The Rapture - heretical teaching

[vinsight4u]

If you are following along with this series of posts on seven angels and how they become the seven angels before Rev. 8, then head again to Rev. 15. After the seven angels come out of the temple in heaven, where do they go? They head to the earth and gain full vials from one of the four beasts. This is key as where is this beast? The beast is handing off these vials in the east. So the seven angels begin their role in Rev. 15, not Rev. 8 and they have to leave heaven's temple to descend to the location of the beast, so they can be seen by John - as ascending in Rev. 7 - from the east.

At this point of Rev. 15 - send the seven angels scene to Rev. 7, and here they come all dressed and ready in their linen outfits to seal the 144,000 and then go stand before God and speak as to how many they sealed.

 

[vinsight4u]

How can Rev. 15 belong in Rev. 7 at all?
Rev. 15 is part of the mystery of God section that John was told to make.

John had to hide events that were not for his day.
John was told to jumble the visions around, make things obscure.

Rev. 15 begins with And.
This shows that a new vision does not start here, but this verse will flow smoothly with verses elsewhere.
Rev. 15 also tells us that John saw - another sign.
So, what properly belongs ahead of this?
The first sign does.

another sign in heaven

This means we have to link this chapter to other chapter/s involvng signs in heaven. Was Rev. 11 telling us about John seeing signs?
no
But Rev. 12 does.

This means that Rev. 12 is where the sign part started for John and later came the revealing of the sign in Rev. 15 as to seven angels.

This means that it takes Rev. 12 before we could even find the time when John saw seven angels. We also know that this requires its placement ahead of Rev. 8.

Rev. 7
four angels
standing

the four angels

Rev. 7

another angel ascending from the east
we

Rev. 12
sign in heaven
another sign in heaven

Rev. 15
another sign in heaven
seven angels
the seven angels

Rev. 7
John heard the numbers that were sealed.

Rev. 8
the seven angels which stood before God


This is how to line up what John saw to better let us understand the visions.

======
Notice that the Rev. 7 four angels are given ways to hurt.
hurt the earth
the sea
the trees

If only the we angels set joins them in the vision, then didn't the we set of angels have to bring those ways to hurt as they came to Rev. 7 by way of Rev. 15?
Yes.

Do you see those hurtful ways against the sea and such mentioned prior to Rev. 7:1?
No.

So this means that John saw more than just is what at a glance shown to us during the time of Rev. 7.

John had to see seven angels, and those seven angels carried plagues with them to hurt the earth, sea and the trees. John watched as angels came from the east and handed - delivered - gave their plagues to the four angels.

Why didn't the sealing angels from the east keep their plagues?
Because the plagues need to be done in the earth area, not heaven.
The we set of angels would seal people and return to heaven to give their report to God.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ha ha! I teach the truth.

LAMAD

No...what you do is *teach* what you have been taught is the truth...perhaps you should quit making Tim Lahaye rich...and read your bible more...

 

[iamlamad]

No...what you do is *teach* what you have been taught is the truth...perhaps you should quit making Tim Lahaye rich...and read your bible more...

Just so you know, I have never read ONE BOOK from Tim Lehaye. I have read very few books from ANYONE on Revelation. I did read Rosanthal and Van Kampen, just to see where prewrath went wrong.

So if I did not read others, how did I learn? I came to God with an empty slate, NO PRECONCEPTION at all, and asked Him to teach me. I prayed much in the Holy Spirit, and I read Revelation MANY TIMES, not trying to understand it, just depositing it in my spirit. The day came when God became to speak to me. I heard His voice and His words many times. After all, John told us the Holy Spirit would come as the TEACHER. In other words, I got what I got through revelation knowledge. I know what I teach is truth. I know what you teach is NOT.

You still have time to CHANGE what you believe. Jesus has not come yet for His church. But in my mind, you don't have very long.

I have warned all here that VERY SOON Jesus is coming pretrib to gather His Bride. It is up to the readers to be ready. It is up to YOU to be ready. If you cannot believe it, you will be left behind. Plain and simple.

Please don't misunderstand me; there is still MUCH I don't know about Revelation. But what I do know, I know is truth.
LAMAD

 

[ebedmelech]

Just so you know, I have never read ONE BOOK from Tim Lehaye. I have read very few books from ANYONE on Revelation. I did read Rosanthal and Van Kampen, just to see where prewrath went wrong.

