system.
they will think he is Christ (and all deity)
he has supernatural fallen angel powers
including the ability to do what we will preceive as miracles, and bringing peace.
his casting out will coincide with the 1/2 way point of the trib.
it'll be a huge church time for a while,
as he beguiles/seduces the potential bride of Christ
most of us here disagree on the specific timeline of events
for example
while Christ's departure from heaven is seen in Rev19,
His landing is already seen in Rev14.
and after that, the wrath of God is poured out in Rev16...
Daniel didn't know about the book of Revelation. Daniel was given various prophecies about the end days and was shown the wicked one will come from the east.
Daniel 8 uses the Greek area - so does Daniel 11.
Israel will be attacked from an eastern nation.
The only nation the little horn that undestand riddles can come from is a nation to the east of Israel.
He will wax great then in these directions :
south
east
and toward the pleasant land ) Israel
so Israel cannot be south or east of the beast's land
In Daniel 11 - Daniel was shown a time of the vile person and that begins in verse 21 - then the chapter ends without showing how the vile person goes down - as in dies -
The chapter ends with a story that was not finished in great detail - that is why Daniel wanted to know how the things end.
The chapter only went as far as to show how long the vile person has control over Jerusalem and chases the holy people.
The end of the chapter only goes as far as the end of the great tribulation - it ends at the time of the rapture of the church. But the beast is still living on and does what?
goes where?
These are the things that Daniel was curious about.
Daniel was told about a time of another 45 days. This time is when the vials of God's wrath will be poured. The vials will be poured out twice.
Once emptied - they will be filled up again.
Micah 7 refers to the Assyrian/ being shown marvellous/ things- according to the days of Israel coming out of Egypt.
So - does that link up with the 45 days of Exodus 16:1?
Is the Assyrian to be punished for 45 days?
At the end of the 45 days - blessed are those who wait and come to that day - as in they survived past the battle of Armageddon - and can now live on into the 1000 years reign of Jesus Christ on the earth.
Daniel was not to live on - he was to go and rest till the end.
Just as other saints - would do and had done - they went - they were not remaining on the earth till the end - but would go and rest.
Daniel 11 shows Daniel the time of the vile person coming out of the area of the Greek Empire. The USA was not part of that empire. Obama is not the man of sin. Obama can[t even solve an oil crisis. The little horn will understand riddles. He will speak great words. He will come from the east of Israel. He will be a king that was - and is not - by the time John was alive. He will be Nebuchadnezzar. That ancient king will return and finish the time that remains of the Jeremiah 25:11-12 prophecy for the Babylonian kings to rule the nations.
They have a total of 70 years.
Last time - used up only part of those years.
605 - 539 B.C.
Nebuchadnezzar to Cyrus
Darius ruled Babylon - put Daniel in with the lions
the later Cyrus took over Babylon and released the Jews
in his first year
Israel has yet to go back to Babylon and serve the rest of her time that she is to serve a Babyonian king in Babylon.
Rev. 18 shows the time when God will no longer hide His face from Israel and they will again be His people. The Jews will retun to Israel and get ready for the plagues to fall on the land of Babylon and those that folllowed the beast.
Compare Isiah 47 to Rev. 18 - both same pophecy about the land of the Chaldeans.
In a very non-mocking, non-belittling and non-flaming way, and indeed with an abundance of good cheer and deep, deep respect, I would merely point out that by their fruitcakes you shall know them ...
Actually, I'm very partial to the eschatology that whomever happens to be the President of the United States at any given point in time is a good candidate to be the Beast. Very, very disappointed when this one failed to pan out, because the patented 666 Beast Identifier lit up like a Christmas tree when he was elected ...
CANDIDATES FOR THE ANTICHRIST
The president of the United States of America
[SIZE=+2]Whoever he is[/SIZE]. [SIZE=+1]It's a permanent Illuminati's vacancy[/SIZE]. If you think George W. Bush is a genuine reborn Christian, you should read what Jesus said: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them." (Mt.7:15-19)
Now, what are the fruits of this man? President Bush -- Bad Fruits versus Good Fruits
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ok so far...but all Christians in general are not protected....
only the elect are...(Luke21)
not all Christians are elect...only the ones that remain faithfull are.
