The Rapture - heretical teaching

[Biblewriter]

The parable of the ten virgins is a warning to believers, the church is the BRIDE of Christ after all!

The ten virgins represent the confessors and the professors, the born again and the hypocrites!

But you are twisting these parables into meaning a pre-Trib Rapture... which is not its intent!

You continue to refuse to admit that one parable explicitly has the righteous gathered first, while the other explicitly has the wicked gathered first. You cannot deny it, so you continue to try to talk around it.

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter said in post 321:

You continue to refuse to admit that one parable explicitly has the righteous gathered first, while the other explicitly has the wicked gathered first.

One parable is post-tribulation and the other is post-millennium.

Regarding the weeds/tares, in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect, and the weeds/tares are the nonelect, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43, the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment, when a new earth (i.e. a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

 

[iamlamad]

Matt.24:21, ie, only a head's up: Matt.24:21, "for there shall then be great tribulation" The reason for all these biddings is the terrible state of the nation when the Roman war will begin wayyy back then fulfilled, ie, 67-70 A.D. No nation had ever piled up a guilt such as that of the Jews who were chosen of God, infinitely blessed, and yet crucified God's Son, and trampled upon all his further grace like we are almost doing today during this full blown apostasy that I was born into. :o

No judgment had ever and can ever be so severe. In the history of the world no judgment can be compared with this that wiped out the Jews as a nation, ie, forget about the bankster's made 1948 Israel, ie, given over except for the true Christians there.

<snip> only for clarity



Old Jack

What Rome did cannot even be compared to what Hitler did. One reason why "those days" of "Great Tribulation" are still ahead of us. It will be VERY SIMILAR to what Hitler did, but this time world wide. And this time beheading rather than gas chambers.

LAMAD

 

[random person]

You continue to refuse to admit that one parable explicitly has the righteous gathered first, while the other explicitly has the wicked gathered first. You cannot deny it, so you continue to try to talk around it.

What are you talking about, the professors and hypocrites are being denied the Kingdom and falling under judgment:

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Matthew 7:21-23

Compared to:

Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.' But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Matthew 25:11-13

 

[Biblewriter]

What are you talking about, the professors and hypocrites are being denied the Kingdom and falling under judgment:

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Matthew 7:21-23

Compared to:

Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.' But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Matthew 25:11-13

Are you stubborn or just dense? Who is counted righteous and who is counted wicked is not the point.

The point is in one case Jesus had the righteous removed from the scene before the wicked were. In the other case, He had the wicked removed from the scene before the righteous were.

These two things cannot be done at the same time.

 

[random person]

Are you stubborn or just dense? Who is counted righteous and who is counted wicked is not the point.

The point is in one case Jesus had the righteous removed from the scene before the wicked were. In the other case, He had the wicked removed from the scene before the righteous were.

These two things cannot be done at the same time.

What do Matthew 7:21 & Matthew 25:1 have in common?

 

[Biblewriter]

What do Matthew 7:21 & Matthew 25:1 have in common?

Neither of these passages has anything to do with the point I made. Are you ever going to address it, or are you just going to continue to try to dance around it?

If you are not going to answer my point, I have better things to do than to waste time on your nonsense.

 

[random person]

Neither of these passages has anything to do with the point I made. Are you ever going to address it, or are you just going to continue to try to dance around it?

If you are not going to answer my point, I have better things to do than to waste time on your nonsense.

It is not nonsense!

What does Luke 12:35-40 & 13:24-28 say?

Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit. Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks. Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them. Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.

&#8220;But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into. You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.&#8221;

Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, &#8216;Lord, open up to us!&#8217; then He will answer and say to you, &#8216;I do not know where you are from.&#8217; Then you will begin to say, &#8216;We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets&#8217;; and He will say, &#8216;I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.&#8217; In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

 

[random person]

BTW, the answer to my previous question about the two Matthew Verses was "Kingdom of God"!

 

[iamlamad]

It is difficult to find the correct timing or order or sequence for:

Parable of the virgins
Paul's rapture
Jesus coming on the white horse
Luke 12:35-40 parable
Parable of the tares
Matthew 7:21-23 parable
The judgment of the nations
Enter the Millennial Kingdom!

I don't think any of Jesus' parables are about Paul's rapture coming except the 10 virgins parable. All the rest are His coming as seen in Rev. 19

We must keep in mind, the "church" or body of Christ was a mystery when Jesus was alive. Did Jesus know about the church while He was walking the earth? I would say, ONLY if the Holy Spirit revealed it to Him. Remember, He laid aside His Godly attributes such as being all knowing, when He came to earth. Many don't understand this. He did all His miracles, not as God but as a man filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore it is VERY possible Jesus did not know if Israel would accept Him or deny Him after He rose from the dead.

We also must remember, Jesus never said ANYTHING unless He heard from His Father. So He could have said something pertaining to the church, if Father God told Him. The question is, did He? We can find VERY LITTLE if anything about the church in the gospels. Therefore I believe most of the parables about the end will be about Jesus coming in Rev. 19.