So if I did not read others, how did I learn? I came to God with an empty slate, NO PRECONCEPTION at all, and asked Him to teach me. I prayed much in the Holy Spirit, and I read Revelation MANY TIMES, not trying to understand it, just depositing it in my spirit. The day came when God became to speak to me. I heard His voice and His words many times. After all, John told us the Holy Spirit would come as the TEACHER. In other words, I got what I got through revelation knowledge. I know what I teach is truth. I know what you teach is NOT.

You still have time to CHANGE what you believe. Jesus has not come yet for His church. But in my mind, you don't have very long.

I have warned all here that VERY SOON Jesus is coming pretrib to gather His Bride. It is up to the readers to be ready. It is up to YOU to be ready. If you cannot believe it, you will be left behind. Plain and simple.

Please don't misunderstand me; there is still MUCH I don't know about Revelation. But what I do know, I know is truth.
LAMAD

I won't change a thing...it's on the last day...and being a saint brings tribulation!

As for the tribulation you think of...it happened...so I guess you missed the rapture.

 

[random person]

But immediately after the Tribulation of those days...

The sun will be darkened...

The moon will not give its light...

And the stars will fall from the sky...

And the powers of the heavens will be shaken...

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...

An hour is coming...

When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire...

Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory...

Dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus...

And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...

Those who committed evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment...

When He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed...

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we all shall be changed, in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, for the last trumpet will sound,

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel...

All who are in the tombs shall hear his voice and shall come forth...

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet...

With the trumpet of God...

The dead in Christ shall rise first...

Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life...

And the dead in Christ will be raised imperishable...

We who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep...

We shall all be changed...

And they (angels) with gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other...

We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord...

This perishable must put on imperishable...

This mortal must put on immortality...

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God...

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 286:

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God...

1 Corinthians 15:50 refers to people in mortal/corruptible flesh and blood bodies, as opposed to people in immortal/incorruptible resurrection "flesh and bone" bodies (possibly without blood as we know it) like Jesus was resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25).

1 Corinthians 15:50 means that people in mortal bodies won't inherit the eternal (as opposed to the millennial) aspect of the kingdom of God, which will be on the new earth in the descended New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1 to 22:15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7 to 22:15).

1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom. For the elect Jews who won't become believers until Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14) could inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom (Zechariah 14:5-21, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) in their mortal bodies. For the resurrection/changing of believers into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) could be experienced only by those who had become believers before the 2nd coming.

Also, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will even enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For just as people can enter someone's house and stay there for awhile without inheriting that house, so the people left alive at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:39b-40) who won't get saved at that time will enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom in their mortal bodies without inheriting the kingdom. Instead, they will be its forced subjects (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3), ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2).

Similarly, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies can even enter the 3rd-heaven aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For at the time of Revelation 11:11-12, the two witnesses will be in resuscitated mortal bodies, like, e.g., the resuscitated mortal bodies of Lazarus and Tabitha (John 11:43-44, Acts 9:36-40). For the resurrection of believers into immortal bodies won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until after the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And when Revelation 11:12 shows that the two witnesses will ascend "up" to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies, it doesn't say that they will inherit the 3rd heaven, just as when Paul says that he at one point during his lifetime could have been taken to the 3rd heaven in his mortal body (2 Corinthians 12:2-7), he doesn't say that he inherited the 3rd heaven, and just as when Enoch and Elijah were taken to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11), it doesn't say that they inherited the 3rd heaven.

 

[vinsight4u]

Using the fact that the stars fall in Rev. 6 -showing the great tribulation is over, we know that Rev. 7 must be helps to understand the events taking place during the seals. What I want to show is that lots and lots of events were shown to John between the end of Rev. 6 and the start of Rev. 8.
If we look at Rev. 7 as showing us key events to take place within the seals, then we know it must somewhere reveal the great tribulation to us.

I've told you how Rev. 7 begins a new vision, and I've shown you how there are two sets of angels near the start of this vision.

four angels standing
and
the sealing we set of angels that ascended from the east

We know that the we set of angels came from the east, because that is where the beast gave them the full vials.
Here is something else to realize -
The seven angels left the temple in Rev. 15 dressed to seal people and they were carrying plagues of their own.
John will later tell us that this set of plagues has to end before men can enter into the temple.

