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The practice of healing and working of miracles

Carl Emerson

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No... not tricked. Just ignorant of what the scripture says belongs to them. Healing has been provided to all believers in the atonement. 90% do not know it and so do not take it to themselves. They are just unaware of this benefit. It is sitting on the shelf there, an unopened gift.

Healing in the atonement does not guarantee healing on demand or healing within our timetable. Even Jesus could only do what He saw the father doing.

Sure all believers will ultimately be completely healed through what He did on the Cross, but when - is His business.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Healing in the atonement does not guarantee healing on demand or healing within our timetable. Even Jesus could only do what He saw the father doing.

Sure all believers will ultimately be completely healed through what He did on the Cross, but when - is His business.
This is true. But the question is what should you believe, that is, hold as true, until that happens, even until the end. The point I have been trying to make is that we are to believe that Jesus has already taken all of our sickness and disease, and that is what we should hold as true in our hearts, regardless of what happens.
The Lord told me something similar to what you have shared. I prayed and asked why, if You have already taken our sickness and disease, and we hold that truth and confess the same, do some have to wait? He spoke immediately to my heart, almost as if He was waiting for the question. He said that it is our job to believe. That is what we do. Just believe even if things are not seen. He said it was His job to make it happen. He said directly, You do your job, and I will do mine. The sense I got was a little harsher. Essentially, mind your own business. Which, in our case, is to believe. There are reasons why people do not have it manifest. Just as there are reasons people do not have salvation manifest. And that is between God and them. But all the while, we hold to the truth. By His stripes, we were healed.
 
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Guojing

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Sure all believers will ultimately be completely healed through what He did on the Cross, but when - is His business.

Paul already stated when that will happen in Romans 8:18-25

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Paul already stated when that will happen in Romans 8:18-25

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Explain what you mean... please.
 
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Bobber

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Does not the Bible show clearly there are many more false teachers, false prophets, than true teachers and true prophets ?
My point is you don't look at what men do or don't do to define the will of God on the subject of healing. The WORD alone or the Bible is to determine what we're to believe.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Healing is given to us when our corrupted bodies are finally redeemed
This is a cessationist belief and as such goes against the rules of this sub. Contribute in a meaningful way according to our rules please.
 
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Guojing

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This is a cessationist belief and as such goes against the rules of this sub. Contribute in a meaningful way according to our rules please.

Perhaps you can read my post again and explain why is that a cessationist view
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Perhaps you can read my post again and explain why is that a cessationist view
Paul already stated when that will happen in Romans 8:18-25

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

The ultimate and complete healing you are referring to, is given to us when our corrupted bodies are finally redeemed
That is 100% cessationism. God provides healing for all people, at all times. Not just when they die
 
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Aaron112

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My point is you don't look at what men do or don't do to define the will of God on the subject of healing. The WORD alone or the Bible is to determine what we're to believe.
Good point and well taken, but not practiced on the internet. Tradition is <considered> more powerful and more accepted and more promoted and more defended than God's Word is , almost everyplace on earth.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Good point and well taken, but not practiced on the internet. Tradition is <considered> more powerful and more accepted and more promoted and more defended than God's Word is , almost everyplace on earth.
Unfortunately true, people will often promote their own experiences and traditions above that of God's Word, which explains the awful state that the Church is in.
 
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Aaron112

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Unfortunately true, people will often promote their own experiences and traditions above that of God's Word, which explains the awful state that the Church is in.
I've read testimonies from overseas that , for instance, the believers meeting together in China feel great sorrow and grief , and pray often, for the 'church' in the usa; they see the <spiritual> poverty of it, and they themselves, with only possessing the clothes they have on, yet they have glorious fellowship with Messiah Yahshua, Jesus, and with each other, while under threats of imprisonment and death over the decades, sometimes daily, but not in fear - rather increased boldness and joy in Jesus in the midst of much persecution seldom realized or seen openly in the usa. They truthfully as one with Jesus pray for suffering to accomplish in the usa what the Creator Desires, namely the working / perfecting of the saints in truth, in true love, as written in the Bible.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I've read testimonies from overseas that , for instance, the believers meeting together in China feel great sorrow and grief , and pray often, for the 'church' in the usa; they see the <spiritual> poverty of it, and they themselves, with only possessing the clothes they have on, yet they have glorious fellowship with Messiah Yahshua, Jesus, and with each other, while under threats of imprisonment and death over the decades, sometimes daily, but not in fear - rather increased boldness and joy in Jesus in the midst of much persecution seldom realized or seen openly in the usa. They truthfully as one with Jesus pray for suffering to accomplish in the usa what the Creator Desires, namely the working / perfecting of the saints in truth, in true love, as written in the Bible.
I've had dreams and visions that such a time is not far away from the US. Anyone who watches the news can see it's already beginning. Jesus will purify His people before He returns, one way or the other. But if it takes trial, tribulation, and refining by fire for people to finally put aside their own self will and ambition to seek the face of the LORD, then so be it
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I've had dreams and visions that such a time is not far away from the US. Anyone who watches the news can see it's already beginning. Jesus will purify His people before He returns, one way or the other. But if it takes trial, tribulation, and refining by fire for people to finally put aside their own self will and ambition to seek the face of the LORD, then so be it
One way the church gets purified is through persecution. Pretenders will not hang around if it means suffering rejection and abuse. We have seen this to some extent in the last decade or so, as many have left the church. I do not think we have seen anything yet. As of today, the persecution has been due to hypocrisy and failures in the church world. In the future, the rejection will be solid because of the message itself. It will be because of the Bible's stance against sexual confusion of every kind. It will be considered "hate speech." We are seeing this already. Already, we have seen the Bible removed from schools for this reason. Wait til they figure out the Bible's teaching about our being "new creations" and the unbelievers are children of the devil. Even tho these aspects are not pushed by believers, you know the opponents will stick the knife in where it hurts the most, true or not. In another way, this persecution will place believers under the microscope. If you are not living right, the world will let everyone know about it. That is another reason fair-weather believers will flee.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Healing in the atonement does not guarantee healing on demand or healing within our timetable. Even Jesus could only do what He saw the father doing.

