The question cessationists must answer.

[Thess]

I'll ignore the insults.

….is what mature people do. Great example to follow.

 

[swordsman1]

Only a complete fool would claim that. But thanks for bringing the rest of the prophecy up as it abundantly demonstrates your falsehood.
I'm sure we both agree Peter understood that the sun turning to blood would came much later, but in no way does that understanding indicate prophecy etc. would soon cease. If it were true, why doesn't scripture make that fact clear instead of leaving it open to confusion.

Thanks, saved me the trouble, especially as it further proves my point.

And you cannot arbitrarily declare when prophecy etc has ceased.
Unless declared otherwise, we have no choice but to assume the first part of Joel's prophecy continues active throughout the "last days" till the next part happens.

To claim otherwise abuses the obvious plain meaning of scripture.

Exactly, so we are agreed that part of Joel's prophecy would only be fulfilled at the end of the last days. Why then must another part, that is not treated any differently, be assumed to last throughout ALL of the last days? There is no reason that it cannot be fulfilled at the beginning of the last days, just as the sun and moon will be fulfilled at the end. After all they they are both come under the banner of "in the last days", not "throughout the last days".

 

[Francis Drake]

I'll ignore the insults.

Does that mean you will stop making them then?

You're right, I certainly don't take everything I read on this forum as truth. As for scripture, the inspired inerrant Word of God is the one source that is guaranteed to be true.

The inspired inerrant word of God may well be true, but that means absolutely nothing in this discussion as you have not been using the inerrant word of God have you?

You have just been using your own extremely biased personal opinion of what the word of God means.

Thus your posts have no more validity than any other badly flawed and abused second hand opinion and hearsay.
That's why 2000 years of bible scholarship has riven the church into endless factions and denominations, all done without the aid of the gifts.

You so called bible scholars need to get your own house in order before hurling insults at those who believe and walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Francis Drake]

Faith enables us to predict the outcome of a matter before we see it. You do not need prophecy. Scripture replaced it in far better ways.

If we don't need prophecy now, then the early church didn't need it either.

 

[Dave L]

If we don't need prophecy now, then the early church didn't need it either.

They didn't have the scriptures that replaced it.

 

[swordsman1]

Does that mean you will stop making them then?

I'll let others decide who is making the insults.

The inspired inerrant word of God may well be true, but that means absolutely nothing in this discussion as you have not been using the inerrant word of God have you?

You have just been using your own extremely biased personal opinion of what the word of God means.

Thus your posts have no more validity than any other badly flawed and abused second hand opinion and hearsay.
That's why 2000 years of bible scholarship has riven the church into endless factions and denominations, all done without the aid of the gifts.

You so called bible scholars need to get your own house in order before hurling insults at those who believe and walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

If you think my interpretation of scripture is wrong then you should be able to refute it. So far you haven't done so.

 

[Hillsage]

They didn't have the scriptures that replaced it.

And the mostly "ungifted" church of today doesn't have the Holy Spirit that inspired the scriptures. Therein lies the perpetual chasm of our debate.

1CO 14:16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?

"Amen" to the prayer tongues of "the spirit" of a man/woman.

1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole (Corinthian charismatic) church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

And the same "ungifted" "they" still say we're basically mad today with 'babble and gibberish.

 

[NBB]

I don't see why we can be 'baptized with Holy spirit and fire' but the gifts are striped down somehow, seems totally arbitrary.

I believe this is for today and the bible does not mention is only for them but to the church:

1 Corinthians 14 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Use Spiritual Gifts to Help the Church

14 Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. 2 I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. 3 But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. 4 Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

 

[Blade]

Try to remember 1st Cor 13. And what the fruits of the spirit are? That the sweet sweet Holy Spirit thats ALL over this world. The 12... if they had not waited on God as Jesus told them to.. ALL would still be saved.. just lacking something. I still would NEVER say.. those that do not believe in the gifts do not have the holy Spirit ...Holy Jesus.. not my kids. NOT going to touch that. But look at them(the 12) AFTER the holy Spirit fell on them.

If people read the word and do not believe Him.. then anything I say here ... will not help. If you dont believe Him.. you never will anyone. I believe God told Christ everything. Everything Christ said was the Father talking. I believe John 3:16-17. I believe Luke.. that said.. how much more will your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask. So.. I asked.. and exactly.. EXACTLY as it happen in the word is how it happen to me. I can not think of how this life would be .. if I had never asked.. look at the 12 before and after they waited.. they were ALL saved when Jesus went up in the clouds. But MAN something happen after they waited.. as Jesus prayed the Father for what to be sent on them?

 

[Billy Evmur]

Jesus is Lord when love determines our choices. Plus; “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

…by the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[Billy Evmur]

If you limit yourself to what I say, the charismatic gifts expired with the Apostles. They verified the Apostles' authority. Just as miracles verified Moses' authority. But God still heals through the prayer of faith. And all believers have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And we all have ministerial gifts.

I don't think so bro...if it were so the world would be turned upside down.

 

[Billy Evmur]

I'm saying prophecy, tongues and word of knowledge expired with the apostles. God directs our steps internally and externally.

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

… by gift.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Jesus is Lord when love determines our choices. Plus; “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

by gift

 

[Billy Evmur]

No, the Charismatic Gifts expired with the apostles. The scriptures do a far better job than those gifts. But we all are baptized in the Holy Spirit and have ministerial gifts.

That's a little mealy, it's the scriptures which exhort us to covet the gifts, nonsense to on one hand say we are all baptized in the Holy Ghost and having ministerial gifts and argue against it at the same time.

 

[Billy Evmur]

But you move beyond scripture when you assume that.

Cornelius

 

[Billy Evmur]

Jesus is Lord when love determines our choices. Plus; “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

By the gift of the Holy Ghost...or not depending on faith.

 

[Dave L]

By the gift of the Holy Ghost...or not depending on faith.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

Cornelius

What about Cornelius?

 

[Dave L]

That's a little mealy, it's the scriptures which exhort us to covet the gifts, nonsense to on one hand say we are all baptized in the Holy Ghost and having ministerial gifts and argue against it at the same time.

But the gifts came only in the two outpourings or through the hands of an apostle, now ended. You add to scripture to claim more than this.

 

[Dave L]

I don't think so bro...if it were so the world would be turned upside down.

You are discrediting Christ and the church.