Rev. 15 shows three sets of harms to be done by the seven angels.
The first set of set of plagues -the ones they left the temple in heaven as holding -will have to end before men can enter into the temple in heaven.

Rev. 15 has -
the seven last plagues
the seven plagues of the seven angels
the full seven vials (given to them by one of the four beasts)
/This beast is in Babylon -the east.
The east is where John was going to watch the riders during the time of the first four seals.

So Rev. 7 has four angels and then the seven got full vials from the beast in the east came into Rev. 7 carrying three sets of seven plagues.

Now what happens?
Well, see how the four angels get something? They get ways to hurt stuff. We just saw how the ways to hurt (plagues) are found first in Rev. 15. So coming from Rev. 15, bringing with them their sets of plagues are the seven angels dressed in linen with pockets - ready to seal people. What do they have iwth them?
three sets of plagues - harms -ways to hurt
This is key, as there is one set of plagues that they will hand off to the four angels set.

the four angels
to whom it was given

Try to picture the scene at the opening of Rev. 7.
John has learned the great trib has ended -6th seal.
John now begins a new vision of sets of angels.
The one set of angels has ways to hurt to give to the other set of angels.
The ways to hurt have to come from Rev. 15 - as that is when the plagues get in the possession of the other set of angels (the seven angels).

Rev. 7 opens
4 angels stand
and get something from the other set of angels showing up

ways to hurt - the earth
ways to hurt - the sea

And then notice a break here. What happens? Why is the trees plague part added later? The trees plague is added after the we angel speaks a message to the four angels set. Why is this? Because it is the final angel of the we angel set that brings and gives away the trees plague to the four angels set. John was watching the various angels come from the east, and then before the last one shows up to speak - John had already seen the earth and sea harms be given to the four angels set. The last angel of the seven angels from Rev. 15 - of the we angels set -gave away the trees plague.

now - the four angels standing
-will have plagues of - earth, sea, trees

They were given these plagues by the seven we angels coming into Rev. 7 by way of events of Rev. 15.

Here is a major key to add to our study.
When you look at the start of Rev. 15, what does John tell you that he saw?

another sign in heaven

So just as in Rev. 7 - when John told us that he saw another angel ascending -
we are to know that he saw more than this one do that action.

So since we must allow Rev. 15 to be seen by John during the time of Rev. 7, we must also move ahead to Rev. 7 any other events that unfolded to John that took him to the time of seeing Rev. 15.

Let me show you what I mean.

Rev. 12:1 is where John sees a sign in heaven.
a sign

not - another sign as in Rev. 15:1.
So it takes Rev. 12 unfolding to John before he can see seven angels as another sign in Rev. 15:1.

We now know that Rev. 12 was seen during Rev. 7.
We know that Rev. 15 was unfolding during Rev. 7.

Just take a moment and look how off the end of Rev. 11 is to the start of Rev. 12. That is because these were not seen near each other in time.

Rev. 12
signs begin to be shown to John
One of those signs is - a dragon.

Rev. 13 will mention -the dragon.
a beast

Rev. 15 another sign is seen.
the beast

/John wrote the events out using proper grammar.
When he came to the time of the seven thunders message/s being sealed up- he jumbled the visions as they were not for his day.

Rev. 7
four angels
the four angels
to whom it was given to hurt

the we angels - came from the east
carried sets of plagues
gave one set to the four angels that would stay in the earth area

The we set of angels would return to heaven, giving a report to God as to how many had been sealed by them.

Angels in heaven are not going to bring plagues on the earth, sea, and trees. Angels in the earth area must do the plagues.

trumpets -sound in heaven
angels on the earth - will cause the plagues

What you need to do is realize that a dragon, a beast, seven angels (all of Rev, 12 and 13 and part of 15) -slides into Rev. 7.

This is when John saw

a woman
a dragon
a beast
seven angels

This is why John tells us in Rev. 8:2 that he saw the seven angels.

 

[vinsight4u]

Remember this.
John introduces new things as they come on the scene. Once they have been introduced to the reader, then John expects the reader to know what he is talking about.


An exmple of this is - Rev. 12.
John saw a woman.
John did not say - "the woman" right off.
John first has to clue the reader in as to what did this woman look like.
He then can go into the details of what this woman was seen to do.

Just as reading any other book, you must introduce unknown characters to the reader.

For instance - you can't just say - I saw the river.

The reader is confused, unless you first tell what river.