Sure all believers will ultimately be completely healed through what He did on the Cross, but when - is His business.
Considering our Salvation is also in the Atonement, would your position be the same with Salvation on demand or on our time table?
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Considering our Salvation is also in the Atonement, would your position be the same with Salvation on demand or on our time table?
A scripture that doesn't seem to get a lot of attention in this regard is:

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“He took on our infirmities
and carried our diseases.” Matthew 8:16-17 (BSB)

Jesus healing people was a fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4. The same scripture that Peter quotes in 1 Peter 2:21-25 regarding salvation. The implication is quite clear, that the cross not only paid for our sins, but it also provides the means by which we can receive actual, tangible healing. Thus when those in Acts declared, "In Jesus name..." people were actually healed by the same sacrifice that gives us eternal life.

So as you correctly comment, if we are going to believe that the cross provides salvation at this present moment, we should also believe that the cross provides healing for our bodies... because it does!
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The ultimate and complete healing you are referring to, is given to us when our corrupted bodies are finally redeemed
I believe today, we are in a time of faith and hope. This is the means we are to please God. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. So, things such as sickness may be present to test that faith. We need to hold fast to the truth and confession even in the face of outward, contradictory evidence. But that test is between the individual and God. Our faith stance should be that He has healed us. At the end of the "faith chapter" in Heb 11, we see OT believers who believed even tho they never received, even to their deaths. They believed, which in their case was the only evidence of the unseen thing. Faith was the only substance of the thing they hoped for. And despite never having received in the days of their lives, they pleased God. I believe this should be our faith stance regarding healing and, in many cases, prayer. We are to believe that we have received when we pray.
You are correct that in heaven, we will have perfected bodies that have no need of healing. As for today, we are to pray His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We are to pray for bodies that are healthy and have no need of healing.
Peace.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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A scripture that doesn't seem to get a lot of attention in this regard is:

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“He took on our infirmities
and carried our diseases.” Matthew 8:16-17 (BSB)

Jesus healing people was a fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4. The same scripture that Peter quotes in 1 Peter 2:21-25 regarding salvation. The implication is quite clear, that the cross not only paid for our sins, but it also provides the means by which we can receive actual, tangible healing. Thus when those in Acts declared, "In Jesus name..." people were actually healed by the same sacrifice that gives us eternal life.

So as you correctly comment, if we are going to believe that the cross provides salvation at this present moment, we should also believe that the cross provides healing for our bodies... because it does!
Truth. Some suggest that the quote in 1 Peter 2:24 is about "spiritual healing." Yet Matthew quoted the same verses as pertaining to physical healing.

Isaiah 53:4-5 LITV
4. Surely He has borne our sicknesses, and He carried our pain;
yet we esteemed Him plagued, smitten by God, and afflicted.
5. But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities;
the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His wounds we ourselves are healed.
 
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Always in His Presence

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A scripture that doesn't seem to get a lot of attention in this regard is:

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“He took on our infirmities
and carried our diseases.” Matthew 8:16-17 (BSB)

Jesus healing people was a fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4. The same scripture that Peter quotes in 1 Peter 2:21-25 regarding salvation. The implication is quite clear, that the cross not only paid for our sins, but it also provides the means by which we can receive actual, tangible healing. Thus when those in Acts declared, "In Jesus name..." people were actually healed by the same sacrifice that gives us eternal life.

So as you correctly comment, if we are going to believe that the cross provides salvation at this present moment, we should also believe that the cross provides healing for our bodies... because it does!
Don't forget Jesus' own words in Luke 5

Luke 5:
19 And when they could not find how they might bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the housetop and let him down with his bed through the tiling into the midst before Jesus.​
20 When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”​
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Jesus offered proof of His power to forgive sins by healing the man - His proof has never changed
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Don't forget Jesus' own words in Luke 5

Luke 5:
19 And when they could not find how they might bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the housetop and let him down with his bed through the tiling into the midst before Jesus.​
20 When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”​
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Jesus offered proof of His power to forgive sins by healing the man - His proof has never changed
Exactly, Jesus authority to forgive our sins, and ultimately His power to save our souls are evidenced by His ability to heal. Not just in His own ministry, but in the ministry of those who believe in Him.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. John 14:12 (ESV)

As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you. John 20:21 (ESV)
 
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