The Rapture Event

[Jan001]

Jesus is going to descend from the skies as visibly, as tangibly, as He ascended (see Acts 1:11). Revelation says, “Every eye will see him” (1:7). Paul tells us “the Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels” (2 Thessalonians 1:7). And Peter says, “The heavens will disappear with a roar” and the earth will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10).

The last judgment will begin after the people on earth rise to meet Jesus in the air after the last trumpet sounds.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

 

[Jan001]

2/ Acts 1:11 is the glorious Return, after Armageddon, Rev 16:16-18 Jesus will then reign as King of Kings for the next thousand years.

3/ Then comes the GWT Judgment; Rev 20:11-15 and the old earth will be gone and the new heavens and earth come for Eternity. Rev 21-1-7

Jesus has been reigning over heaven and earth for over two thousand years. He will continue to reign from his throne in heaven with his saints helping him until it is time for his second coming and the judgment of all peoples.

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Jesus does not ever come to earth to physically rule in Jerusalem for a 1000 year time period. Acts 7:49
The Book of Revelation is an apocalyptic (symbolic) text. Armageddon is a metaphor for Jerusalem, which was to be soon destroyed by God as punishment for rejecting their Messiah, Jesus Christ. Jerusalem, symbolically known as Babylon the Great and Sodom and Egypt, was destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman armies, which consisted of soldiers from throughout the whole Roman Empire. Luke 21:20, Revelation 11:8 God used the Roman armies to destroy Jesus' enemies along with their great city.

 

[RandyPNW]

Hi RandyPNW.

This is my understanding:

Jesus said, "Do not hold me," because his Father will crown him the King of heaven and earth. The glorified Christ's interaction with mortal humans will not be the same type of relationship as it was before his death and resurrection. Revelation 1:17-18, Mark 9:4-6

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

At the end of time, I think the people on earth will receive their glorified bodies as they begin to ascend to meet Jesus and his saints who accompany him. The saints who accompany Jesus will rise first and receive their glorified bodies shortly before the people on earth receive theirs.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

There will not be any mortal men on earth after they ascend to meet Jesus and his saints in the air. It will time for the last judgment, aka the sheep and goats judgment, and aka the great white throne judgment.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

I think God's people will inherit the earth after the last judgment, but Jesus prepared a place for them to dwell in his Father's house.

John 14:1-3 “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe [a] in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Yes, we disagree, but I appreciate you sharing what you think. I'm not completely sure about any of this--it's pretty speculative for me.

The logistics of the dead receiving glorified bodies *before* those who are caught up alive is not, I think, the point. It all takes place in a second of time! Paul's point, rather, seems to be that in treating those who are still living we should not neglect treating those who have already died.

We could debate whether there will be a Millennium or not, but this may not be the time or the place? Thanks again...

 

[Jan001]

Yes, we disagree, but I appreciate you sharing what you think. I'm not completely sure about any of this--it's pretty speculative for me.

The logistics of the dead receiving glorified bodies *before* those who are caught up alive is not, I think, the point. It all takes place in a second of time! Paul's point, rather, seems to be that in treating those who are still living we should not neglect treating those who have already died.

We could debate whether there will be a Millennium or not, but this may not be the time or the place? Thanks again...

I think it will happen as you say. Both of these events will occur simultaneously in a twinkling or blink of an eye.

Because of the persecution of the Jews against the early Christians, the early Christian church members were eagerly awaiting Jesus' second coming. They knew that Jesus had prepared a place for them, and they wanted to go there.

John 14:1-4 “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe [a] in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.”[b]

I think Paul's point was that this event (Jesus' second coming) will be at the end of time, shortly before the judgment of the living and the formerly "dead." I think Paul wanted the people on earth to know that the people who had died before the time of Jesus' second coming would receive their glorified bodies and would come with Jesus to meet in the air the people who were still living on the earth. The people on the earth will receive their glorified bodies as they rise to meet Jesus and his glorified saints. I think you are correct in that the Christians on earth should never forget about the Christians who had died. Hebrews 12:1-3 The names of some of these in the cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12 were revealed in Hebrews 11.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.

