The question cessationists must answer.

[YeshuaFan]

ie. The last days, which we are still in.

The sign gifts were given to His Apostles to confirm that Jesus was Lord, and that Gospel was true and from God. We have the scriptures now in full, and the Holy Spirit just needs those to accomplish His work here!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Haha, as I said, you theologians cannot make your own minds up about what the bible says, so get your own house in order before tossing criticism at the prophetic ministry.

There is no so called prophetic ministry though, as the Bible has all of the prophecy God intended for us to have!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I think you are conflating two things, both called prophecy.

I don't think Dave is saying that God leaves us directionless but for Scripture; he admits to the indwelling and eye-opening and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I also think you will admit that there is danger in the acceptance of any and all "signs" as from God. Aaron wasn't the only one whose rod turned into a snake.

God is not speaking anything new as in revelations to us today, nor in prophecy, for in the scriptures we have the sure and infallible word of the Lord unto us now!
Those who claim to be Prophets need to be 100 % accurate, but none of them are....

 

[Strong in Him]

If you add to scripture, you are in serious error.

I'm not adding to Scripture.
The church is still here. God is alive and he is still working today.
Ephesians 4:11-12 says that the Spirit gives gifts so that the body of Christ may be built up. Are you saying that the church doesn't need to be built up today? When did the Holy Spirit decide to stop giving gifts? Obviously he didn't because many many Christians receive, and have received them.

If you control yourself, and go only by what scripture says, you are on safe footing.

Well like I said then, where does Scripture say that you may use a computer, drive a car, fly in a plane?
Where does Scripture say that only Scripture is allowed and God will not work in NY OTHER WAY?

Like I also said, which you haven't answered; in the OT they had Scripture, prophecy and miracles. They also had the Holy Spirit.
Why would God's people today have less than they had in the OT before Jesus even came? Jesus said that he would be with us always, that the Spirit would take from him and give to us and that we would do greater things than he did. Why do you say that this results in fewer blessings and demonstrations of God's presence and power?

 

[Strong in Him]

If you limit yourself to what I say, the charismatic gifts expired with the Apostles. They verified the Apostles' authority. Just as miracles verified Moses' authority. But God still heals through the prayer of faith. And all believers have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And we all have ministerial gifts.

Paul says that we have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3, and that we are heirs of God, Romans 8:17.
I don't want to place any limits on God and what he has for me. If you want to limit yourself, you're the only one who's missing out.
God won't stop giving gifts of prophecy and the ability to speak in tongues just because you don't believe. He may not give them to you, but other Christians are being hugely blessed by them.

 

[Dave L]

Paul says that we have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3, and that we are heirs of God, Romans 8:17.
I don't want to place any limits on God and what he has for me. If you want to limit yourself, you're the only one who's missing out.
God won't stop giving gifts of prophecy and the ability to speak in tongues just because you don't believe. He may not give them to you, but other Christians are being hugely blessed by them.

You are in spiritual danger if you chase after knowledge not provided by scripture. The challenge is, don't believe anything that doesn't have solid scriptural support.

 

[Dave L]

I'm not adding to Scripture.
The church is still here. God is alive and he is still working today.
Ephesians 4:11-12 says that the Spirit gives gifts so that the body of Christ may be built up. Are you saying that the church doesn't need to be built up today? When did the Holy Spirit decide to stop giving gifts? Obviously he didn't because many many Christians receive, and have received them.



Well like I said then, where does Scripture say that you may use a computer, drive a car, fly in a plane?
Where does Scripture say that only Scripture is allowed and God will not work in NY OTHER WAY?

Like I also said, which you haven't answered; in the OT they had Scripture, prophecy and miracles. They also had the Holy Spirit.
Why would God's people today have less than they had in the OT before Jesus even came? Jesus said that he would be with us always, that the Spirit would take from him and give to us and that we would do greater things than he did. Why do you say that this results in fewer blessings and demonstrations of God's presence and power?

You do not know what scripture teaches in these matters and are blindly ignoring it. You need to study for yourself and prove what you believe comes from scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

You are in spiritual danger if you chase after knowledge not provided by scripture. The challenge is, don't believe anything that doesn't have solid scriptural support.

