The problem of evil

[SteveB28]

Oh, I'm not embarrassed, I can assure you.

And no, I will not be commenting further. I am done playing games.

What a shame. You were a perfect promotion for the importance of gaining a good scientific education, before attempting to comment on scientific matters!

 

[HitchSlap]

I have had quite enough of non-Christians suggesting that Christians should stay in the "Christian-only" sections of this forum. In case you have forgotten, this entire site is a Christian forum. If you don't want to encounter Christians and their view points, why in the world are you here? There are many forums for Atheists on the Internet for atheist viewpoints to be shared. This forum (and it's general sections) are meant to be an outreach for non-Christians who have honest questions and concerns regarding the Christian faith.

I was responding to your agreement that atheists should be put on "ignore." I was merely pointing out that there are sections where you don't have to be confronted with evidence and views other than your own.

And you are right about CF being an outreach site. I was a Christian when I joined in '04.

 

[amariselle]

What a shame. You were a perfect promotion for the importance of gaining a good scientific education, before attempting to comment on scientific matters!

Promote your pet project elsewhere. It has no place on these forums.

 

[amariselle]

I was responding to your agreement that atheists should be put on "ignore." I was merely pointing out that there are sections where you don't have to be confronted with evidence and views other than your own.

And you are right about CF being an outreach site. I was a Christian when I joined in '04.

I wasn't agreeing with the ignore part of the comment specifically. I've never actually used that feature. I prefer to dialogue with people, and if I don't want to, then I simply move on. It would take some serious harassment I think for me to block someone.

What I was agreeing with in the post, was there being no point in trying to talk with people who don't actually want to discuss things or hear what you have to say.

Oh, you joined the same year I did then.

 

[HitchSlap]

I wasn't agreeing with the ignore part of the comment specifically. I've never actually used that feature. I prefer to dialogue with people, and if I don't want to, then I simply move on. It would take some serious harassment I think for me to block someone.

What I was agreeing with in the post, was there being no point in trying to talk with people who don't actually want to discuss things or hear what you have to say.

Oh, you joined the same year I did then.

Discussion is fine.

However, when you make statements that ignore 155 years of science, with a straight face, you should expect some push back and derision.

 

[amariselle]

Just a note: purposefully undermining or insulting Christianity, the Bible and the faith of individual Christians is not permitted on this forum.

I see way too much of this happening here. There are enough other sites on the Internet to engage in such behaviour/arguments. Honest questions asked of Christians regarding their faith is one thing. Disputing the Bible and calling its teachings false, or an outright lie, is another. (Suggesting that the Biblical creation account is an outdated myth because it's not supported by current scientific evidence for instance).

This site holds to very specific Christian beliefs and has a very specific purpose. Non-Christians who come here do not have to agree with the beliefs of Christians, and they are welcome to honestly dialogue and even debate, but what is unacceptable is to instead call any or all of the Christian faith, the Bible or God a lie or a fairytale.

 

[amariselle]

Discussion is fine.

However, when you make statements that ignore 155 years of science, with a straight face, you should expect some push back and derision.

"Push back", maybe. I'm fine with my position being challenged. But remember, we are not to be deriding or personally attacking other members here just because we don't agree with their particular viewpoint.

Oh, and although I do not claim to have all the answers in life (religion, science or otherwise) I do not "ignore 155 years of science."

 

[HitchSlap]

Just a note: purposefully undermining or insulting Christianity, the Bible and the faith of individual Christians is not permitted on this forum.

I see way too much of this happening here. There are enough other sites on the Internet to engage in such behaviour/arguments. Honest questions asked of Christians regarding their faith is one thing. Disputing the Bible and calling its teachings false, or an outright lie, is another. (Suggesting that the Biblical creation account is an outdated myth because it's not supported by current scientific evidence for instance).

This site holds to very specific Christian beliefs and has a very specific purpose. Non-Christians who come here do not have to agree with the beliefs of Christians, and they are welcome to honestly dialogue and even debate, but what is unacceptable is to instead call any or all of the Christian faith, the Bible or God a lie or a fairytale.

You need to report perceived offenses to the mods.

 

[HitchSlap]

"Push back", maybe. I'm fine with my position being challenged. But remember, we are not to be deriding or personally attacking other members here just because we don't agree with their particular viewpoint.

Oh, and although I do not claim to have all the answers in life (religion, science or otherwise) I do not "ignore 155 years of science."

I'll keep this in mind.

 

[amariselle]

You need to report perceived offenses to the mods.

I have. And when I did, the moderator I contacted wrote back to me and told me they had passed on my concerns to the other mods and only one responded. That moderator told me honestly that their hands were tied in the matter. Clearly violations are not always dealt with as per the rules of this forum. In any case, the moderator assured me that if I personally observed rules being violated that I and others could remind members of forum rules and that we are not violating any rules ourselves by respectfully doing so.

 

[SteveB28]

Promote your pet project elsewhere. It has no place on these forums.

MY pet project?? In this discussion I have been replying to YOUR comments about evolution!

What a hide!

 

[SteveB28]

Just a note: purposefully undermining or insulting Christianity, the Bible and the faith of individual Christians is not permitted on this forum.

I see way too much of this happening here. There are enough other sites on the Internet to engage in such behaviour/arguments. Honest questions asked of Christians regarding their faith is one thing. Disputing the Bible and calling its teachings false, or an outright lie, is another. (Suggesting that the Biblical creation account is an outdated myth because it's not supported by current scientific evidence for instance).

This site holds to very specific Christian beliefs and has a very specific purpose. Non-Christians who come here do not have to agree with the beliefs of Christians, and they are welcome to honestly dialogue and even debate, but what is unacceptable is to instead call any or all of the Christian faith, the Bible or God a lie or a fairytale.