 

[eleos1954]

I think that Satan was released in the 20th Century: World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Other Wars, Abortion Legalized, Homosexuality Legalized, Euthanasia Legalized, Unnatural "Marriage" Legalized, Atomic Bombs Used & Nuclear Bombs Invented, Changing Your Sex Legalized, Weaponizing Vaccines, etc.

Revelation 20 is very clear when satan is bound and that there is 1,000 years UNTIL the rest of the dead are reserrected.

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

 

[eleos1954]

The last judgment will begin after the people on earth rise to meet Jesus in the air after the last trumpet sounds.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

No ... all judgement has taken place when Jesus returns .... the dead in Christ are raised first (the saved) then 1,000 years later the resurrection of the lost occurs. Judgement has taken place ... but full execution of that judgement don't take place until after the 1,000 years.

Revelation 20

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

 

[Jan001]

Revelation 20 is very clear when satan is bound and that there is 1,000 years UNTIL the rest of the dead are reserrected.

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

The almighty power of Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross is what first bound Satan in the abyss.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead. After he rose, he opened the gates of heaven and then all the righteous people who were waiting in Hades ascended into into heaven. This was the first resurrection. There can be no other first resurrection. All the people who are in heaven are ruling and reigning with Jesus right now. The rest of the dead will not come to life until Jesus' second coming at the end of time.

The "a thousand years" was a symbolic number for the Jews in the apostles' lifetime. It means a long time period. It does not mean a literal one thousand years. IOW, the saints in heaven will reign with Jesus in heaven until his second coming. The second death (lake of fire) has no power over them because they are already in heaven.


Matthew 27:52-54 The tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.[a] 54 Now when the centurion and those who were keeping watch over Jesus with him witnessed the earthquake and all that was happening, they were terrified, and they said, “Truly, this man was the Son of God.”

The only other resurrection of the dead will be at the end of time:

John 5:26-29 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain [a]in his hand. 2 And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Satan was to be bound in the abyss for a long time period, but not for a literal one thousand years.

I believe Satan was released from the abyss before WWI in the 20th Century.

 

[Jan001]

No ... all judgement has taken place when Jesus returns .... the dead in Christ are raised first (the saved) then 1,000 years later the resurrection of the lost occurs. Judgement has taken place ... but full execution of that judgement don't take place until after the 1,000 years.

There is not a literal one thousand years between the resurrection of the saved and the resurrection of the lost. Both the saved and the lost are raised from the dead at the same time. This will occur when Jesus returns at the end of time. Both will then be judged at the white throne judgment, aka the sheep and goats judgment.

John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Revelation 20

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

It does not state that "the thousand years" that Satan is bound is the exact same time period as the "a thousand years" that the saints are reigning in heaven with Jesus. The Jews used symbolic numbers and they were not meant to be understood as literal numbers. To the Jew, a thousand years simply meant an indefinite number of years.

Psalm 50:10-11 For every animal of the forest is Mine,
The cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know every bird of the mountains,
And everything that moves in the field is Mine.

God owns everything. He does not own only the cattle on a literal 1000 hills. God owns all the cattle on all the hills. "A thousand" is a symbolic number meaning an indefinite number of hills.

 

[Jan001]

I think that Satan was released in the 20th Century: World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Many Other Wars, No-Fault Divorce Legalized, Contraception Legalized, Abortion Legalized, Homosexuality Legalized, Euthanasia Legalized, Unnatural "Marriage" Legalized, Atomic Bombs Used & Nuclear Bombs Invented, Changing Your Sex Legalized, Weaponizing Vaccines, etc.

Satan is now on earth and he and his followers are in an all-out war against God's family, trying to destroy it.
We are made in the image and likeness of God and therefore Satan hates us.