I'm a Calvinist. All Christians who are elect of God are true Christians born of the Spirit of God. God will preserve the salvation of all the elect. All the elect will remain faithful. However, there will be a Great Falling Away of those who are in the church but not spiritually converted. They never were saved. Those who are protected in the land of Revelation 12 ~~ it's debatable and I personally "cannot take a position" at this time. Position would be:
1. Only Christians on the land of Revelation 12 (the USA) at the time of Revelation 18 wrath are included in the protection of Revelation 18 and arise as the nation of Revelation 12, or
2. Christians on the land of the USA AND from around the world who are "ready" will "hear the angel" of Revelation 18:4 to spiritually separate from the world system will be translated to what "becomes" the land of Revelation 12 (both the land of the USA) protected during the Great Tribulation.
many people think the A of D is a thing, like a statue
when it is an entity that is worshiped...not a thing...Satan himself worshiped
When a person worships a man as God, they are inherently worshiping Satan. Satan is represented by the image of the man worshiped as God and is in the image of the man spiritually who blasphemes the Holy Spirit -- so Satan is being worshiped spiritually in my view.
I agree with you that what is of central significance is that Satan is being worshiped. The abomination of desolation occurs due to the spiritual level of blasphemy that occurs at that moment, in my view. For example, the entire world of reprobates has blasphemed the Holy Spirit. In the act of worshiping the 666 beast as God, their full unity has come to abomination of desolation worldwide. Satan has completely filled them as entities ~~ and they are wholly DESOLATE of the Spirit of God in them. The act of the world in total blasphemy of God worshiping the 666 beast as God is so profane spiritually -- that the entire world system has become completely evil and fully manifested spiritually the worship of Satan as a "corporate body" with a "titular head" replacing Jesus Christ.
So, I am agreeing that the "spiritual dimension" of the entire larger picture of that satanic covenant and body come to "fullness" of abomination and thus entire "desolation" in separation from God in their souls as a worldwide global body -- is, to me, the abomination of desolation in that act of initiation. This initiates the 3-1/2 year period. (They don't get any "better" as a body in spiritual state of being -- nor can they. They are in a state of worldwide global blasphemy of the Spirit. The entire 3-1/2 years is an ongoing abomination of desolation - but hits "critical mass" at the point in time at which the 666 beast rises, declares himself God, and the Luciferic initiation of the "new age" is thus initiated.)
specific timing is not at isue here,
as the A of D will be worshiped for the latter 1/2 of the trib
Agreed that the substantive spiritual reality of what occurs is of central significance. However, we are now at a "time" to KNOW the specific timing of the abomination of desolation IF we "pinpoint" the initiation date of the 7 year period of the apocalypse by "noticing" the "confirming of the covenant with the many" has occurred.
Noticing that this "event" has occurred, how, when, and by whom ~~ is completely within the range of biblically "watching and praying". Therefore, we have every legitimate "business" knowing that the 666 beast committed the initiating act of the 7 year apocalypse in "confirming the covenant with the many", knowing that this was Barack Hussein Obama taking the oath of office to POTUS (which I say the second date of January 21, 2009 is most likely the "official" date that the Bible would line up with).
Once we notice that date, it's our biblical "responsibility" to know that the specific event of the 666 beast declaring himself to be God and declaring war on the saints occurs 1260 days later -- and to know what "happens" in a domino effect as revealed in scripture for us to know by the Spirit.
(there is another 7000 witnesses too,
the very elect who will work for Christ in the trib!)
Would you please share your view on the additional number being "7,000"??
I'm going to agree that of course the 144,000 hear God and separate from the 666 beast system to be protected by God. However, one would be missing the point of scripture to fail to see that Revelation 18 and Revelation 12 are specific nations. They are protected from the time of the abomination throughout the Great Tribulation.
Now, if you counter me to state that you believe the 144,000 are protected at the same time -- then I am going to take that under advisement.
You see, I have "wondered" if perhaps the "two witnesses" are the two corporate bodies that are protected during the Great Tribulation: the Christians of the land of the USA and the 144,000 Jews in Israel.
Thus, the two witnesses would not be "individuals" but two separate corporate bodies of believers.
I am not "decided". I don't "hold a position". It's "open" and I would need to have more scripture enlivened to "hold a position".
I tell you with all certainty that I know that I know that I know that the Spirit has revealed to me that the Christians of Revelation 18 are Christians of the USA. That's a personal conviction that is not intellectual by human reason in my understanding in my personal relationship with the Lord.
However, I will not automatically "limit God" to say it's "impossible" that a parallel representation of the 144,000 may also be revealed through the same scripture as it is interpreted through other scripture. God is not as "boxy" in the scripture as people sometimes think. The same scripture can apply to different events and occasions as it is properly "seen" through other scripture as scripture interprets scripture.
