The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine? But accepted?

[DingDing]

I think we are going round in circles...

I thought we did that every day.

 

[JacksBratt]

Firstly, if we, the church, the saved, the born again, the ones of this time that have "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" are the Bride of Christ. AND, if we are to be married to the Lamb, who is Christ. How can we be made ready and have the marriage, in heaven and then return with Christ at the battle of Armageddon?

The Apostle John speaks of the apparel of the saints as they return with Christ: "And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses" (Rev. 19:14). He explains the white linen robes: "And it was given to her (the saints) to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints" (Rev. 19:8).

What are these clouds? They are the saints returning with Jesus wearing white robes. In Hebrews 12:1 believers are referred to as "a cloud of witnesses." The clouds then would be all of the Church Age believers returning in immortal glorified bodies with Jesus in the air. This will also include the resurrected Old Testament saints (Rev. 19:14). As the Prophet Zechariah predicted, "...and the Lord my God, shall come, and all the saints with thee" (Zech. 14:5).

How could we be Raptured and married and return to fight Armageddon, if the "snatching" or "taking away" happened just before the Second coming?

And, secondly, I just cannot get my head around the picture of every Christian living through the tribulation. Think about what that would entail.

33.4% of the worlds population are considered to be Christian. What would happen if this amount of people were demanded to denounce God, take the mark or be beheaded?

Not even in the next decade will societies of non christian beliefs be ready to accept this kind of evil. Think of the devastation to the economy, the massive amounts of bodies, the environment alone could not deal with such a slaughter.

Thirdly, Do you think that Christ, our savior, would allow us to be subjected to the wrath that will be poured out on this earth?
We are to get our strength from the Holy Spirit. How much more strength would you need to witness your brother, sister, child, best friend being put to the test of denouncing Christ or being beheaded.

How many people, in your church circle, are strong enough Christians to kneel down and lose their head, for Christ, if put to that test. In all reality.

Your 14 year old son or daughter. Strong Christian values. Trusted in you and the church to show you how Christ will give them eternal life and protect them. Teach them that we are saved by faith and God loves us. Then, a guy with a sword takes off your head,in front of them and you think they are not going to beg for the mark????

Let's be realistic. The time of the "catching up" "snatching away" is to be at a time unknown to anyone, even to Christ when He was on earth.

If it was to happen mid trib... we would know the time of the announcement of the antichrist and the treaty of the 7 years of peace with Israel. We would then know when, thereabouts, when the mid trib time would be and people would know.

If it was at the end of the 7 year treaty, we would also know. The two or three honest Christians that would have been, in all honesty, able to survive in hiding, deceptive living, in disguise or whatever, for seven whole years of this literal Hell on earth, would surely know when the rapture would take place.

However, after seven years....... are you kidding me,


If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and we are in for one "hell" of a ride.

However, I truly believe that the time of the rapture is totally unknown and unpredictable. It will be the signal for Satan to be assured that he will have no resistance to enacting his plan. The Christians will be gone. The church will be gone. The "one who restrains", the Holy Spirit, will be gone. The earth will be left with the unbelievers, the deniers, the staunch atheists...There will be nothing to stop Satan like there was in the past.

Then, the seven years begins. We, are in heaven, being judged, given rewards, the marriage of the Bride of Christ....

After seven years, we will return with our Savior to finish the time of this age and usher in the new millennium.

Jesus stated that He would never leave us or forsake us. He told us that He would send the comforter to be with us in His absence. How could He take away the Holy Spirit, leave us hers and not become a liar?

 

[Biblewriter]

Yea! It's not quite that old.

In post #48 of this thread, I have already presented hard proof that this doctrine was clearly taught in some of the very oldest Christian writings that have survived to the present day.

 

[DingDing]

In post #48 of this thread, I have already presented hard proof that this doctrine was clearly taught in some of the very oldest Christian writings that have survived to the present day.

Google or Bing the phrase "prewrath claims of the early church fathers" and see what you find. Your hard proof is very brittle. The point of the matter is that it is very difficult to find any support of belief in a "pre-trib" rapture earlier than about 100 years ago. It is a very new end-time theory.

 

[Biblewriter]

Many people read the Revelation, Daniel and a few other passages from the Bible, and assume that they are now "experts" in Bible prophecy. But these people do not seem to realize that prophecy fills a full third of the Holy Scriptures. Numerous passages in the New Testament, for instance, make it very clear that the Psalms are prophecy. And until you are well aware of what is taught in the Psalms, in Isaiah, and in Nahum, as well as in all the other books of prophecy, you are still a neophyte in the study.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

Jesus himself said, two would be doing (this or that) and one would taken away, and the other left behind... Also, in the OT, Enoch was raptured and so was Elijah...

And, I think Paul talks about it as well... And it says somewhere, I think, that we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air or clouds, like Elijah, Like Enoch...

God Bless!

 

[Biblewriter]

Google or Bing the phrase "prewrath claims of the early church fathers" and see what you find. Your hard proof is very brittle. The point of the matter is that it is very difficult to find any support of belief in a "pre-trib" rapture earlier than about 100 years ago. It is a very new end-time theory.