 

[eleos1954]

The almighty power of Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross is what first bound Satan in the abyss.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead. After he rose, he opened the gates of heaven and then all the righteous people who were waiting in Hades ascended into into heaven. This was the first resurrection. There can be no other first resurrection. All the people who are in heaven are ruling and reigning with Jesus right now. The rest of the dead will not come to life until Jesus' second coming at the end of time.

The "a thousand years" was a symbolic number for the Jews in the apostles' lifetime. It means a long time period. It does not mean a literal one thousand years. IOW, the saints in heaven will reign with Jesus in heaven until his second coming. The second death (lake of fire) has no power over them because they are already in heaven.


Matthew 27:52-54 The tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.[a] 54 Now when the centurion and those who were keeping watch over Jesus with him witnessed the earthquake and all that was happening, they were terrified, and they said, “Truly, this man was the Son of God.”

The only other resurrection of the dead will be at the end of time:

John 5:26-29 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain [a]in his hand. 2 And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Satan was to be bound in the abyss for a long time period, but not for a literal one thousand years.

I believe Satan was released from the abyss before WWI in the 20th Century.

There is simply no compelling reason in the immediate context to interpret the thousand years as anything other than literal. In fact, when the apostle John intends to express an indefinite quantity of something in Revelation 20, he does so not by naming a specific number like one thousand, but rather by using indefinite expressions like "for a short time" (v. 3) or "the number of them is like the sand of the seashore" (v. 8). John's sixfold use of the specific number one thousand--in contrast to these indefinite phrases for time and numbers--only strengthen the conclusion that the thousand years should be understood literally.

the "1,000 years" mentioned in Revelation 20 should be interpreted literally because the text repeatedly states this specific timeframe explicitly, with no indication of figurative language in regard to the number 1,000

a year according to jews

Strong's Greek: 2094. ἔτος (etos) -- year

Cultural and Historical Background: In the ancient Greco-Roman world, the concept of a year was based on the solar calendar, similar to the modern understanding. The Jewish calendar, however, was lunar-based, with adjustments to align with the solar year. The year was a significant unit of time for agricultural, religious, and civil purposes. In Jewish tradition, certain years held special significance, such as the Sabbatical year (every seventh year) and the Year of Jubilee (every fiftieth year).

 

[Jan001]

There is simply no compelling reason in the immediate context to interpret the thousand years as anything other than literal. In fact, when the apostle John intends to express an indefinite quantity of something in Revelation 20, he does so not by naming a specific number like one thousand, but rather by using indefinite expressions like "for a short time" (v. 3) or "the number of them is like the sand of the seashore" (v. 8). John's sixfold use of the specific number one thousand--in contrast to these indefinite phrases for time and numbers--only strengthen the conclusion that the thousand years should be understood literally.

the "1,000 years" mentioned in Revelation 20 should be interpreted literally because the text repeatedly states this specific timeframe explicitly, with no indication of figurative language in regard to the number 1,000

Until Jesus rose from the dead, no other human had ever ascended into heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Matthew 28:7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you to Galilee. There you will see Him; behold, I have told you.”

The first resurrection was by Jesus 2000 years ago. There cannot possibly be another first resurrection. Jesus and his saints have been ruling for over two thousand literal years so far, so we know that "a thousand years" is not a literal number.

In the Book of Revelation, "a thousand years" is not a literal number. It is a symbolic number. One hundred forty-four thousand is also not a literal number. It is a symbolic number.

 

[eleos1954]

Until Jesus rose from the dead, no other human had ever ascended into heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Matthew 28:7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you to Galilee. There you will see Him; behold, I have told you.”

The first resurrection was by Jesus 2000 years ago. There cannot possibly be another first resurrection. Jesus and his saints have been ruling for over two thousand literal years so far, so we know that "a thousand years" is not a literal number.

In the Book of Revelation, "a thousand years" is not a literal number. It is a symbolic number. One hundred forty-four thousand is also not a literal number. It is a symbolic number.