(I'll come back to the rest of your post to ponder the remaining points you made).
Bush was more of a universalist... that whole belief that all paths lead to God is picking up speed in the Emergent Church... which I believe Bush was a part of
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With all due respect, what I believe "is happening" in your view of scripture is "not yet seeing" the various "gatherings" that occur ~~ and so not differentiating them one from another with their specific attributes and characteristics.sounds good to me,
but IMO those protected children will have been changed as 1Cor15 shows,
and thus physical harm cannot happen to them anymore
For example, at the midpoint of the apocalypse when the "nation of Revelation 12 rises" they are arising in "Christian perfection". They have not gained new spiritual bodies. That occurs only at the final return of the Lord Jesus Christ at Final Armageddon after the 1000 years.
Physical harm cannot happen to them because they have arisen in "entire sanctification". They are in the spiritual state of Christian maturity of the full measure of the full stature of the Lord Jesus Christ as He walked on this earth in a human body of flesh prior to His death, burial, and resurrection.
Jesus, at that time, could "transfigure". He could walk through crowds without being noticed. He had dominion over earth and the wind and waves obeyed Him. He could walk on water. All of this, likewise, Adam could have done when Adam was in entire sanctification, in perfect submission to God the Father in the Spirit and thus in dominion over earth, skies, land, sea, and animals, etc. It was "not Jesus' ministry" to call down fire upon persons as Elisha did ~~ however, Jesus could have. Elisha was in a human body. Jesus, as God come in the flesh, was of greater spiritual authority than Elisha. So, if Elisha could call down fire upon people -- if Elijah could -- so, too, could Jesus Christ. He simply chose not to because He came to go to the cross to provide redemption.
But because Jesus Christ was walking on earth in entire sanctification, no one could harm Him without His "permission". They did not take Jesus' life from Him -- He laid it down. Jesus could have called down fire in the Garden of Gethsemane to kill the Roman soldiers. Jesus could have called down a dozen legions of angels to protect Him.
It is not necessary to have a "new spiritual body" to walk in the Kingdom power and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ in fullness. But, it is required that one arise in the full measure of the full stature of Jesus Christ in Christian maturity, or perfection, in entire sanctification. That is what we are seeing in the two witnesses of the Book of Revelation. That is also what we are seeing potentially in the 144,000 as well as the saints of the USA in Revelation 12. (This is why I wonder if it is possible that the two corporate bodies actually "are" the two witnesses of the Book of Revelation.)
So, that is my case for stating that it is "getting ahead of ourselves" to believe that any Christians will be changed into spiritual bodies prior to the Lord's return at Final Armageddon at the end of the 1000 years -- not realizing the level Kingdom power and authority that is requisite in the body, even in human bodies as Jesus was born into on earth, the moment the body arises in entire sanctification as the body arises spiritually in entire sanctification in Revelation 12.
There is more than one gathering. These are the gatherings I see:when the rapture happens, it will be a gathering together ON EARTH...
Christ ON EARTH
#1. Gathering of the saints of Revelation 18 which becomes the same saints gathered in Revelation 12 in the "perfect spiritual nation" arising.
a. The USA Christians
b. You see the 144,000 in Israel (now, I would see them as a separate "body" and thus a separate "gathering" ~~ but I understand you to be saying you think this happens "at the same time" at the time of the abomination of desolation midpoint of the 7 year period of the apocalypse).
#2. 6th Seal Gathering ~~ meeting Jesus in the mid-Heaven which CAN HAPPEN in a human body so long as the saints are in entire sanctification. Adam could fly before the fall, for example. This is the gathering that occurs for Revelation 19 marriage supper of the Lamb:
Revelation 19:
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
#3. The final "gathering" is at the return of Jesus Christ at Final Armageddon after the 1000 years when those who are alive do not prevent those who have died and they meet Jesus in the air. That is when persons gain new spiritual bodies. That is when Jesus descends with a shout with all saints with Him and all angels with Him and the first creation -- Heaven and earth -- are utterly destroyed and melt in fervent heat.
So, when Christians blur together the 3 instead of differentiating them, each is not sharply differentiated and understood in progression of what each gathering actually represents and "includes".
No, because no one's body can be changed, as I see it, until the final return of Jesus Christ. You see, if any of us "came down" in a new spiritual body ~~ it could result in the dissolution of the elements... as it will when we return with Jesus Christ in new spiritual bodies at Final Armageddon at the end of the 1000 years.Satan is bound 1000 years and loosed at the end of it
so the elect get to teach the rest (beguiled/seduced ones) the truth for 1000 years,
in their changed glorified bodies
Calvinism will prevent many errors. We cannot "teach" better than the Holy Spirit. The only way to know truth is by revelation by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will do His work -- and we cannot do His work for Him.
