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Lukes gospel says we must hate our mother and father. Luke's account of the sermon on the mount is watered down. I never cared for how Luke's gospel was put together. To answer your question, i dont know, baptism of the Spirit?If I ask a question it is because it does matter. Just because it doesn't matter to you makes me feel you just fear something you believe being brought to the light IMO. As I said before, I just waste my time with you. I'd do better trying to nail snot to a fence post than trying to get you to nail down BIBLICALLY what you believe. byebye again
It's not disputed in my Bible!
Have you heard about the MANY Christians whose lives have been shippwreaked in their faith due to buying into health and wealth and divine health promised if you just had enough faith, visualized and confessed the right words, and yet have family members, friends, and even themselves die, get real sick, lose jobs etc? And feel guilty because if they just had enough faith?Anybody ever hear about the "fantasy" of a fundamental Baptist thinking their church isn't divisive?
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
Hatred there would be in the sense that love and devotion to Jesus takes precedence even over family members, as cannot mean sheer hatred, as God commands us to honor Mother and Father!Lukes gospel says we must hate our mother and father. Luke's account of the sermon on the mount is watered down. I never cared for how Luke's gospel was put together. To answer your question, i dont know, baptism of the Spirit?
many scholars believe that there was a problem for some in just how abruptly Mark's Gospel originally ended, and scribes added into the end commentary on what they heard and saw the Apostles did for sake of Christ!You quoted from the Holman bible. In your bible you will notice the whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Other manuscripts omit bracketed text".
The most popular and respected bibles versions have the following:
- NASB Whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Later manuscripts add vv 9-20"
- ESV Whole section place in square brackets with the footnote "Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20"
- NIV Whole section is placed in italics below a dividing line with the heading "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20."
- RSV Has the following footnote "Mark 16:20 Some of the most ancient authorities bring the book to a close at the end of verse 8. One authority concludes the book by adding after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Other authorities include the preceding passage and continue with verses 9–20. In most authorities verses 9–20 follow immediately after verse 8; a few authorities insert additional material after verse 14"
But what matters is not whether it appears in your bible, but whether it was written by Mark or by someone else at a later date. The overwhelming consensus among bible scholars is that it is not Mark. The ancient Greek manuscripts in fact have 5 different endings of Mark!
But even if you assume that passage was written by Mark, the prophecy doesn't say believers would continue have those abilities throughout all time. In fact two of the four abilities are conspicuous by their absence today - no doubt because being immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison are considerably harder to counterfeit than the other two!
You quoted from the Holman bible. In your bible you will notice the whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Other manuscripts omit bracketed text".
The most popular and respected bibles versions have the following:
- NASB Whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Later manuscripts add vv 9-20"
- ESV Whole section place in square brackets with the footnote "Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20"
- NIV Whole section is placed in italics below a dividing line with the heading "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20."
- RSV Has the following footnote "Mark 16:20 Some of the most ancient authorities bring the book to a close at the end of verse 8. One authority concludes the book by adding after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Other authorities include the preceding passage and continue with verses 9–20. In most authorities verses 9–20 follow immediately after verse 8; a few authorities insert additional material after verse 14"
But what matters is not whether it appears in your bible, but whether it was written by Mark or by someone else at a later date. The overwhelming consensus among bible scholars is that it is not Mark. The ancient Greek manuscripts in fact have 5 different endings of Mark!
But even if you assume that passage was written by Mark, the prophecy doesn't say believers would continue have those abilities throughout all time. In fact two of the four abilities are conspicuous by their absence today - no doubt because being immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison are considerably harder to counterfeit than the other two!
I appreciate your "don't know" honesty W2L. So let me just start by saying I agree with the division in a family over this "baptism" which Jesus is talking about in Luke. And I don't consider it as 'watered down'. Why? Because I experienced it myself. I was born and raised as a Catholic....not as a Christian. And when I got radically saved and came home to tell my family that they weren't saved either...it didn't fly so well....other than the sparks of a sword fight, that is. I learned later that mom really was saved (during her 12 year old confirmation class, by a nun), even though she never received the baptism from the Holy Spirit until the day she died.Lukes gospel says we must hate our mother and father. Luke's account of the sermon on the mount is watered down. I never cared for how Luke's gospel was put together. To answer your question, i dont know, baptism of the Spirit?
I appreciate your "don't know" honesty W2L. So let me just start by saying I agree with the division in a family over this "baptism" which Jesus is talking about in Luke. And I don't consider it as 'watered down'. Why? Because I experienced it myself. I was born and raised as a Catholic....not as a Christian. And when I got radically saved and came home to tell my family that they weren't saved either...it didn't fly so well....other than the sparks of a sword fight, that is. I learned later that mom really was saved (during her 12 year old confirmation class, by a nun), even though she never received the baptism from the Holy Spirit until the day she died.
Now, as to you thinking Luke is speaking of the 'baptism of the Spirit', look at the tense of this baptism which Jesus is talking about. This baptism is in His FUTURE not in His PAST.
