The Question of Universalism and Possible Ultimate Release from Hell

[JulieB67]

, resurrection out of the lake of fire.

This is not scriptural. Again, Christ specifically calls this the second death. Christ states that the soul will be destroyed. What's the purpose of a competely new soul? There isn't one and it takes repentance and the Lord's long suffering out of the equation if that's the case. God could have made everyone automatic robots then. But he wants true change, true repentance.

This hope is celebrated in the vision of 5:13, where every human soul is worshiping God and Jesus.

Every knee will bow at Christ's return they will have no choice at that point. But it doesn't mean that all will stay there. I believe many will still follow Satan later on.

While we both agree that no one will suffer for an enternity, I don't think we'll agree on UR. Throughout the entire bible, we see that ultimately the wages of sin is death. That fits with Christ's teaching. And the second death is the soul.

 

[Berserk]

This is not scriptural. Again, ...it takes repentance and the Lord's long suffering out of the equation if that's the case. God could have made everyone automatic robots then. But he wants true change, true repentance.

Nope. Jesus preaches to "the spirits in prison," thus implying that they have a chance to repent in Hades and get saved (1 Peter 3:19; cp. 4:6).
And you keep ignoring the fact that resurrection follows death, not vice versa. The pattern is first death followed by "first resurrection (20:5)" and then ""second death" followed by second resurrection.

Every knee will bow at Christ's return they will have no choice at that point. But it doesn't mean that all will stay there. I believe many will still follow Satan later on.

You envisage an comically absurd scene where the unsaved dead are forced to acknowledge Christ as Lord and then a lever is pulled and they are sucked down to eternal torment! Worse, you forget that the universal confession of Christ as Lord in Phil. 2:9-11 is based on the call to universal salvation in Isaiah 45:22-23:
"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth...To me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear."

Throughout the entire bible, we see that ultimately the wages of sin is death. That fits with Christ's teaching. And the second death is the soul.

You need to read my case for Jesus' universalism earlier in this thread.
The NT repeatedly teaches that Jesis died for everyone, that God loves everyone, and that God wants to save everyone. You have no answer to the question (1) "Why would God allow our death to thwart His redemptive purpose?" and (2) "What would it mean for God to love the damned, if He refuses to give them a postmortem chance to repent?"

 

[JulieB67]

Nope. Jesus preaches to "the spirits in prison," thus implying that they have a chance to repent in Hades and get saved (1 Peter 3:19; cp. 4:6).

I believe that there are two sides to the gulf at this point. And that after Christ died on the cross he taught to the spirits in prison. But this has nothing to do with the final Judgement Day and the "second death".

The NT repeatedly teaches that Jesis died for everyone, that God loves everyone,

Yes, this is true but again, repentance has to come into play. That's why God is so long suffering -because he doesn't want anyone to perish.

and then a lever is pulled and they are sucked down to eternal torment!

No, I never said that. Again, I don't believe in eternal torment/ECT. I believe in Christ's teachings that the Lake of Fire is the second death. The Lake of Fire does not come into play until final judgement day. The wicked will be turned to ashes, that is what a fire does. It doesn't keep someone alive forever but there is no scripture that states someone comes back out and survives a second death. We are given two choices -to persish or receive eternal life.

You need to read my case for Jesus' universalism earlier in this thread.

I've read the entire bible and I don't see it. It's doctrines like a pretrib rapture and eternal hell that first got me into reading the bible in it's entirety for the first time over 20 years ago. I was "taught in church" those doctrines" before that. As I've said before many times, one could spend a lifetime sitting on certain pews and only come away being fed milk. And false milk at that.
I don't believe in eternal torment but I do believe what Christ taught about the death of the body and soul and the second death. If there were scriptures that pointed to someone being renewed in the Lake of Fire I would certainly believe it. But there has to be scripture to support that.

God is a loving God. He doesn't want anyone to perish but as we see in even Revelation, some simply to do not want to repent. God doesn't want to force anyone to love him. This has always been about our Father against Satan. He's long suffering and wants everyone to follow him but many will follow Satan even at the end. That's their choice and if they don't want to love him and spend an eternity with him, he will grant their wish. He's not going to torture anyone for an eternity but they will simply not exist anymore. And the rememberance of them will be no more.

the opportunity for the damned to mature and make righteous choices, once they discover their fate in Hell.

I think our Father is very fair, he's the ultimate heart knower. And I think that's why Christ was given the opportunity to preach to the spirits in prison. However things play out beyond that I do believe according to Christ's teaching that on Judgement Day the Lake of Fire is the second death. So there's no chance to make mature and righteous choices. If they haven't achieved repentance by then, they will simple cease to exist. As I said, God is the ultimate heart knower.