We will live on the earth in Christian perfection for the 1000 years marrying, having children, building cities, living like mankind was created to live prior to the fall.
What happens in the USA, the land of Revelation 12, for the 3-1/2 years is a "precursor" of what will happen worldwide in the 1000 year reign of Christ.if you said that this was the Millennial time, then I'd agree with you.
see Ezekiel 44 (Zadok)
This is entire sanctification in a human body made of earth ~~ living as man would have lived were it not for the fall. Satan is "booted" from the land of Revelation 12 as the saints arise together in entire sanctification. This is very much "like" how Satan will be bound at the end of the 7 year period. However, Satan will be removed from the entire earth at that time. So the entire world will become "like" the land of Revelation 12 became at the burning of the land in Revelation 18 fire and the Christians arising in Christian maturity on the land.
Satan was "bound" in relation to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ had all Kingdom power and authority over Satan in a state of entire sanctification the perfect submission of Jesus Christ to God the Father in the Holy Spirit.
But in Revelation 12 we see the progression of Satan being bound in relation to one Christian nation arising in Christian maturity in a land with specific borders that Satan cannot enter during the Great Tribulation.
To initiate the 1000 year reign of Christ, all evil will be destroyed on earth in sinners. You see, it is sinners that keeps us from arising in spiritual maturity in Christ. It is our "bond" with them. They are Satan personified on earth.
When God kills all the sinners in the USA (who will have all blasphemed the Holy Spirit and declared war on the Christians to commit genocide and fully deserve to be killed in justice in God's Judgment in wrath upon them in this nation) ~~ and only saints are on the land ~~ and the land is separated from the rest of the world ~~ we will be AMAZED how we automatically "arise" in the full measure of the full stature of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Likewise, when Jesus kills all sinners of the 666 beast system and there are no sinners on earth -- all around the world Satan will be BOUND and God will bind him for the 1000 years.
We will inherently arise worldwide in the full measure of the full stature of Jesus Christ arising as ONE BODY of Christian saints with no "soul ties" to sinners, thus Satan.
It really "makes sense" spiritually and you can see how it will "happen" by the action God takes in Divine Intervention.
(I'll respond to other points later.)
i agree...but not all Christians are elect...only the elect are electI'm a Calvinist. All Christians who are elect of God are true Christians born of the Spirit of God.
I agree4...but again, not all Christians are elect.God will preserve the salvation of all the elect.
agreed..the elect are the elect and as such were chosen by God for their role,All the elect will remain faithful.
we disagree...the condition is whether the potential bride will be staying faithfull or not...However, there will be a Great Falling Away of those who are in the church but not spiritually converted. They never were saved.
I don't think that there is any particular nation meant by the wildernessThose who are protected in the land of Revelation 12 ~~ it's debatable and I personally "cannot take a position" at this time. Position would be:
1. Only Christians on the land of Revelation 12 (the USA) at the time of Revelation 18 wrath are included in the protection of Revelation 18 and arise as the nation of Revelation 12, or
2. Christians on the land of the USA AND from around the world who are "ready" will "hear the angel" of Revelation 18:4 to spiritually separate from the world system will be translated to what "becomes" the land of Revelation 12 (both the land of the USA) protected during the Great Tribulation.
in my view it is literally,When a person worships a man as God, they are inherently worshiping Satan. Satan is represented by the image of the man worshiped as God and is in the image of the man spiritually who blasphemes the Holy Spirit -- so Satan is being worshiped spiritually in my view.
no one as of yet has Blasphemed the Holy Spirit...IMOI agree with you that what is of central significance is that Satan is being worshiped. The abomination of desolation occurs due to the spiritual level of blasphemy that occurs at that moment, in my view. For example, the entire world of reprobates has blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
my view has Satan, while in heaven, having spiritual powers....In the act of worshiping the 666 beast as God, their full unity has come to abomination of desolation worldwide. Satan has completely filled them as entities ~~ and they are wholly DESOLATE of the Spirit of God in them. The act of the world in total blasphemy of God worshiping the 666 beast as God is so profane spiritually -- that the entire world system has become completely evil and fully manifested spiritually the worship of Satan as a "corporate body" with a "titular head" replacing Jesus Christ.
