THE QUESTION ABOUT COVENANT ISRAEL

[ralliann]

So when Paul said Israel is currently blind, and you believe the Body of Christ is Israel, is the Body of Christ blind as well NOW?

Paul is speaking concerning the promise to Israel as the children of Jacob as written

Abrahamic blessing upon Jacob.....Royal/priests....Annointed ones
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

Two covenants made with Abraham
Ge 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Of which the women are an allegory......
Ge 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

To whom does God turn away ungodliness? Jacob
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

What is the name change?
Ge 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
The above is all Israel

Ge 28:4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.
Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The land, received through blessing is land which they inherit after this world and this life.......The heavenly kingdom. See the book of Hebrews "these all died in faith" etc.
The Church is the Israel of God.....

 

[Davy]

So when Paul said Israel is currently blind, and you believe the Body of Christ is Israel, is the Body of Christ blind as well NOW?

You really haven't paid attention to my posts, or to Paul in Romans 11, have you?

Paul said that "blindness in part" is happened to Israel, his speaking about his brethren the Jews. Do you not understand the difference between those Jews he spoke of, and that remnant according to the election of grace which God preserved of Israel in the first part of Romans 11?

 

[Clare73]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?
Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?

A remnant was not hardened.

2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?

Full number of the Gentile remnant.

3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

IF they do no persist in unbelief. (Romans 11:23)

And in the same way God saves the Gentiles, in a remnant.

Since the cross, all mankind is on the same footing--salvation is by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the
remission of one's sin and right standing (position) with God's justice; i.e., not guilty, sanctified (positionally).

 

[ralliann]

A remnant was not hardened.

Full number of the Gentile remnant

In the same way God saves the Gentiles, in a remnant.

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

[/QUOTE]
Paul tells us how all Israel is saved.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Guojing]

-

 

[Clare73]

3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

IF they do no persist in unbelief. (Romans 11:23)
And in the same way God saves the Gentiles, in a remnant.
Since the cross, all mankind is on the same footing--salvation is by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing (position) with God's justice; i.e., not guilty, sanctified (positionally).

Paul tells us how all Israel is saved.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

With Paul "all" doesn't always mean everyone, as in Romans 5:18, Romans 11:32; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Colossians 1:20,
but sometimes means "all" in the group of believers.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?
2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?
3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

Dear William,

I'll spend a few minutes and answer your questions. Without a full understanding of God's Word, my answers will seem confusing at best. But none the less, I believe my answers are the truth of God.

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?

I read some of the answers to this question and a few people are on the right track but they did not expand on why there is a partial hardening.

God caused the partial hardening of Israel's heart for two primary reasons:

1Cor 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory...

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Reason #1: If God had not hardened and blinded Israel's heart, they would not have "crucified the Lord of glory" and mankind would not have a Savior.

Scripture is written in Christ's spiritual language so that it conceals the truth of God from all but those whom Christ chooses to reveal it.

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and ANOTHER TONGUE will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

In order to understand Christ's spiritual language, Christ MUST come to us individually and heal our spiritual blindness. This healing happens when Christ comes to us with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Spirit). It is the same event that happened to the Apostles in the upper room on the Day of Pentecost and the same event Paul experienced after being in Damascus for three days in which he was blind and in bed.

This is why Christ must heal our blindness:

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Because mankind is born spiritually blind and cannot understand God, it is necessary for Christ to come to us and heal our blindness. In this age, Christ is ONLY coming to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. They are the Elect, the First-Fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. Christ is not saving anyone else at this time. For this reason, there was only a partial hardening of the heart of Israel. It was for the sake of Israel's Elect (Reason #2).

I'll expand on this in my answers to questions 2 and 3.

2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?
3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

I will answer both questions in this response. This answer is not as straight forward as my answer to question #1. It takes a fuller understanding of God's Word. Because of this requirement, I will go into more detail in my response so please bear with me.

Christ is mankind's Savior and it is 100% His work to save us.

In our spiritually "marred", spiritually blind and carnally minded condition we have from birth, we cannot know God or even have a desire to seek Him out. Mankind is utterly lost and is at the mercy of Christ to save us.

