The question cessationists must answer.

[Billy Evmur]

Nope, but they are the ones filled with at times really bad doctrine and theology!

The evangelicals are also filled with awful doctrines...mebbe YOU got some, for Arminians cannot be in agreement with Sovereign Grace believers. Some believe salvation is losable, some believe you've got to earn it., some believe water baptism is wrong, only for Jews

I would soon run out of space...

Those root doctrines are the cause of bad teachings and practice.

You don't notice it in formal churches but when you are dealing in miracles it becomes strikingly apparent.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Exactly. A warning from Jesus and again from Paul of all the counterfeits in the last days.

And isn’t it particularly interesting that they mention miracles and spiritual gifts (not from Christ) that they use to deceive!

You never consider that YOU might be deceived or a deceiver in saying that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ceased....that never occurs to you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You never consider that YOU might be deceived or a deceiver in saying that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ceased....that never occurs to you.

In the end, God is not going to judge a cessationist harshly. Although many don’t want to admit it, there is significant scripture against it plus theirs a lot of strangeness out there.

However those who say they have the Holy Spirit, if it’s another spirit, I think God will have a big problem with that.

So I think we are safe. Those who believe like you do. Who knows. Probably depends on what kind of spirit you got.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You never consider that YOU might be deceived or a deceiver in saying that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ceased....that never occurs to you.

Nope. I think it will be more about how much we love God, obeyed His commands and loved others.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

In the end, God is not going to judge a cessationist harshly. Although many don’t want to admit it, there is significant scripture against it plus theirs a lot of strangeness out there.

However those who say they have the Holy Spirit, if it’s another spirit, I think God will have a big problem with that.

So I think we are safe. Those who believe like you do. Who knows. Probably depends on what kind of spirit you got.

But what if the cessasionists are the lukewarm Christians the Bible warns us about? What if they get to heaven and Jesus is like, "Nah, sorry, you never accepted my gift and you fought those who chose to accept it and even said they weren't my children and you never let Me take control of a service. Nope, away with you. I don't know who you've been worshipping but it certainly wasn't me."


(Disclaimer: Totally playing Devil's advocate here. I do not believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by the speaking of tongues is a determining factor in one's salvation at all. Whether you choose to believe it or not has no bearing in the salvation or belief in Jesus by one's self.)

 

[ToBeLoved]

But what if the cessasionists are the lukewarm Christians the Bible warns us about? What if they get to heaven and Jesus is like, "Nah, sorry, you never accepted my gift and you fought those who chose to accept it and even said they weren't my children and you never let Me take control of a service. Nope, away with you. I don't know who you've been worshipping but it certainly wasn't me."


(Disclaimer: Totally playing Devil's advocate here. I do not believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by the speaking of tongues is a determining factor in one's salvation at all. Whether you choose to believe it or not has no bearing in the salvation or belief in Jesus by one's self.)

A lukewarm Christian will have to account for themselves cessationist or not.

Second, salvation is the gift and I would imagine that if most cessationist had been given a spiritual gift like tongues, they wouldn’t be a cessationist.

Since the Holy Spirit chooses who has gifts, how could God fault someone who wasn’t given a gift by Him.

A cessationist, does not hate a brother or sister who has a gift or says they have one.

The cessationist is judged by people who say they have spiritual gifts much more. So I think we are ok.

 

[Francis Drake]

No one in their right mind would “condemn” anything God chooses to give us.

This is what I said, which is about Cessationists condemning us as continuationists.
"You have spent your whole time on this thread condemning those who have the gifts of the Holy Spirit."

But as you bring it up, Cessationists on this thread have been constantly condemning the gifts of the Spirit today.

Maybe you should change your wording to mean the belief that certain gifts have ceased.

Why would I change my wording when I am adamant that the gifts have not ceased.
My post was an accurate statement of their strongly held position, and I am not responsible for their incessant profession of unbelief.

That is MUCH less argumentative and accusatory.

The whole of this thread has been argumentative and accusatory against those who believe in the gifts today.