the A of D is Satan himself being worshipped as God returned...So, I am agreeing that the "spiritual dimension" of the entire larger picture of that satanic covenant and body come to "fullness" of abomination and thus entire "desolation" in separation from God in their souls as a worldwide global body -- is, to me, the abomination of desolation in that act of initiation.
shortened for the elect's sake (Rev9 possibly?)This initiates the 3-1/2 year period.
it is not 7 years any longer, IMO..(They don't get any "better" as a body in spiritual state of being -- nor can they. They are in a state of worldwide global blasphemy of the Spirit. The entire 3-1/2 years is an ongoing abomination of desolation - but hits "critical mass" at the point in time at which the 666 beast rises, declares himself God, and the Luciferic initiation of the "new age" is thus initiated.)
Agreed that the substantive spiritual reality of what occurs is of central significance. However, we are now at a "time" to KNOW the specific timing of the abomination of desolation IF we "pinpoint" the initiation date of the 7 year period of the apocalypse by "noticing" the "confirming of the covenant with the many" has occurred.
I completely disagree...Noticing that this "event" has occurred, how, when, and by whom ~~ is completely within the range of biblically "watching and praying". Therefore, we have every legitimate "business" knowing that the 666 beast committed the initiating act of the 7 year apocalypse in "confirming the covenant with the many", knowing that this was Barack Hussein Obama taking the oath of office to POTUS (which I say the second date of January 21, 2009 is most likely the "official" date that the Bible would line up with).
the time has been shortenedOnce we notice that date, it's our biblical "responsibility" to know that the specific event of the 666 beast declaring himself to be God and declaring war on the saints occurs 1260 days later -- and to know what "happens" in a domino effect as revealed in scripture for us to know by the Spirit.
Would you please share your view on the additional number being "7,000"??
I disagree...both are symbolic of a much larger area than a single nation.I'm going to agree that of course the 144,000 hear God and separate from the 666 beast system to be protected by God. However, one would be missing the point of scripture to fail to see that Revelation 18 and Revelation 12 are specific nations. They are protected from the time of the abomination throughout the Great Tribulation.
I think that they are protected by God individually....all over the worldNow, if you counter me to state that you believe the 144,000 are protected at the same time -- then I am going to take that under advisement.
again, there is no such 144,000 JEWS mentioned in the BibleYou see, I have "wondered" if perhaps the "two witnesses" are the two corporate bodies that are protected during the Great Tribulation: the Christians of the land of the USA and the 144,000 Jews in Israel.
the two witnesses are pretty much defined for us as 2 churches...candlesticks=churches (see Smyrna and Philadelphia)Thus, the two witnesses would not be "individuals" but two separate corporate bodies of believers.
smart way to be! I often have no current position, because of the same reason.I am not "decided". I don't "hold a position". It's "open" and I would need to have more scripture enlivened to "hold a position".
cool....you mean the ones that come out of Babylon?I tell you with all certainty that I know that I know that I know that the Spirit has revealed to me that the Christians of Revelation 18 are Christians of the USA. That's a personal conviction that is not intellectual by human reason in my understanding in my personal relationship with the Lord.
me thinks God speaks on many levels...However, I will not automatically "limit God" to say it's "impossible" that a parallel representation of the 144,000 may also be revealed through the same scripture as it is interpreted through other scripture. God is not as "boxy" in the scripture as people sometimes think. The same scripture can apply to different events and occasions as it is properly "seen" through other scripture as scripture interprets scripture.
(I'll come back to the rest of your post to ponder the remaining points you made).
you are incorrect friendOK, I want to "add a thought" and a level dimension to the discussion regarding fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 and Barack Hussein Obama. I think there is confusion in Christians regarding OT Israel and the New Covenant. Christians are "trained" to deny who they are in Christ. We are a holy nation. We are God's chosen people. We are kings and priests in Christ. "Who we are" is a separate issue from OT Israel. We are in Christ. View on Daniel 9:27:
1 Peter 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Barack Hussein Obama is the anti-Christ in my view. He was born a European citizen (his father being a UK citizen, etc.). His father was also Muslim, Obama is Muslim.
Satan is cast out of heaven at the mid point of the last hourApocalypse began, most likely, 1/21/2009 in his second swearing in ceremony by which he "confirmed the covenant with the many".