Jesus rose from the dead, no other human had ever ascended into heaven.

Doesn't appear to be so .... there was Enoch and Elijah

Hebrews 11

Berean Standard Bible
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11

As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire with horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up into heaven in a whirlwind.

No man had so passed to heaven and returned again to earth; (except Jesus)

John 3:13, Jesus states that "no one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man," meaning that only Jesus has both descended from heaven and ascended back up, signifying his unique divine nature and role as mediator between God and humanity.

and then there is Moses

Jude 9 suggests that Moses was resurrected, and the New Testament describes a dispute over Moses' body between Christ and the devil.

Moses was present with Elijah at the transfiguration

ok ... why so? As examples to show people can and will in the future enter heaven by either resurrection or by being translated (not experiencing earthly death)

 

[keras]

ok ... why so? As examples to show people can and will in the future enter heaven by either resurrection or by being translated (not experiencing earthly death)

No scripture says that anyone has or will go to and live consciously in heaven. There is no Biblical support for anyone to be taken there now or future. After all of Gods plans for mankind are over, God and heaven will come to the new earth. Rev 21:1-7

You get John 3:13 wrong, as Jesus' clear statement is that; ONLY one who comes from heaven can go back to heaven.
The belief of a 'rapture to heaven of the Church, is impossible and can never happen.

 

[eleos1954]

No scripture says that anyone has or will go to and live consciously in heaven. There is no Biblical support for anyone to be taken there now or future. After all of Gods plans for mankind are over, God and heaven will come to the new earth. Rev 21:1-7

You get John 3:13 wrong, as Jesus' clear statement is that; ONLY one who comes from heaven can go back to heaven.
The belief of a 'rapture to heaven of the Church, is impossible and can never happen.

The second coming is soon. In fact, Jesus promised His disciples that He would come again. John 14:1-3 says, “Let not your heart be troubled...In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

the Father's house is in heaven and Jesus is in heaven (where I am) He's preparing a place for us in heaven.

When Jesus returns to earth the wicked who are left alive will call for the rocks and hills to fall on them because they cannot look upon the face of Christ (Revelation 6:15-17). The wicked will be destroyed with everlasting destruction 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

On the mount of transfiguration Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah ... the scene was in heaven and Jesus was talking with them.

Matthew
There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus.

 

[Dan Perez]

The last judgment will begin after the people on earth rise to meet Jesus in the air after the last trumpet sounds.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

Just asking , where do you find the Greek word RAPTURE as I yet to find that Greek word ??

I do see the Greek word COMING //PAROUSAI in 2 Thess 2:1 !!

And i 2 thess 2:3 see the Greek word DEPARTURE // APOSTTIA and see it in Acts 21:21 !!

Also seen COMMING // PROUSIA in 1 Thess 3:13

Also seen in 1 Thess 4:17 , CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO

And in Gal 1:4 the word RESCUE // XAIREO , means to deliver .

dan p

 

[_Dave_]

In the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible the equivalent of harpazo is rapiemur, which is translated as carried away.

 

[WatchmanofGod]

Matt 24.29 Immediately after the distress of those days
‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I mean no offence to my brothers who are Dispensational and Pretribulational, because that is what I once was, as well, and that is the position of my church. But I have to advance what I believe--not what others believe.

So respectfully, I do not see an imminent Rapture here, ie belief that Christ could come "at any time." I do not see Jesus calling upon us to expect him imminently, that we should continually expect that he can come at any moment.

Rather, I see here Jesus put our gaze on a future event that will end the present age, when he will come again to gather up, through his angels, his people who have been waiting for him and living for him. We are called to look for him, and in this way curb our ungodly ways and determine to live godly lives in expectation that he will judge the whole world by his righteousness.

Our anticipation of his coming, therefore, determines how we live. And this is to be the kind of expectation we are to have, even as we await his coming to terminate the present ungodly age.