LUK 12:50 I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!
Jesus was water baptized and then Spirit baptized in Chapter 3, so neither can be 'the baptism' which Jesus was stressing with....the 'one baptism' which divides saved from unsaved...a point which we both agree upon. This is the baptism of death on the cross which Jesus was wrestling with here, and also in the Garden at Gethsemane. And it is the 'death of Jesus' which is the ONLY BAPTISM that gives all Christians the very same 'born again' and saved holy spirit. And it is this spirit in us, which is just the same as the spirit which was in Jesus when he was born of Mary. And that spirit is the holy spirit of Christ. Not the Holy Spirit of God. That is what makes us ALL one spirit as the body of Christ.
1CO 6:17 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
Notice that the 'inconsistent' translators correctly did not capitalize spirit here, because it is the spirit of Christ in us which is the new creation of our unsaved spirit.
Notice also that Eph 4 says nothing about the unity of the Church or of Doctrine. Neither does it say that we have to OBTAIN the unity of the spirit, but MAINTAIN it.
EPH 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
The biggest problem with understanding this verse in the way I"m sharing is this. As I've shared many time here on CF translators capitalized spirit or holy spirit 52 times when it never should have been. Capitalization is not determined in the Greek grammatically like English. It is added according to the 'theology' and imagination of those translating. And, back to the point of this thread, those early translators never had the baptism of the Spirit to even be able to correctly relate to correct theology confirmed with experience. The spirit of Christ in us all is the only spirit that makes all of us the many membered body of Christ.
That is not a disputed fact. It certainly isn't water baptism because Paul himself wished he'd never water baptized anyone, so how could that be the baptism for "unity of the spirit" (with capitalization corrected) which makes the body of Christ ONE. And not just ONE but also divided from the unsaved spirit of those in the world.
What are you saying here?Notice also that Eph 4 says nothing about the unity of the Church or of Doctrine. Neither does it say that we have to OBTAIN the unity of the spirit, but MAINTAIN it.
I hear lies all the time. Sounds like you have documented evidence on just how bad this problem is. SHOW IT or shut up. I'm tiring of all the OPINIONS here with nothing to prove you haven't got just as much garbage in your denomination. YOUR side has garbage and our side has garbage. Deal with yours so you can clearly see ours. FYI I am not a WOF man, or a 'name it an claim it', 'blab it and nab it' believer either. But I have studied them and ate the grapes of those 'bar ditch' teachers and teachings. But I'm also Spirit led enough to not have LOST MY SHIRT.Have you heard about the MANY Christians whose lives have been shippwreaked in their faith due to buying into health and wealth and divine health promised if you just had enough faith, visualized and confessed the right words, and yet have family members, friends, and even themselves die, get real sick, lose jobs etc? And feel guilty because if they just had enough faith?
I hear lies all the time. Sounds like you have documented evidence on just how bad this problem is. SHOW IT or shut up. I'm tiring of all the OPINIONS here with nothing to prove you haven't got just as much garbage in your denomination. YOUR side has garbage and our side has garbage. Deal with yours so you can clearly see ours.
You quoted from the Holman bible. In your bible you will notice the whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Other manuscripts omit bracketed text".
The most popular and respected bibles versions have the following:
- NASB Whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Later manuscripts add vv 9-20"
- ESV Whole section place in square brackets with the footnote "Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20"
- NIV Whole section is placed in italics below a dividing line with the heading "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20."
- RSV Has the following footnote "Mark 16:20 Some of the most ancient authorities bring the book to a close at the end of verse 8. One authority concludes the book by adding after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Other authorities include the preceding passage and continue with verses 9–20. In most authorities verses 9–20 follow immediately after verse 8; a few authorities insert additional material after verse 14"
But what matters is not whether it appears in your bible, but whether it was written by Mark or by someone else at a later date. The overwhelming consensus among bible scholars is that it is not Mark. The ancient Greek manuscripts in fact have 5 different endings of Mark!
But even if you assume that passage was written by Mark, the prophecy doesn't say believers would continue have those abilities throughout all time. In fact two of the four abilities are conspicuous by their absence today - no doubt because being immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison are considerably harder to counterfeit than the other two!
That's the point, only an apostle can clear up the errors that denominations are teaching. But there are no apostles left. No not one.
Yeah, only an apostle can, but Jesus can't???That's the point, only an apostle can clear up the errors that denominations are teaching. But there are no apostles left. No not one.
THats why we dont follow the traditional church fathers. We follow the lord Jesus..not rome .Cessationism has been the predominant position of the church since the time of the church fathers, immediately after the apostolic age. The church wasn't split on the issue of cessationism until the Pentecostal/charismatic movement started at the beginning of the 20th century and wrongly claimed that the 'sign gifts' had been restored. Since then it has split the church right down the middle. In my area there have been a number of churches that have literally been torn apart thanks to infiltration by the charismatic movement.
But what about the apostles? Didnt God send them to teach us? What happened? Why all the division?
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