I'm getting dis-interestedPlease note, the covenant confirmed with the many is stated by many to be an Arab/Israeli peace treaty. It must be understood that any "Christian nation under God" is a covenant nation in the second covenant. There is only one Christian nation under God as a covenant nation in the second covenant at this time: the United States of America.
nope...The 666 beast is Muslim.
next time you see the Iranian president on TV,Because he is the 666 beast, even if the world does not recognize him to be the 666 beast at the time of him making the covenant of peace ~~ he is still spiritually the "titular head" of the Muslim world spiritually.
fiction...It's just that when he confirms this covenant, he has not yet declared himself to be God, the 666 Mahdi, the leader of all world religions. He has not yet declared war on the saints to commit global genocide against all Christians. He will do so 1260 days after confirming that covenant at the abomination of desolation.
WOW!...that's all I can say!The "covenant" is not made with Middle East Israel, in my view. The "covenant" is made with the second covenant Christian nation under God: the USA. The "covenant" is made in deceit. The 666 beast is lying as a master of intrigue. The 666 beast swears "peace" to the people of the USA and it's Constitution. However, the 666 beast planned all along to destroy the USA, to install global Islam, declare himself God, and commit genocide against Christians utterly destroying the USA in "fundamental transformation".
he may share some "traits" that some "think" the antiChrist hasAt the midpoint of the apocalypse, the abomination of desolation, the lie of the 666 beast as well as his clear identity as the 666 beast is made clear (at least to Christians). He does "everything" the 666 beast will do in the abomination of desolation.
The 666 beast, in my view, enters the office of POTUS as a secret Muslim with the above-stated intentions. He perjures himself to take the oath of office to the position of POTUS as he swears to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution. He is hailed as a "man of peace". In fact, he is immediately nominated for and receives the Nobel Peace Prize.
we are in disagreement and I have no further need to even entertain Obama (or any man of flesh) as the end time son of Perdition...The oath of office is the "covenant" between the Arab/Muslim world and Christiandom. The 666 beast represents the Arab/Muslim world in the oath to the USA. The USA represents, as stated, the Christian nation under God to whom/which the 666 beast makes the oath to confirm the covenant.
The oath the Muslim 666 beast takes to be sworn into the office of POTUS is a form of "covenant of peace". It is a lie on the part of the 666 beast (Mahdi). He does represent Islam as the "unknown" titular head of Islam/the Muslim world as he takes the oath of office to POTUS. He initiates the 7 year apocalypse in so doing.
Thus, viewing the fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 as a "peace agreement" between the Muslim world via the Muslim 666 beast and Christiandom via the second covenant Christian nation of the USA (a second covenant nation under God -- thus spiritually a second covenant type of "Israel), this is fulfilled in the 666 beast swearing an oath of office to become President of the United States of America.
Zeke, this is so disengenuous it appears bias through personal or political affiliation often referred to as "drinking the koolaid". It is not advisable to believe everything one hears on the MSM or Soteoro (aka Obama) campaign HQ.you are incorrect friend
Obama was born in Hawaii, in August 1961 as a US citizen
he does not have dual citizenship
he is a Christian and has stated such many times
do not believe everything you read about him on the internet
speculation and lies...
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] To those who argue, “That’s all nonsense, if you have a Hawaiian birth certificate you must have been born in Hawaii,” they need to account for the fact that Obama’s half-sister Maya Soetoro-Ng also has a Hawaiian short form certification of birth yet readily admits she was born in Indonesia in 1970. [/FONT][/FONT]http://colony14.net/id41.html
From "FactCheckOrg" which is in the tank for Soteoro (aka Obama):
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC. FactCheck.org: Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?
As far as Sotoero having been "born in the USA" ~~ we have no definitive factual evidence to that effect. No long form birth certificate has been presented. Moreover, millions of dollars have been spent blocking Constitutional efforts to gain access to a long form birth certificate as a factor of factual proof of eligibility for office. Therefore, it's quite possible Soetoro was not born in Hawaii and was only a UK citizen at the time of his birth.
Moreover, it is likely true that all USA citizenship was surrendered and Soteoro (aka Obama) is today an Indonesian, rather than US, citizen. If there was nothing to hide, Soteoro would end speculation by releasing records -- but has instead spent millions fighting discovery:
In 1966 or 1967 Ann Dunham married Indonesian Muslim Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo (1936-1987), who she had met at the University of Hawaii. By birth, Soetoro was Malaysian, but he had lived in Indonesia most of his life. Soon after his marriage to Dunham, Soetoro returned, alone, to Indonesia. Obama and Dunham later moved to Indonesia to join Soetoro, probably in 1967. Soetoro then adopted Obama, whose name was changed to Barry Soetoro. Elementary school records in Indonesia list Obama’s name as Barry Soetoro, his religion as Islam, and his citizenship as Indonesian. While in Jakarta, Obama attended Franciscus Primary School (1967-1969) and Besuki State Elementary School Menteng 01 (1969-1971). [6,14,172,289,324,329,801]...