In this present age, He is ONLY saving His Elect, the First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind. He is not going to save anyone else at this time.

To save His Elect, He created a pathway that leads to their salvation. That pathway involves the Early and Latter Rain. For most people in the world, Christ will NOT come to them and call them out from the world. He will leave them to die in their sins. For "many" though, He will come to them individually and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This event is when an unbeliever is "called out" from the world. At that time, Christ gives them a measure of faith and the Holy Spirit with a limited amount of accompanying spiritual gifts. However, He does not heal their spiritual blindness at this time. Because their blindness remains, they CANNOT understand the truth of scripture. It will remain concealed from them. Because of this truth, Christ said this:

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Evil spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since we remain spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, we cannot replace our worldly false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number eight spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. Our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin.

After the new believer devolves into a Man of Sin, their deadly head wound that came from the sword of Christ at the time of the Early Rain is healed. The blow by the Sword of Christ was intended to slay their carnal nature (Old man) but because of our spiritual blindness and Satan’s deceptions, the deadly wound is healed and our Old Man continues to live.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

As a result of the wound's healing, the new believer does NOT come out from the world. They remain in the Seven-Headed Beast of Revelation. In case you are unaware, the Beast is a symbol for mankind in our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition. After the deadly head wound is healed, the new believer will "fall away" (be broken, Isa 10:12) and devolve into a Man of Sin who follows the ways of Satan instead of Christ.

"Falling away" is the one and only sin that leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). This sin of falling away is a return to works for our salvation. It happens because our carnal nature prefers "works" over faith alone (Old Covenant vs. New Covenant):

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

This sin manifests itself in beliefs like the Doctrine of Free Will and Hell, tithing, Sabbath Day keeping and/or many other "works" that the new believer readily accepts from the ministers of Satan (the blind leaders of the church/the blind leading the blind) who lead the church. They are the wolves spoken of by Paul:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Since the time of the Apostles, the church has fallen prey to Satan and his deceptions and it continues to this day. In all the various 2000 denominations/sects, there is no truth to be found in them. They are unknowingly eating leavened bread:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

"Falling away" happens to everyone after receiving the Early Rain (after being called out). It even happens to Christ's Elect. From this spiritual death (loss of salvation), we cannot be renewed by repentance.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes a new believer to "fall away". We use this false belief system to justify why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why we are not. We falsely believe that we are wiser or smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, we take credit for making the right "choice" to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit is not ours. It was Christ's work within us (the Early Rain) that causes us to accept Him as "Lord". In our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, no man will even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Him as Lord. Christ must come to us and do His work within us BEFORE we will accept Him and have a desire to follow Him. As I said, our salvation is 100% the work of Christ, even the timing of it.

Scripture clearly says that unless Christ comes to us and gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only after Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit will we call Jesus “Lord”. Paul’s Damascus Road experience is the “pattern” (type) we must follow in order to be “called out from the world”. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Jesus “Lord”.

After a new believer has “fallen away” and is no longer saved, their only hope for salvation is for Christ to come to them a second time with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Without that appearance, they will die in their sins and receive their “portion” with the unbelievers.

If the fallen away believer is one of the “few” chosen by Christ, Christ will come to them a second time.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And when He comes to them, He brings salvation with Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Just a quick note on this verse above: Christ “appeared” the first time in the flesh and took away the sins of the world on the cross. When He comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain, He does not “appear” to them but remains hidden from their understanding. The Early Rain event is not an “appearance”, it is only a visitation. When Christ comes to a fallen away believer with the Latter Rain, Christ “appears” to them. At that time, Christ fully heals their spiritual blindness (Mark 8:25, Acts 9:18) and the "brightness of His appearing" (2Thes 2:8) will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become. It is at this moment that a new child of God is born.

This is how Christ saves His Elect, the First-Fruits of His harvest in this age. They are a very small group of blessed individuals. The rest of mankind will have to wait until the final age (the Lake of Fire age) before they receive salvation from Christ.