It is said that in the above reference there is no evidence of a "Rapture" event. Well, that may be because the Bible does not refer to Christ's Coming, to gather his saints, as a "Rapture." Rather, it is here referred to as a gathering by angels at the sound of a trumpet.

On the other hand, Paul describes this event as a "Rapture," not calling the event that name, but describing it as such. When we are gathered, we do not rise of our own accord, but are rather, "seized" by angels, to deliver us by the powers of heaven, and not by our own strength or ability.

So we may call it a "Rapture" if we like because that is how it is so described. But the event is called, biblically, as a gathering of saints, when the Son of Man returns from heaven with the clouds.

And where does this teaching come from? It comes from Daniel 7, where the Son of Man is said to have conferred with God his Father in heaven, receiving the mandate that will destroy the Antichrist and establish God's Kingdom on earth. In that place we are told that the Son of Man will come to earth, defeat the Little Horn, and deliver the saints from his abuses. In my view this is not an imminent event to be expected, but rather, the ultimate result of our waiting for it.

So how are we to relate this "gathering of the saints" to what Paul described as a "Rapture" in 1 Thes 4? At the time Jesus said this he was still under the Law and addressing only Israel. The "saints" he addressed at that time were Jewish believers, and not the international Church, though later this lesson can be applied to us all.

So Jesus was describing the future history of Israel, as only a remnant would be saved, and the many would be scattered across the earth in the Jewish Diaspora. Israel's national salvation would take place only after the return of the Son of Man.

And so, Jesus described this ultimate salvation of the nation addressing the Jewish saints of his time, while they were sitll under the Law. And now, we can apply this to all Christians, which is precisely what Paul did in 1 Thess 4.

When the Son of Man returns from heaven, we are gathered up to heaven by the angels of heaven. And we do so because we must do what Christ did when he said, "Do not hold me because I must return to my Father in heaven."

And so, we must, in order to be fully glorified, go to heaven to where the Son of Man is, to obtain from him our glorified bodies. In this way we may return with him in glory to establish his glorious Kingdom on the earth. And I believe this will happen immediately, in a moment of time.

So the mechanics of our leaving and returning with him is not the significant thing. What matters is that we be glorified with the Son of Man in order to enter into his rule together with him, so that the Kingdom may be established among mortal men on the earth.

I've had this dialogue a thousand times and all I have to say is let's just wait and see. God always pulled his chosen out of major judgments such as Lot and Noah. We are not subject to any judgment meant for those who have rejected the LORD.

why on earth would we whom are saved and one in the body of the LORD HIMSELF be condemned to endure such a time of judgment.

Do you understand the a!client Jewish wedding ceremony where the groom goes and gets his wife to come home to their new home that the grooms father prepared for them? If not I suggest you read about that and apply it to the rapture.

We are not subject to the tribulation because we are one body in Christ and not appointed to His anger and wrath. The tribulation is an entirely different kind of time like no other.

the hard times we are seeing now are nothing compared to God's bowls of wrath being poured up on the earth. Yes here in this time we will see hard times but not the hard times of the full force of God's judgment that is meant ONLY for all those who have rejected the free gift of salvation.


Nothing else makes sense and the fact that it's always the pretribulationalists that are always attacked makes it even more true because the truth is always attacked the most just like the Bible is attacked the most.

 

[keras]

The second coming is soon. In fact, Jesus promised His disciples that He would come again. John 14:1-3 says, “Let not your heart be troubled...In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

the Father's house is in heaven and Jesus is in heaven (where I am) He's preparing a place for us in heaven.

When Jesus returns to earth the wicked who are left alive will call for the rocks and hills to fall on them because they cannot look upon the face of Christ (Revelation 6:15-17). The wicked will be destroyed with everlasting destruction 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

On the mount of transfiguration Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah ... the scene was in heaven and Jesus was talking with them.

Matthew
There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus.

I said: No scripture says that anyone will go to live in heaven.