Obama was legally adopted by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro, which made Obama an Indonesian citizen, according to Indonesian law. Because Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, Obama thus lost his U.S. citizenship when he became an Indonesian citizen, in or about 1967. At that point Obama also ceased to be a Kenyan citizen {Note that his father Obama Sr. transferred from UK citizenship to Kenyan citizenship in 1963 thus transferring Barry Soteoro's (aka BHO's) citizenship from UK to Kenyan}, according to both Indonesian and Kenyan law. Indonesian law would also have required Ann Dunham to renounce her U.S. citizenship for her marriage to Lolo Soetoro to have been considered legal. If, after Obama returned to Hawaii, he applied for and was granted American citizenship, he would be a naturalized citizen (like California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger) and not a natural born citizen, and would therefore be ineligible to serve as President of the U.S. It is possible that Obama did not even bother to become a naturalized citizen of the United States, and remains an Indonesian citizen even today. Appropriate federal records would exist if Obama made application for naturalization. If they exist, they have not been made public. [258,300,305,492]
Indonesia’s policy of not allowing dual citizenship must be respected by the United States in accordance with the Hague Convention of 1930. Further, Obama, as a child, was not required to personally renounce his U.S. citizenship – that would have been an automatic result of his adoption by Lolo Soetoro. [492]
According to Indonesian legal experts, it is extremely difficult for non-Indonesian citizens to enroll in public schools in that country. That was especially true during the 1960s, when Indonesia was a police state, and Indonesian immigration employees and the police performed weekly checks on public schools to confirm citizenship compliance. This further supports the assumption that Obama was adopted by Soetoro. (Some argue that he was not adopted by Soetoro.) Obama’s half-sister, Maya Soetoro Ng, has stated that Obama was adopted by their father, Lolo Soetoro. [329,801]
Indonesia today still does not allow dual citizenship. Under Indonesia law, once Obama became a naturalized citizen by virtue of adoption, he could not lose that status without relinquishing his citizenship in writing, under oath. If he did that, the government of Indonesia would have those records. If he did not do so by age 21, Obama is to this day still an Indonesian citizen. His place of birth or the nationality of his mother is irrelevant; Indonesian law takes precedence under “The Master Nationality Rule of Article 4 of the Hague Convention on 1930.” The United States accepts dual nationality only if the other country does; Indonesia does not. [801] http://colony14.net/id41.html
(I'll come back to your statement that Obama is a Christian and has said so many times. I believe Charles Manson could claim to be a Christian, as well. Saying so doesn't make it so.)
As previously stated, Charles Manson could claim to be a Christian and repeat that lie many times. Saying so doesn't make it so.he is a Christian and has stated such many times
Rise of the 666 Beast:
The scripture says, 1 Thessalonians 5:19Quench not the Spirit. 20Despise not prophesyings. So in reverence for the Word of God, let's examine scripture and current events.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
On January 20, 2009, Barry Sotero (also known as "Barack Hussein Obama") was "inaugurated" as President of the United States of America. However, the oath was not legally stated with the words in proper order on January 20, 2009. Therefore, the oath was repeated on January 21, 2009. Justice John Roberts repeated the swearing in of Barry Sotero into office. "One legal expert said an oath administered incorrectly is not the oath. "It's just 35 words, but they have to be said; they have to be said in that order," said George Washington University Law School professor Jonathan Turley (from article)."
So, it is "debatable" on which date Sotero was officially sworn into office. I personally would select the January 21, 2009 date. As I watched, I personally saw a "sign". So long as Barry Sotero held his hand on the Holy Bible (in this case the Holy Bible of Abraham Lincoln), his swearing in was invalidated. Sotero was unable to properly state the words of the oath of office. On January 21, 2009, no Holy Bible was present.
Because the Holy Bible is so very significant, I will take the time to speak of this matter in greater detail. First, Barry Sotero was incapable of being sworn into office with his hand upon a Holy Bible (on January 20, 2009; the Holy Bible belonging to Abraham Lincoln was used). Second, the Holy Bible was of no consequence to Barry Sotero on January 21, 2009. Having his hand on a Bible meant nothing to him personally, clearly, because he had no Bible present at his "second" swearing in.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL47_zMQbZ0]
Third, because no Holy Bible was present in the second swearing in ceremony, I gather having a Holy Bible present at the first swearing in ceremony was a "marketing tool". The Holy Bible was used by Barry Sotero, in other words, as a prop to manipulate the minds of the people of the United States of America to create a marketing image for himself.