John says - that he saw - the sun.
Okay, no need to give us clues as to what the sun looks like.

John saw at times angels in heaven.
Sometimes, they were in sets, other times - he told us - many or all.

John saw four angels standing.
If John had said - I saw the four angels standing -/
it would have meant they were already in the story somewhere earlier than Rev. 7:1.

5th seal/great tribulation - little season
6th seal -trib is over - sun black - stars fall

Rev. 7- begins a new vision.

This means that Rev. 8 was not part of the same vision as Rev. 6's.

The wicked want the rocks to fall on them - they want to hide from the face of the One on the throne.

These are not men trying not to die - they want rocks to cover them up.
They have seen Jesus Christ sitting on the right hand of power - and He is coming in glory for the saints. He is bringing the sleeping saints with Him.

We shall all be changed.
at the last trump
for the trumpet shall sound

the dead in Christ shall rise

Jesus told that he would raise all - at the last day.
Jesus, nor Paul, nor Daniel - spoke of two resurrections of the just.

 

[vinsight4u]

But immediately after the Tribulation of those days...

The sun will be darkened...

The moon will not give its light...

And the stars will fall from the sky...

And the powers of the heavens will be shaken...

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky...

An hour is coming...

When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire...

Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory...

Dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus...

And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...

Those who committed evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment...

When He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed...

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we all shall be changed, in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, for the last trumpet will sound,

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel...

All who are in the tombs shall hear his voice and shall come forth...

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet...

With the trumpet of God...

The dead in Christ shall rise first...

Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life...

And the dead in Christ will be raised imperishable...

We who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep...

We shall all be changed...

And they (angels) with gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other...

We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord...

This perishable must put on imperishable...

This mortal must put on immortality...

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God...

So, you seem to understand that the great tribulation against Israel is over before the sun goes black in the time of the 6th seal?

5th seal - great tribulation
6th seal - sun black/stars fall from heaven

Jesus told that the sun shall be darkened and the stars of heaven fall to the earth events - come after the great tribulation.

 

[vinsight4u]

We see how the great tribulation must end before John saw a new vision in Rev. 7.

So, can we go deeper into Rev. 7 to see links to the seals that were just earlier opened - that led to the end of the great tribulation?
Yes.


What can be a super big help here is to pull in keys from the OT.
Head to Ezekiel 7 and see how Babylon was coming - at the time of

four corners
and
with many ways to slay the people

Why should you read Ezekiel 7?
Because Rev. 7 is also a time of four corners.
This would mean to expect a rider/s - a nation - to come with many ways to slay the people.

Notice the fourth seal time.
This is when the rider/s come with many ways to kill the people.


Rev. 7 - 4th seal - sword - hunger - death- beasts of the earth

Ezekiel 7- sword, famine, pestilence

Rev. 7 is going to take us up to the time of the rider/s with many ways to slay the people.
It is the time of when four corners is about to begin.

Where do the four angels get seen as to stand in Rev. 7?

on the four corners

 

[vinsight4u]

How should you look at Rev. 6 and Rev. 7?
Why didn't God just show it all to John during the seals?
Why is it broken into different visions?

Rev. 6- shows John what happens in one location.
come - and see

Rev. 7 takes John into what happens in that area, plus the rest of the world.

 

[iamlamad]

I won't change a thing...it's on the last day...and being a saint brings tribulation!

As for the tribulation you think of...it happened...so I guess you missed the rapture.

You live in a dream world of man's reasoning. You will be left behind wondering.

LAMAD

 

[random person]

1 Corinthians 15:50 refers to people in mortal/corruptible flesh and blood bodies, as opposed to people in immortal/incorruptible resurrection "flesh and bone" bodies (possibly without blood as we know it) like Jesus was resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25).

1 Corinthians 15:50 means that people in mortal bodies won't inherit the eternal (as opposed to the millennial) aspect of the kingdom of God, which will be on the new earth in the descended New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1 to 22:15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7 to 22:15).

1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom. For the elect Jews who won't become believers until Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14) could inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom (Zechariah 14:5-21, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) in their mortal bodies. For the resurrection/changing of believers into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) could be experienced only by those who had become believers before the 2nd coming.

Also, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will even enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For just as people can enter someone's house and stay there for awhile without inheriting that house, so the people left alive at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:39b-40) who won't get saved at that time will enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom in their mortal bodies without inheriting the kingdom. Instead, they will be its forced subjects (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3), ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2).

