The problem of evil

[ScottA]

How is a person's metal tested when they die of cancer at 2 years old?

All tests are measured equally. The good die young.

 

[Loudmouth]

All tests are measured equally. The good die young.

No moral person would allow a 2 year old to suffer a painful death just to "test their metal".

 

[TreasureHunter12]

And God can't do anything about it?

If this reality is created, why would it be created in a way in which the creator would need to later intervene? I don't see that as a realistic possibility.

 

[TreasureHunter12]

All tests are measured equally. The good die young.

A 2 year old being tested with cancer?

The only purpose that kind of situation can serve, in my view, is the effect it has on everyone else.

 

[Loudmouth]

If this reality is created, why would it be created in a way in which the creator would need to later intervene? I don't see that as a realistic possibility.

What moral person would create a reality where children die from painful diseases at the age of 2?

 

[ScottA]

No moral person would allow a 2 year old to suffer a painful death just to "test their metal".

I explained this before: All of creation, including every person...was "created", i.e. made up, fabricated...out of "nothing." Your whole world is a creation of "light" and energy, an unreal pixelated masterpiece. It is only the product or "profit" of this world that go on to actually be real. It's all in the creation story. No real people were killed in the making of this production - save One.

 

[TreasureHunter12]

What moral person would create a reality where children die from painful diseases at the age of 2?

Morality is a human idea. You are projecting.

Look, it's quite clear that if there is a benevolent God, then this reality was not created with the highest priority of preventing pain and suffering. If that were the case, then there would be no possibility of pain and suffering. Or there is no benevolent God. However, if you are willing to assume the possibility of a benevolent God, and you realize there is unjust pain and suffering, then you shouldn't be asking why doesn't this God intervene; you should be asking what could possibly be a higher priority.

 

[Loudmouth]

Morality is a human idea.

Genesis 3:22--And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Seems like the Bible says otherwise.

Look, it's quite clear that if there is a benevolent God, then this reality was not created with the highest priority of preventing pain and suffering. If that were the case, then there would be no possibility of pain and suffering. Or there is no benevolent God. However, if you are willing to assume the possibility of a benevolent God, and you realize there is unjust pain and suffering, then you shouldn't be asking why doesn't this God intervene; you should be asking what could possibly be a higher priority.

No, you shouldn't be asking that. Evil men in history have been allowed to do horrid things with that same line of reasoning.

 

[Loudmouth]

I explained this before: All of creation, including every person...was "created", i.e. made up, fabricated...out of "nothing." Your whole world is a creation of "light" and energy, an unreal pixelated masterpiece. It is only the product or "profit" of this world that go on to actually be real. It's all in the creation story. No real people were killed in the making of this production - save One.

You call that an explanation? It reads like word salad. Alphabet soup makes more sense that than.

 

[ScottA]

You call that an explanation? It reads like word salad. Alphabet soup makes more sense that than.

Did you get that from Mickey Mouse...'cause pixelated characters don't know they are not real.

 

[Loudmouth]

Did you get that from Mickey Mouse...'cause pixelated characters don't know they are not real.

Can anyone translate for ScottA?

 

[ScottA]

Can anyone translate for ScottA?

Disney...but now he's gone. But, it's a small world, after all, perhaps someone will step up.

 

[TreasureHunter12]

Genesis 3:22--And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Seems like the Bible says otherwise.



No, you shouldn't be asking that. Evil men in history have been allowed to do horrid things with that same line of reasoning.

I'm not a Christian, so that Bible passage means nothing to me.

I'm fine if you don't believe in a god. I see now I was mistaken to assume you wanted to truthfully engage the topic.

 

[quatona]

Morality is a human idea. You are projecting.

Look, it's quite clear that if there is a benevolent God, then this reality was not created with the highest priority of preventing pain and suffering. If that were the case, then there would be no possibility of pain and suffering. Or there is no benevolent God. However, if you are willing to assume the possibility of a benevolent God, and you realize there is unjust pain and suffering, then you shouldn't be asking why doesn't this God intervene; you should be asking what could possibly be a higher priority.