Personally, I believe the Holy Bible is to Barry Sotero what holy water is to a vampire. The bottom-line is that Sotero was incapable of being sworn into the office of President of the United States of America with his hand upon the Word of God.
My position is that Barry Sotero (aka Barack Hussein Obama) is the 666 beast of the Book of Revelation who rises as the ruler of the endtimes one world government. The scripture states that this individual will take a position as a "master of intrigue".
Daniel 8:23 "In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior.
Barry Sotero has produced no records related to his background, associations, and history. He has not so much as produced a long form birth certificate proving he was born in the United States of America. He was born of a foreign father, disputedly on foreign soil. This means he is not a natural born citizen of the United States of America having two American citizens as parents. His father, being a citizen of Kenya during colonization, was a citizen of Britain. If Barry Sotero was born on American soil, he would have possessed dual citizenship as a Britain and as an American. If he was born on foreign soil, according to the laws at that time, he would have been solely a Britain and not an American citizen (due to his mothers age when he was born on foreign soil).
Therefore, those who believe the 666 beast arises from Europe, please note that Barry Sotero "qualifies". He was born a dual citizen of the USA and the United Kingdom if born on American soil. He was, thereby, born a citizen of both Europe and the USA. However, if he was born in Kenya, Barry Sotero was born solely a citizen of the UK and thus Europe and did not possess American citizenship. Now, I do not believe Barry Sotero is constitutionally qualified to occupy the office of President of the United States of America. He does not have two American citizens as parents, etc., etc., etc. He refuses to release his long form birth certificate (if one exists). That is also a "sign" of the 666 beast. Sotero took the office of POTUS, purported to be the position of "leader of the free world", by intrigue and deceit.
So, we have Barry Sotero appearing as a "master of intrigue" moving by deceit as scripture states will be his character and actions. The scripture states also that he will consider himself superior. Sotero's attitude of superiority is widely noted.
To begin the 7 year apocalypse, we look for an event in which the 666 beast rises to power. He is hailed as a political messiah, a religious messiah, as he rises.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdSSmcMOF8&feature=related]
Now, please note that Louis Farrakhan has been a visitor to the White House to personally visit with Barry Sotero. Please note that Sotero, from the position of President of the United States of America, has not distanced himself from Farrakhan. Rather, Sotero has legitimized Farrakhan by receiving Farrakhan into the White House. Please note, Farrakhan's religion calls whites "devils" and calls for racial genocide against whites as well as the genocide of non-Muslims.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fcf8Z7pzjw]
Click here for an article on Obama represented as a messiah March 2010 by New York Times article photo:
Another article on numerous similar photos, magazine covers here:
Here's the "Iam" video in which Obama is worshiped as a crowd chants and sings "Obama! Obama! Obama!". People say that Obama is going to provide "a world without fear; Obama rising to power is "a revival for the soul". "We are the ones... we can change the world"... Must see video.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghSJsEVf0pU]
Newsweek Editor Evan Thomas declares that "Obamas standing above the country, above above the world, hes sort of God."
Here, Oprah declares Sotero is "the One" and the crowd goes wild in adoration and shouting. They are hailing Obama clearly as a political, perhaps even religious, messiah. Listening to the shouts of acclimation at about 1-1/2 minutes in as Oprah declares Obama to be "The One" prophesied in destiny, etc. is incredible. ("The One = "The Messiah": the black Messiah destined to destroy America then arise as a form of "Mahdi" according to Black Liberation Theology. Oprah called Sotero "the One" having attended a Black Liberation Theology church. She apparently knew what is taught regarding "the One" when she called Sotero "the One".)
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF3U7XTKJCw&feature=related]
We see also the symbolism of the revived Roman empire. Sotero chose Greco-Roman columns in a neoclassical temple facade as the scene of his nomination acceptance speech. The stage is set eerily like one might imagine it would be set someday for a man presenting himself to the world as God.
Sotero "looking forward" to "entering the temple" and declaring himself to be God in the abomination of desolation??
Part 1 Endtime Prophecy ~ Part III Rise of the 666 Beast 1/20/2009 (or 1/21/2009) in Obama (aka Sotero) “Inauguration”?? | 12 Star Truth
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