I did not get my information from Google searches, but from a detailed study, over the course of many years, of what the ancients, and many other writers since that time, actually said, as opposed to the claims people made about what they said.

If you want to debate what I have posted, I will be glad to satisfy you. But there are so very many people involved in this thread that coherent discussion is almost impossible.

 

[Neogaia777]

There are three types of saints:

Old Testament saints
New Testament saints
Tribulation saints

The New Testament saints will be raptured before the Tribulation starts.

The verses that pertain to going through the Tribulation apply to the Tribulation saints, not the New Testament saints.

Any Bible evidence about three different kind of saints?

I'm asking cause I don't know and would like to know and not to be rude...

I have a current belief in a mid-trib theory, where all saints, those who have died and those alive, will be caught up in the rapture to be with the Lord, after the 3 1/2 years of peace, but before the 3 1/2 years or war and disaster and much tribulation...

God Bless!

 

[DingDing]

I did not get my information from Google searches, but from a detailed study, over the course of many years, of what the ancients, and many other writers since that time, actually said, as opposed to the claims people made about what they said.

If you want to debate what I have posted, I will be glad to satisfy you. But there are so very many people involved in this thread that coherent discussion is almost impossible.

So did you actually talk to these "ancients", or did you read something that someone said is what they wrote? I simply provided a phrase which would give you or anyone access to some discussions about what these "ancients" said. You can examine it or ignore it as you choose, but if you are really into this stuff and interested, you will take a look at it.

 

[Biblewriter]

Any Bible evidence about three different kind of saints?

I'm asking cause I don't know and would like to know and not to be rude...

God Bless!

You will find the difference between the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints in Matthew 11:11, where we read, "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Here, Jesus clearly stated that John the Baptist was at least as great as any of the great saints of the Old Testament, even as Abraham, Moses, and David. But then he just as clearly stated that even the least of the new type of saints that were now appearing, was greater than any of these.

The difference in the tribulation saints is not so clearly stated, but it is also shown in scripture.

 

[seashale76]

Google or Bing the phrase "prewrath claims of the early church fathers" and see what you find. Your hard proof is very brittle. The point of the matter is that it is very difficult to find any support of belief in a "pre-trib" rapture earlier than about 100 years ago. It is a very new end-time theory.

Yes, you're very right that this belief is quite new. If it were, in fact, a belief that was held by the early church, then we'd see the churches that can still trace their roots to said early church believing it. However, we don't see it historically. It is not a belief that is found in the rest of the world before 200 years ago with Darby and outside of America after the Scofield Study bible inserted the belief and made it popular. The Christianity that came to be popularized in America shows very little resemblance to that of the Middle East and the rest of the world.

 

[Biblewriter]

So did you actually talk to these "ancients", or did you read something that someone said is what they wrote? I simply provided a phrase which would give you or anyone access to some discussions about what these "ancients" said. You can examine it or ignore it as you choose, but if you are really into this stuff and interested, you will take a look at it.

I devoted many decades to actually reading what was written by ancient writers from all over the world. That is, I was not reading the comments of modern historians about their writings, but actually reading the books they wrote. And many years of this research was devoted to actually reading what ancient Christians said about the scriptures.

 

[seashale76]

I devoted many decades to actually reading what was written by ancient writers from all over the world. That is, I was not reading the comments of modern historians about their writings, but actually reading the books they wrote. And many years of this research was devoted to actually reading what ancient Christians said about the scriptures.

Yes- others have done this as well. They have vastly different beliefs than you do. Orthodoxy for the win.

 

[Biblewriter]

Yes, you're very right that this belief is quite new. If it were, in fact, a belief that was held by the early church, then we'd see the churches that can still trace their roots to said early church believing it. However, we don't see it historically. It is not a belief that is found in the rest of the world before 200 years ago with Darby and outside of America after the Scofield Study bible inserted the belief and made it popular. The Christianity that came to be popularized in America shows very little resemblance to that of the Middle East and the rest of the world.

Go back and read post #48 in this thread, and then get back to me.

 

[seashale76]

Go back and read post #48 in this thread, and then get back to me.

Your interpretations don't interest me. They don't jive with the ancient faith.

 

[Biblewriter]

Yes- others have done this as well. They have vastly different beliefs than you do. Orthodoxy for the win.

I am as orthodox as they come. But I am an actual scholar of ancient writings, and I know what these men actually said.

 

[Biblewriter]

Your interpretations don't interest me. They don't jive with the ancient faith.

I am not interpreting anything. I am telling you what these men actually wrote, and not only telling you what they said, but giving you specific references to where they said it, so you can check it out for yourself.

 

[seashale76]

I am as orthodox as they come. But I am an actual scholar of ancient writings, and I know what these men actually said.

Who is your bishop? Pretty much all of the actual theologians of the Orthodox Church reject your beliefs. They know what these men actually said too. We're not down with doctrines of men but the faith that has been traditioned.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[seashale76]

I am not interpreting anything. I am telling you what these men actually wrote, and not only telling you what they said, but giving you specific references to where they said it, so you can see it for yourself.

LOL- okay. Anything to promote the premillenial dispensationalism, eh?