During the final age, Christ will save all the remaining Gentiles:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

As it says in the verse, this truth is a Mystery (meaning that it is hidden). But once all the Gentiles are brought into the Kingdom of Heaven, then the Nation of Israel will be saved.

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The Nation of Israel was first to be called out from the world but they will be last to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But in the end, all who died in Adam, will be made alive in Christ. Then God will be "all in all".

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe

 

[BABerean2]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?
2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?
3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

Claim: God will go back and deal with Israel after the “times of the Gentiles” is completed.



The “times of the Gentiles” is referred to in Luke 21:24, and Romans 11:25, and eluded to indirectly in Acts 28:28. When does the time of the Gentiles come to fullness based on the words of Christ below? Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of Luke 21:24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem during 70 AD. The times of the Gentiles are fulfilled after that event.


Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Based on the words of Christ found above, the “times of the Gentiles” comes to fullness at the future Second Coming of Christ. This fact kills the Dispensational claim found above. Some claim the times of the Gentiles ended during 1948 when the modern State of Israel came into being. What does Paul say below about the times of the Gentiles?


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Did the spiritual blindness of all the Israelites end during 1948?

No.


Claim: Romans 11 proves National Israel will be saved in the future.



I have heard both John MacArthur, and John Hagee make the following statement…


“And then all Israel will be saved.” (Also found on page 349 of the book “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty” by the Jesuit, Manuel Lacunza “Ben Ezra”.)



Both MacArthur, and Hagee, are selectively quoting from the verse below in an attempt to make Dispensational Theology work. Have they changed the meaning of the verse?


Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


These men have changed the word “so”, which is an adverb of manner, into the word “then”, which is an adverb of timing.

What is the “manner” of salvation in the passage? It is in the preceding verses found below.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


In Romans chapter 11 the Apostle Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church, made up of believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles, grafted together into the same tree. In the two verses above the unbelievers can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ. Paul provides no path to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church in the passage.


Is the “covenant” in verse 27 a future covenant with the modern State of Israel, or is it the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people by the blood of Christ at Calvary? In order to answer this question we need to know who is “Israel”, as defined by Paul, earlier in the same letter to the Romans. What did Paul say below about “Israel” in Romans chapter 9?


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (All Israelites are not a part of faithful Israel.)

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

(Being a physical Israelite does not make a person a part of Israel of the promise.)





Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

(Only a “remnant” of Israelites shall be saved.)



Based on the verses above from Romans 9 Paul was describing the “manner” of how Israelites would be saved in Romans 11:26, instead of the timing of their salvation.


The verse below is also often used by Dispensationalists in an attempt to make their doctrine work. Dispensationalists often insist an Israelite can be an enemy of God, and the elect at the same time.


Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.



Throughout Romans chapter 11 the Apostle Paul refers to two different groups of Israelites, one faithful, and one not faithful. Paul begins the chapter this way is Romans 11:1-5, by describing the Israelites who were Baal worshippers, in contrast to the faithful “remnant”, during the time of Elijah. Paul said there was also a faithful “remnant” during his time. Therefore, based on Romans 11:1-5, there are two different groups of Israelites in Romans 11:28. The Israelites who rejected Christ were the “they” who are the enemies of God, while the group of “they” who accepted Christ are the “election”. Paul ends the passage in the same way that he began the passage, with two different groups of Israelites.



Claim: God has blinded Israel during the “Church Age”.



This claim also comes from Romans 11.


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Have all of the Israelites been “partially” blinded, as Dispensationalists infer, or has part of Israel been blinded, and part of Israel has not been blinded? The answer is found in the “remnant” of Romans 11:5.



The only way to make Romans 11 match the Dispesationalists doctrine is by changing words in the passage, and by ignoring the earlier context of the passage, and by ignoring who is “Israel” in Romans 9.

.

 

[Bob_1000]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?
2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?
3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

This is my understanding.

Partial blindness:
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

This was specifically for those Jews who rejected Christ at his coming.

Fulness of the Gentiles:
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Started with the Roman occupation and ended in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem.