Not quite - if we assume that it´s at least somewhere on God´s priority chart, we should be asking ourselves why and how an omnipotent, perfect God can possibly have conflicting, irreconcilable priorities, in the first place.
But, yes, here it comes:
What could possibly be a higher priority?
And why should I adopt this priority system?

(Btw. my question wouldn´t be "why doesn´t God intervene" but rather "why didn´t God get it right from the start? I mean, God is the creator of this stuff.". Or, also interesting: "Why does God sometimes intervene and sometimes not?")

 

[TreasureHunter12]

Not quite - if we assume that it´s at least somewhere on God´s priority chart, we should be asking ourselves why and how an omnipotent, perfect God can possibly have conflicting, irreconcilable priorities, in the first place.

I only understand there to be one purpose for reality. What I think you are saying is why can't a perfect God create reality in a way that accomplishes this purpose while at the same time disallowing anything unwanted such as pain and suffering. Is that right? I've previously shared that it appears to me that negative motivators are necessary. This is just how I see it.

If you believe that the existence of negative motivators excludes the possibility of a benevolent God, I have no interest in trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[Davian]

I explained this before: All of creation, including every person...was "created", i.e. made up, fabricated...out of "nothing." Your whole world is a creation of "light" and energy, an unreal pixelated masterpiece. It is only the product or "profit" of this world that go on to actually be real. It's all in the creation story. No real people were killed in the making of this production - save One.

Quieter than sticking my head in a blender, but makes less sense.

 

[quatona]

I only understand there to be one purpose for reality.

Namely?

What I think you are saying is why can't a perfect God create reality in a way that accomplishes this purpose while at the same time disallowing anything unwanted such as pain and suffering. Is that right?

Something like that. I do not agree with the term "disallowing", though. If God is the creator of everything he created them, I conclude. But let´s stick with your priority chart explanation - it´s you who brought it up, after all, and I tried to think it through.
So, my question would be answered by "God´s top priority is [X]. X can not be had without suffering and pain because [Y]."

I've previously shared that it appears to me that negative motivators are necessary.

Necessary for what? Necessary in which way? Does God have negative motivators?

This is just how I see it.

What do you think is different in heaven (if you believe in heaven, that is)?

 

[TreasureHunter12]

So, my question would be answered by "God´s top priority is [X]. X can not be had without suffering and pain because [Y]."

X

I believe the answer to your question of why this physical reality exists is for the purpose of transforming from ignorance and limitation to self actualization through exercising faith.

Y

Evil and suffering are for the purpose of exercising faith. It provides the resistance, motivation, and pressure to allow us to choose the riskier, less clear option.

 

[Achilles6129]

It seems to me the problem of evil is a real problem, and it is my main barrier to faith. I just have trouble believing in a benevolent creator that cares about people- I see no evidence for it in this world. There is gross unfairness and suffering in the world and I don't believe Christians can account for it.

I grant that I could be wrong, that somehow there is a God in charge of it all and its just like the Christian God and is beyond my understanding. But it would be pretty cruel for such a being to hold honest doubts against me, given the quality of evidence he's left.

And honestly, if it is the case that God exists and he has such a mysterious plan, what does that say about Christian epistemology? How could we take any religious authority seriously if God's will is so inscrutable? It seems to me much more skepticism of religious claims are warranted, regardless of whether or not the Christian God exists.

Suppose that God has a good reason for permitting evil for a time, and then he intervenes and destroys all evil. Also, we need to note that the Judaeo-Christian God is defined as being perfectly compatible with evil. The Judaeo-Christian God is defined that way because the Bible talks all about plagues, death, suffering, etc., from the very beginning. So the "problem of evil" can't be used as an argument against the Judaeo-Christian God, only as a question: why doesn't he intervene to stop it? And in this case he's answered: he doesn't intervene for awhile to stop it for the sake of the elect (see the parable of the tares and the wheat). Then he does intervene.

 

[FireDragon76]

That last answer is just lame. Why not create a world without the possibility of evil? Is that impossible? Then how can God be omnipotent?

If God's only motive for not stopping evil is the elect, then he's not omnibenevolent. He loves some, and not others.

Let me make clear, I'm not an atheist (but neither do I claim to be an orthodox Christian). However, I believe most traditional Christian explanations for evil are inadequate and childish.