Paul's rapture will be a separate coming, 7 plus years before Rev. 19.

LAMAD

 

[riverrat]

BTW, the answer to my previous question about the two Matthew Verses was "Kingdom of God"!

Try "kingdom of heaven" not the "kingdom of God".

 

[Biblewriter]

It is not nonsense!

What does Luke 12:35-40 & 13:24-28 say?

Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit. Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks. Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them. Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.

“But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into. You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.”

Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

You are still avoiding the central point. Are you going to try to answer the undeniable fact that the order of events is reversed in the two accounts, or are you going to continue to play games?

 

[Biblewriter]

BTW, the answer to my previous question about the two Matthew Verses was "Kingdom of God"!

And that was 100% irrelevant to the point in question, as has been every other pretended answer you have given me.

I am not going to even address any other question you ask me until you address my point. Try to explain why Jesus himself reversed the order of events in his two parables about his coming, and their explanation.

 

[random person]

You are still avoiding the central point. Are you going to try to answer the undeniable fact that the order of events is reversed in the two accounts, or are you going to continue to play games?

And that was 100% irrelevant to the point in question, as has been every other pretended answer you have given me.

I am not going to even address any other question you ask me until you address my point. Try to explain why Jesus himself reversed the order of events in his two parables about his coming, and their explanation.

There is no reversal, Matt. 24:31 speaks only of the gathering of the elect.

While Matt. 25:10 speaks of both the gathering of the elect (wheat & lambs) and the casting out of the tares and goats.

 

[Biblewriter]

There is no reversal, Matt. 24:31 speaks only of the gathering of the elect.

While Matt. 25:10 speaks of both the gathering of the elect (wheat & lambs) and the casting out of the tares and goats.

The reversal of order is not between Matthew 24 and Matthew 25. It is between Matthew 25:10-12 and Matthew 13:24-30.

Matthew 25 clearly speaks of the righteous going in to the wedding, while the wicked are left outside, and the wicked refused when they afterward come seeking admittance. Matthew 13 just as clearly says that the wicked will be removed first, and the righteous are gathered. These two orders of events cannot be done at the same time. And yes, the original Greek texts use the words afterward, and first.

 

[random person]

The reversal of order is not between Matthew 24 and Matthew 25. It is between Matthew 25:10-12 and Matthew 13:24-30.

Matthew 25 clearly speaks of the righteous going in to the wedding, while the wicked are left outside, and the wicked refused when they afterward come seeking admittance. Matthew 13 just as clearly says that the wicked will be removed first, and the righteous are gathered. These two orders of events cannot be done at the same time. And yes, the original Greek texts use the words afterward, and first.

Three questions:

What about the lack of order in Matt. 3:12

His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

And what about the conclusion of the parable of the ten virgins?

But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I DO NOT KNOW YOU.’ Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.


And its similarity to the conclusion in Matt. 7:23?

I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

[shturt678s]

There is no reversal, Matt. 24:31 speaks only of the gathering of the elect.

Matt.24:31 pictures the "1" Parousia, ie, IThess.4:14-17.

While Matt. 25:10 speaks of both the gathering of the elect (wheat & lambs) and the casting out of the tares and goats.

Matt.25:10 with v.12 again speaks of the "1" Parousia, ie, IThess.4:14-17.

Old Jack

 

[Biblewriter]

Three questions:

What about the lack of order in Matt. 3:12

His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.&#8221;

And what about the conclusion of the parable of the ten virgins?

But he answered, &#8216;Truly I say to you, I DO NOT KNOW YOU.&#8217; Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.


And its similarity to the conclusion in Matt. 7:23?

I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.&#8217;

This is a nonsense argument. You avoid a problem you cannot answer by citing a different scripture where the problem does not exist? There is also nothing about it in Genesis 1:1. But neither reference has any bearing whatsoever on the problem.

Are you ever going to answer me, or are you going to continue to try to talk your way around the problem that the only way to explain the reversal of order between Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 is that they are speaking of two different times?

 

[iamlamad]

Matt.24:31 pictures the "1" Parousia, ie, IThess.4:14-17.



Matt.25:10 with v.12 again speaks of the "1" Parousia, ie, IThess.4:14-17.

Old Jack

Jack, when you compare Paul's rapture with the gathering in Matthew, I must write MYTH! It is impossible they are talking about the same event.
Paul's rapture comes as the trigger for the signs of the Day of the Lord, which will begin soon after the signs, while the gathering shown in Matt. 24 comes WAY later - after the days of GT and AFTER the 70th week.

LAMAD

 

[shturt678s]

Jack, when you compare Paul's rapture with the gathering in Matthew, I must write MYTH! It is impossible they are talking about the same event.
Paul's rapture comes as the trigger for the signs of the Day of the Lord, which will begin soon after the signs, while the gathering shown in Matt. 24 comes WAY later - after the days of GT and AFTER the 70th week.

LAMAD

Even Mr. Th. Kliefoth in his Das Buch Daniel 1868 miss-interpreted the burden of Daniel, yet validly interpreted Dan.9:24: "covers the time from the time of Daniel to the consummation of all things."

Old Jack