Well you stop using your computer then, as neither it, nor these forums, have solid Scriptural support, and I'll think about it.

You still haven't answered my questions, far less shown solid Scriptural support for your position.

 

[Dave L]

Well you stop using your computer then, as neither it, nor these forums, have solid Scriptural support, and I'll think about it.

You still haven't answered my questions, far less shown solid Scriptural support for your position.

If you cannot prove your position from scripture, it is nothing more than idle speculation. Faith comes from hearing the Word. Jesus said his words are Spirit and life. He abolished the office of the prophet when they finished producing the New Testament scriptures.

 

[Francis Drake]

But you move beyond scripture when you assume that.

No Dave, it is you who is moving beyond scripture when you rejected what RDKirk correctly said:- "Nothing says that the laying of hands is necessary."

The Holy Spirit fell on people sometimes with, and sometimes without, the laying on of hands. The same is true today.

Acts10v44Of Peter still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word. 45And the believers from the circumcision, as many as had come with Peter, were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit has been poured out even upon the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.

And again, with no laying on of hands.
Acts3v31And they having prayed, the place in which they were assembled was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and were speaking the word of God with boldness.

 

[Dave L]

No Dave, it is you who is moving beyond scripture when you rejected what RDKirk correctly said:- "Nothing says that the laying of hands is necessary."

The Holy Spirit fell on people sometimes with, and sometimes without, the laying on of hands. The same is true today.

Acts10v44Of Peter still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word. 45And the believers from the circumcision, as many as had come with Peter, were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit has been poured out even upon the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.

And again, with no laying on of hands.
Acts3v31And they having prayed, the place in which they were assembled was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and were speaking the word of God with boldness.

You need to prove the gifts came in other ways beyond the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. You cannot have faith in your position because faith comes by hearing the word.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you cannot prove your position from scripture, it is nothing more than idle speculation. Faith comes from hearing the Word. Jesus said his words are Spirit and life. He abolished the office of the prophet when they finished producing the New Testament scriptures.

You can't answer simple questions nor give Scripture which proves your position, so there's no point continuing the discussion.

Carry on missing out on the blessings and gifts that God gives. It's between you and him; doesn't affect my life and service.

 

[Dave L]

You can't answer simple questions nor give Scripture which proves your position, so there's no point continuing the discussion.

Carry on missing out on the blessings and gifts that God gives. It's between you and him; doesn't affect my life and service.

You are beyond the support of scripture. This opens you for any deception imaginable.

 

[Strong in Him]

You are beyond the support of scripture. This opens you for any deception imaginable.

You can believe that if you like.

 

[Francis Drake]

The sign gifts were given to His Apostles to confirm that Jesus was Lord, and that Gospel was true and from God.

And in your imagination, you decide that we don't need the same gifts today to do the same job? No wonder the church is so weak and ineffectual when people like you disembowel what the Lord taught.

We have the scriptures now in full, and the Holy Spirit just needs those to accomplish His work here!

Accomplish his work, whilst rejecting the tools he promised? All you end up producing is wood hay and stubble.
Given that the last days have not yet passed, the scripture quoted by Peter is still perfectly valid for today.
Acts2v17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

In denying the above, the gifts so described, you are rejecting the Holy Spirit.

 

[Francis Drake]

There is no so called prophetic ministry though, as the Bible has all of the prophecy God intended for us to have!

There goes a proud blind man, denying the existence of sight, and a proud deaf man denying the existence of sound.

Just don't expect us to follow you as you stumbling around in the dark.

 

[Dave L]

You can believe that if you like.

I've seen quite a bit of this end in disaster.

 

[Strong in Him]

I've seen quite a bit of this end in disaster.

Quite a bit of what?

 

[Dave L]

Quite a bit of what?

If you do not know what scripture says, you can easily be deceived by those claiming special revelation, and mimicking the charismatic gifts.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you do not know what scripture says, you can easily be deceived by those claiming special revelation, and mimicking the charismatic gifts.

I've been a Christian for over 40 years, read, study/studied and preach the Bible. I have more than a good idea of what it says.