Oh what rot!

You don't get to hide your appalling knowledge of scientific research behind the excuse of "you're attacking my faith"! The criticism you have received is because you know nothing about SCIENCE, not because you're a Christian.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Promote your pet project elsewhere. It has no place on these forums.

What pet project?

What I was agreeing with in the post, was there being no point in trying to talk with people who don't actually want to discuss things or hear what you have to say.

If we weren't willing to discuss things, we wouldn't be engaging in discussion, would we?

Just a note: purposefully undermining or insulting Christianity, the Bible and the faith of individual Christians is not permitted on this forum.

This forum is supposedly for philosophy. Erecting barriers to protect a particular belief system from scrutiny is inimical to good philosophy and degrades the quality of the philosophical discourse here.

I see way too much of this happening here. There are enough other sites on the Internet to engage in such behaviour/arguments. Honest questions asked of Christians regarding their faith is one thing. Disputing the Bible and calling its teachings false, or an outright lie, is another. (Suggesting that the Biblical creation account is an outdated myth because it's not supported by current scientific evidence for instance).

First, note that there is a specific forum for "honest questions asked of Christians regarding their faith." Second, many Christians consider the Biblical creation account an outdated myth. Are they also not permitted to make comments to that effect? As I noted earlier, not all Christians share your specific theological commitments, particularly in relation to a literal interpretation of Genesis.

 

[amariselle]

Oh what rot!

You don't get to hide your appalling knowledge of scientific research behind the excuse of "you're attacking my faith"! The criticism you have received is because you know nothing about SCIENCE, not because you're a Christian.

You see what I mean? I wasn't even talking about you in particular, an yet you chose to take offense.

Also, I wasn't even speaking about "attacks" that have happened to me specifically, and I wasn't trying to defend myself. This forum has rules, and you agreed to them when you signed up, as everyone here did.

 

[SteveB28]

You see what I mean? .

What do you mean? That your beliefs were being attacked? They weren't. Your woeful understanding of science was being attacked. That and the arrogant manner in which you claimed to know better about a subject that you plainly did not understand.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I was responding to your agreement that atheists should be put on "ignore." I was merely pointing out that there are sections where you don't have to be confronted with evidence and views other than your own.

And you are right about CF being an outreach site. I was a Christian when I joined in '04.

You do understand the purpose of "outreach"...right? Undoubtedly, I believe there are open minded non-believers who genuinely come to the "outreach" section of a Christian forum because they truly want Christians to "reach out" to them and answer their questions. Christians come to the "outreach" section to "reach out" to non-believers in order to teach them about Christianity with the hope that non-believers may become saved. Not to be "reached out" by atheist activists in order to be "deconverted".

The point is this, if you or anyone else come to this forum for the sole purpose of arguing with Christians, you are in the wrong place. There are plenty of atheist forums you can choose that will allow you to "bash" christianity all you like and you would have plenty of like minded individuals to pat you on the back and tell you what a good boy you are. I recommend going to "the thinking atheist". I have been on that forum for a while and there are a lot of good people there who are far more respectful of Christians than many of the atheists here. There are also a lot of Christians there to harass too.

So, why are you on a Christian forum? What is your end state?

 

[SteveB28]

You do understand the purpose of "outreach"...right? Undoubtedly, I believe there are open minded non-believers who genuinely come to the "outreach" section of a Christian forum because they truly want Christians to "reach out" to them and answer their questions. Christians come to the "outreach" section to "reach out" to non-believers in order to teach them about Christianity with the hope that non-believers may become saved. Not to be "reached out" by atheist activists in order to be "deconverted".

The point is this, if you or anyone else come to this forum for the sole purpose of arguing with Christians, you are in the wrong place. There are plenty of atheist forums you can choose that will allow you to "bash" christianity all you like and you would have plenty of like minded individuals to pat you on the back and tell you what a good boy you are. I recommend going to "the thinking atheist". I have been on that forum for a while and there are a lot of good people there who are far more respectful of Christians than many of the atheists here. There are also a lot of Christians there to harass too.

So, why are you on a Christian forum? What is your end state?

So, learning can only be a one-way process? There is nothing you can 'reach out' to a non-believer for?

And how exactly does correcting some incredibly poor understandings of science amount to 'bashing christians'?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Discussion is fine.

However, when you make statements that ignore 155 years of science, with a straight face, you should expect some push back and derision.

And when you ask a biblical question on a Christian forum, you should expect to get a biblical explanation. If that is not good enough you are in the wrong place. Heck, the purpose of the OP is to understand why God allows evil? The question itself is asked with the assumption that God does exist. Thus, there should be no reason to prove the existence of God in order to answer the question. If someone asked "why is superman vulnerable to kryptonite?", would I also have to prove superman exists in order to understand the answer?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You do understand the purpose of "outreach"...right? Undoubtedly, I believe there are open minded non-believers who genuinely come to the "outreach" section of a Christian forum because they truly want Christians to "reach out" to them and answer their questions. Christians come to the "outreach" section to "reach out" to non-believers in order to teach them about Christianity with the hope that non-believers may become saved. Not to be "reached out" by atheist activists in order to be "deconverted".

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but we are having this discussion in the philosophy forum, not the dedicated outreach forums. The one-way "outreach" model of interaction does not apply here.

The point is this, if you or anyone else come to this forum for the sole purpose of arguing with Christians, you are in the wrong place.

Actually, if you are not here to engage in philosophical discourse, then it's you who is in the wrong place.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You need to report perceived offenses to the mods.

I have been doing that already. I have made quite a few on this thread alone.[emoji4]