We believers in the gifts have testified of miracles and healings and prophecies in our midst.
I testified of how the Lord warned me in advance to save my life in a car crash
I testified how the Lord had told me which street across town to find my wife's stolen car.
I testified how the Lord had given an accurate prophecy through my 4 year old son about us buying a house.
I testified about the Lord giving me visions to repair machinery at work.
I testified about the Lord giving dreams to resolve engineering problems that the specialists couldn't fix.
We have presented many testimonies of the gifts in use today, all are met with derision mockery and accusations of lies fake fraud etc. from Cessationists.
We have presented many scriptures to demonstrate the veracity of the gifts today, but the narrative of the cessationists is to discount any scripture but their own pet verses.

I am sorry if my responses offend you, but maybe you should step back and look at both sides equally.

 

[Alithis]

Because we should believe people who could be anyone anonymously on the Internet hiding behind a keyboard.

Now who is gullible

Think that through..
The new testament is writings about people who youve never met and cant meet here on earth..
Just testimonies .
Do you consider yourself gullible for believing thier testimonies?

Do you actually believe thier testimony?

 

[Francis Drake]

In the end, God is not going to judge a cessationist harshly.

Wow! If only we all had such righteousness.

However those who say they have the Holy Spirit, if it’s another spirit, I think God will have a big problem with that.

You and your friends claim that Christians cannot have demons, yet accuse us of having another spirit, in other words a demon!
That is a direct accusation that believers in the gifts of the Holy Spirit today are not Christians!
And you were the one who lectured me on argumentative and accusatory posts. Lol

So I think we are safe. Those who believe like you do. Who knows. Probably depends on what kind of spirit you got.

Again, we gifts believers are demonised, the same accusation the Pharisees made against Jesus.
And you hypocritically accuse me of bad posts!

 

[Alithis]

Mueller had the gift of faith, the special one bestowed by God for special task assigned to the believer by God, and we have what we ask of God IF in His will for us to have it, and many here seem to be assuming that God always wants us to have health and wealth and healing and prosperity!

So God is bad and does evil things to his redeemed?
My God doesnt ... Yours is very forign to me.

As i already told you ..we live as George muller did.
Trusting God for all our needs .. We have no job save the Gospel . Matthew ch 6 is stil the word of God.
Every person has faith ...
Well obviously not every person .
You should then repent and start believing what the lord JESUS said.

 

[Francis Drake]

Nope. I think it will be more about how much we love God, obeyed His commands and loved others.

As Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commands". That means not rewriting them to suit a narrative that prevents him working among the saints today.
And neither is love to others the special domain of Cessationists.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Nope. I think it will be more about how much we love God, obeyed His commands and loved others.

I was not speaking about salvation, I am sure you are saved. But so were the Galatians...but they were deceived.

Take the two opinions Salvation can be lost vs salvation cannot be lost, a big divide, one is correct one not so much. Christians are on each side of the debate.

 

[Billy Evmur]

In the end, God is not going to judge a cessationist harshly. Although many don’t want to admit it, there is significant scripture against it plus theirs a lot of strangeness out there.

However those who say they have the Holy Spirit, if it’s another spirit, I think God will have a big problem with that.

So I think we are safe. Those who believe like you do. Who knows. Probably depends on what kind of spirit you got.

I don't think God will judge harshly, however I do believe there are harsh consequences attached to disbelief...I hear the cries of the wounded and the floundering ones all around.

There is also a BIG problem if it IS the Holy Spirit and you are saying it is another spirit.

Christians have no excuse really for not recognizing the Holy Spirit.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Think that through..
The new testament is writings about people who youve never met and cant meet here on earth..
Just testimonies .
Do you consider yourself gullible for believing thier testimonies?

Do you actually believe thier testimony?

I think people posting on CF is way different from what is written in the Bible.

If you can’t see that I’m sure nothing I say will convince you.

Also, I don’t say their testimonies are not true. I just don’t hold them as highly as from someone I know in real life and I think that’s sensible.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't think God will judge harshly, however I do believe there are harsh consequences attached to disbelief...I hear the cries of the wounded and the floundering ones all around.

There is also a BIG problem if it IS the Holy Spirit and you are saying it is another spirit.

Christians have no excuse really for not recognizing the Holy Spirit.

That’s the problem with continuists, they like to attach spiritual gifts to faith, but someone can have great faith and believe some spiritual gifts have ceased.

The Bible talks about those who have not seen the Lord or His miracles, yet they still believe. How the faith of those people are stronger because they have not seen.