Similarly, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies can even enter the 3rd-heaven aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For at the time of Revelation 11:11-12, the two witnesses will be in resuscitated mortal bodies, like, e.g., the resuscitated mortal bodies of Lazarus and Tabitha (John 11:43-44, Acts 9:36-40). For the resurrection of believers into immortal bodies won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until after the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And when Revelation 11:12 shows that the two witnesses will ascend "up" to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies, it doesn't say that they will inherit the 3rd heaven, just as when Paul says that he at one point during his lifetime could have been taken to the 3rd heaven in his mortal body (2 Corinthians 12:2-7), he doesn't say that he inherited the 3rd heaven, and just as when Enoch and Elijah were taken to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11), it doesn't say that they inherited the 3rd heaven.

Matthew 22:29-30

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Acts 13:34

As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay,

1 Corinthians 15:44-45, 49-50

it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


So what you are saying is the secret Rapture happens then immortal Christ returns again with His immortal resurrected Rapture saints to rule for a millennial kingdom cohabiting this earth with non-glorified non-resurrected mortal human beings?

 

[random person]

So, you seem to understand that the great tribulation against Israel is over before the sun goes black in the time of the 6th seal?

5th seal - great tribulation
6th seal - sun black/stars fall from heaven

Jesus told that the sun shall be darkened and the stars of heaven fall to the earth events - come after the great tribulation.

You missed the point of the post in that the Tribulation precedes your "Rapture" in verses Matt. 24:29, 31!

 

[Biblewriter]

You missed the point of the post in that the Tribulation precedes your "Rapture" in verses Matt. 24:29, 31!

That would be true if, but only if, the rapture is when the Son of Man comes with power and great glory.

The scriptures describe two future comings of Christ, not just one. The one with power and great glory is after the tribulation. The other one is before the tribulation.

 

[ebedmelech]

You live in a dream world of man's reasoning. You will be left behind wondering.

LAMAD

What's "man reasoning" is your "pre-trib rapture theory". You have to contort the scriptures to justify it.

So I won't be "left behind" because even that reasoning is faulty! Our Lord said "He who endures to the end will be saved". .He didn't say "he who doesn't believe the rapture, will be left behind". That...is "man's reasoning", and you;re the one falling for it.

 

[random person]

The other one is before the tribulation.

Where is this verse?

Or are you talking about 1 Thess. 4:16-17?

When millions of Christians both resurrected and alive miraculously disappear off the face of the earth even though they are supposed to meet the Lord in the air descending from heaven with a shout and the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God blows????

That is coming with great power and glory in my book.

 

[iamlamad]

What's "man reasoning" is your "pre-trib rapture theory". You have to contort the scriptures to justify it.

So I won't be "left behind" because even that reasoning is faulty! Our Lord said "He who endures to the end will be saved". .He didn't say "he who doesn't believe the rapture, will be left behind". That...is "man's reasoning", and you;re the one falling for it.

He was talking to JEWS about the end of THEIR WEEK. THEY must "endure to the end." The church did not even exist when Jesus said this.

You will find it impossible to "correct" truth, for it cannot be corrected. Jesus will come first FOR His saints, and later WITH His saints.

You will miss the marriage and supper, for that will take place IN HEAVEN before Jesus returns on the White horse, as shown in chapter 19. How will you get there? You WON'T because you don't believe in the pretrib rapture that will get the BRIDE there for the wedding. Go ahead and miss it - I don't care. There will be many empty chairs there....people born again, but did not make the rapture.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

Where is this verse?

Or are you talking about 1 Thess. 4:16-17?

When millions of Christians both resurrected and alive miraculously disappear off the face of the earth even though they are supposed to meet the Lord in the air descending from heaven with a shout and the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God blows????

That is coming with great power and glory in my book.

If you don't believe 1 Thes. 4 is PRETRIB, then "your book" is wrong. Throw the dumb thing AWAY and go with the Bible!

Did you not understand Paul? His rapture comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord and will be the trigger for the SIGNS for that Day of the Lord. In Revelation that is at the 6th seal, more than 7 years BEFORE Jesus comes on the white horse. So will you attempt to rearrange Revelation to fit your FALSE theory? Or will you just IGNORE what Paul teaches?

LAMAD