You have failed to provide any such scripture. In fact; all you do is make wild assumptions and wrong suppositions.

 

[keras]

We are not subject to the tribulation because we are one body in Christ and not appointed to His anger and wrath

This truth is not in any way a proof of a pre-trib rapture to heaven.
Revelation 12:14 tells us how the Lord will keep His faithful peoples safe for the 3 1/2 year = 42 month = 1260 day; time of the Great Trib.

Nothing else makes sense and the fact that it's always the pretribulationalists that are always attacked makes it even more true because the truth is always attacked the most just like the Bible is attacked the most.

What does make sense, is the many Prophesies which make clear how the Lord will protect His own, as they pass through all that must happen.
The fact of the 'rapture' theory being a majority belief of the Western Christians, simply shows how gullible and shallow they are.
Our great test is coming, 1 Peter 4:12, and many will fail it.

 

[RandyPNW]

I've had this dialogue a thousand times and all I have to say is let's just wait and see. God always pulled his chosen out of major judgments such as Lot and Noah. We are not subject to any judgment meant for those who have rejected the LORD.

I refuse to get tired of doing right. If God takes me through a subject a thousand times, that's what I'm going to do! I hope you feel the same way?

It is not true that the saints are always relieved from periods of judgment that are directed against the ungodly. If we live in their midst of those who are being judged, we will suffer some of the fall out.

In fact, Jesus was completely innocent, and yet living in our midst he suffered from sinful men--all by the will of God. And he said the same would be true for us in some respects.

Jeremiah the Prophet went through everything Israel had to go through in the time of their punishment. God did not allow him to escape, although in terms of Salvation we will, of course, escape in that way.

why on earth would we whom are saved and one in the body of the LORD HIMSELF be condemned to endure such a time of judgment.

This "time of judgment" is not much different from what the Church has experienced all through history. It is just the final period of this judgment. Christians will be here to the end. We know that because the Antichrist beheads them!

Do you understand the a!client Jewish wedding ceremony where the groom goes and gets his wife to come home to their new home that the grooms father prepared for them? If not I suggest you read about that and apply it to the rapture.

Of course I've read it. I've been reading the Bible since I was a child, and more seriously since adolescence. That was a lifetime ago.

The parable of Jewish weddings simply reflects the ultimate consummation of our spiritual marriage to Christ. We are already "betrothed," and have the deposit of the Spirit as a guarantee. But the actual wedding takes place when we become "like him," in new glorified bodies.

We are not subject to the tribulation because we are one body in Christ and not appointed to His anger and wrath. The tribulation is an entirely different kind of time like no other.

The verse that says we are not subject to God's wrath is referring to God's "eternal wrath"--not to tribulations that Jesus said we must go through in the present evil age.

the hard times we are seeing now are nothing compared to God's bowls of wrath being poured up on the earth. Yes here in this time we will see hard times but not the hard times of the full force of God's judgment that is meant ONLY for all those who have rejected the free gift of salvation.

The bowls of wrath refer not just to the outward experience of tribulation on this earth, but more, to the eternal punishment it brings to those who have chosen the Antichrist as their ruler. So Christians may experience the external tribulation of this time without coming under the eternal punishment that is in force for those punished for their unbelief.

The bowls of wrath primarily reflect the very end of the age, and not the entire period of Antichrist's reign, as is often assumed. It comes primarily at the end, when Antichrist is being defeated by Christ's Coming.

Nothing else makes sense and the fact that it's always the pretribulationalists that are always attacked makes it even more true because the truth is always attacked the most just like the Bible is attacked the most.

That's a "martyr's complex." A self-made martyr does not have to use "I'm attacked" as an excuse for his beliefs. He should trust in God's vindication, rather than claim he's immune from all questions simply because he's feeling "attacked."

No, Pretribbers are questioned because their Dispensationalist belief system contains some unbiblical ideas. Those ideas were questioned from the very beginning, when Darby 1st proposed them, precisely because they didn't appear to be entirely biblical.