I believe the Holy Spirit and God can do anything He likes. It is not a lack of belief in what God is able to do if He likes. The issue is whether God is still doing it or not.

So instead of saying someone has lack of belief maybe you should realize this is theological and not personal.

Continuists always attack the person. It shows desperation in their theological position that they need to attack the poster, which then brings into question their relationship with the Holy Spirit. It’s not the best look.

 

[Francis Drake]

The indwelling Holy Spirit, permanently indwelling a believer did not even happen until Pentecost in Acts. AFTER Jesus death

King David was way before Pentecost, and just like today, the Holy Spirit seems a pretty permanent fixture in his life.
Psalm139v7Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
9If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,

Since this is true, Jesus could not be referring to anyone with the indwelling Holy Spirit because that didn’t even happen yet.

Nonsense. You are just regurgitating tradition.
Proverbs1v23
"Turn to my reproof, Behold, I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
The desire of the Lord has always been to live in and through man. The desire of man has always been to remain independent of God.
That's why David was known as a man after God's heart.

So, IMHO, your theology is very off using verses before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit even happened as proof text.

Again nonsense as the scriptures prove again and again. The Holy Spirit has always been available to those who wanted his presence.
Until you differentiate between being born again by the Spirit, and the infilling power of the Holy Spirit, you will always be confused.

Very backward. I am amazed that you would consider the gospels proof text for something that occurred after the gospels.

I am amazed at your obvious distain for taking the scriptures as a whole, rather than selectively excluding the bits that disprove cessationism.

 

[Francis Drake]

Jesus death was at a point in time for us as humans and separates the Old Covenant from the New Covenant.
God is not held to time or within boundaries of time, but we humans are.

Exactly. God dwells outside of time, so Calvary is as applicable then as now.

Heb11v24By faith Moses, having become grown, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25having chosen to suffer affliction with the people of God, rather than to have the fleeting enjoyment of sin, 26having esteemed the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking toward the reward.
If Moses was alive to Christ in Egypt, then you cannot deny the efficacy of Christ's blood at the original Passover, or at other OT sacrifices.

If Jesus blood was active within the Old Covenant times, why did God have the Levitical priesthood making animal sacrifices for temporary atonement over and over and over?

Because, just like communion wine, OT sacrificial blood was a mere token of a far more powerful reality.

 

[Francis Drake]

It is very clear in scripture that Jesus was both 100% God and 100% man. Somehow you are limiting Jesus’ God part to only part of His life.

Despite him being God and the Son of God, there is no record of Jesus doing any miracles etc till he was filled with the Holy Spirit, otherwise his mission as the second Adam would have been compromised! He had to walk as a man!
His father Joseph had died, if Jesus was moving in his own personal divinity, why didn't he heal his dad?
Every healing, miracle or deliverance Jesus did, was because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, not because of his own personal divinity, and that is how the gospels show it to be.
Luke4v14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report concerning Him went out into all the surrounding region. 15And He was teaching in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

I just don’t add to God’s Word.

You have been doing that all the time.

 

[Francis Drake]

I think you need to go have a long talk with God and tell Him what to do.
Railing and accusations against the brethren is not edifying.

Do you find such perfection easy to carry?

 

[Billy Evmur]

That’s the problem with continuists, they like to attach spiritual gifts to faith, but someone can have great faith and believe some spiritual gifts have ceased.

The Bible talks about those who have not seen the Lord or His miracles, yet they still believe. How the faith of those people are stronger because they have not seen.

I believe the Holy Spirit and God can do anything He likes. It is not a lack of belief in what God is able to do if He likes. The issue is whether God is still doing it or not.

So instead of saying someone has lack of belief maybe you should realize this is theological and not personal.

Continuists always attack the person. It shows desperation in their theological position that they need to attack the poster, which then brings into question their relationship with the Holy Spirit. It’s not the best look.

You are in the air...to believe in Christ...to do what? The only solid ground for faith is God's word. That is what we believe and you don't [not all of it] you only believe what you personally have seen or experienced. Because you have not personally seen or experienced the power and demonstration you don't believe it.

Actually Peter said they had not seen Him, they certainly did see the miracles and manifestation.

What a laugh...only those who believe in the gifts make it personal you say.

You DON'T believe that's just a statement of fact...you believe in half the bible but dismiss the other half.