All Israel shall be saved.
All of spiritual Israel, Jews and Gentiles wo believed God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Samuel, Ruth, James, John, Paul and all of the old testaments saints were spiritual Israel as well as believers today - All Israel, Jewish and Gentile believers shall be saved.

 

[michael21]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?
2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?
3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives. Zech12:10-14

 

[Guojing]

This is my understanding.

All Israel shall be saved.
All of spiritual Israel, Jews and Gentiles wo believed God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Samuel, Ruth, James, John, Paul and all of the old testaments saints were spiritual Israel as well as believers today - All Israel, Jewish and Gentile believers shall be saved.

You mean us gentile believers, we don't have salvation right now?

 

[Bob_1000]

You mean us gentile believers, we don't have salvation right now?

Yes all gentile believers have salvation right now but there are gentiles and Jews that are not even born yet that will be saved. My point was that "all Israel" means all saved Jews and all saved Gentiles. Those two groups make up God's chosen people.

 

[Guojing]

Yes all gentile believers have salvation right now but there are gentiles and Jews that are not even born yet that will be saved. My point was that "all Israel" means all saved Jews and all saved Gentiles. Those two groups make up God's chosen people.

So when Paul said Israel is blinded until the fulness of the gentiles come in (Romans 11:25), you think he was saying we gentile believers are currently blinded too?

 

[Bob_1000]

So when Paul said Israel is blinded until the fulness of the gentiles come in (Romans 11:25), you think he was saying we gentile believers are currently blinded too?

The blindness to Israel applied ONLY to the Jews that were alive at the time of Jesus and that blindness only lasted until the fulness of the Gentile occupation came in which was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The only reason they were blinded is because they witnessed God in the flesh and still rejected him.

Joh 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jews of today are no more blinded than Gentiles of today. Any Jew or Gentile can call on the name of the Lord at any time and be saved.

 

[Guojing]

The blindness to Israel applied ONLY to the Jews that were alive at the time of Jesus and that blindness only lasted until the fulness of the Gentile occupation came in which was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The only reason they were blinded is because they witnessed God in the flesh and still rejected him.

Joh 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jews of today are no more blinded than Gentiles of today. Any Jew or Gentile can call on the name of the Lord at any time and be saved.

I get the impression that you are the one who decides, as and when you like it, when does Israel consists only of Jews, and when does Israel consists of both Jews and gentiles.

 

[BABerean2]

I get the impression that you are the one who decides, as and when you like it, when does Israel consists only of Jews, and when does Israel consists of both Jews and gentiles.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[Bob_1000]

I get the impression that you are the one who decides, as and when you like it, when does Israel consists only of Jews, and when does Israel consists of both Jews and gentiles.

There are two Israel's in the bible. One is the earthly descendants of Israel and the other is the spiritual descendants of Israel.

A good rule of thumb on how to determine which Israel a particular passage is talking about is to look at the context. If the context is Israel obeying God and keeping his covenant then they are the Israel of God, if they are not then it's talking about the earthly descendants.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

[Clare73]

Romans 11:25–27 (NASB95)
25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them When I take away their sins.”

Paul's discussion of Israel in Romans 11 is a challenge for modern Christian. Given that justification by faith is the only way of salvation, can anyone answer the three questions I post below?

1) What did Paul mean by a "partial hardening"?

God did not harden all Israel, but left a remnant unhardened by him.

2) What did Paul mean by the "fullness of the Gentiles?

All the elect Gentiles.

3) In what way "will" all Israel* be saved?

The same way everyone is saved, but not persisting in unbelief (Romans 11:23).

Can anyone respond to these questions contextually?

Note: *All Israel does not mean modern and secular Israel. Let's keep that in mind before we respond to what Paul was saying.

 

[Guojing]

There are two Israel's in the bible. One is the earthly descendants of Israel and the other is the spiritual descendants of Israel.

A good rule of thumb on how to determine which Israel a particular passage is talking about is to look at the context. If the context is Israel obeying God and keeping his covenant then they are the Israel of God, if they are not then it's talking about the earthly descendants.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

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