The Power Of One Article

[Jamdoc]

No. There’s God’s wrath in the 2nd and 4th seals (famine, pestilence, wars and brutal killings of humans by wild beasts). Guess what? Read 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

That verse is about the pre-Trib rapture.

the seals are horsmen, it is actions that men do. God just stops restraining them.
in the 5th seal, the martyrs ask how long it will be before God judges the world.
the wrath only begins in Revelation 6:17
before that? Not the wrath of God. you can call it wrath of Satan if you want but .. not God's judgement. it is loosening God's restraint however.
There is a type of war that killing 1/4 of the world's population is a low ball figure, and it would kill by war, famine, and disease.

and you have to remember what a "beast" is in Daniel and Revelation.
they don't mean wild animal attacks will kill 1/4 of the people on the planet.

Daniel 7, are the beasts wild animals .. or?
Revelation 13 are the beasts wild animals.. or?
Revelation 17 are the beasts wild animals.. or?

I take it to mean it is a world war between the empires that currently exist on Earth at that time, and believe it is the ones in our time. It is why I do not think of things like "Revived Roman Empire" Because the 4th seal will basically unravel the current world order.... if the first 3 don't already.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 6:15 The Kings of the earth, the nobles and the commanders, and all people, slave or free.......

What you must provide is any scripture that says the faithful peoples will be removed from the Lords Day of wrath.
As there is no such scripture, we can all see what a false teacher you are.

Keras, the “faithful peoples” are not even on Earth at the time of Rev 6:15-17.

Revelation 6:15 The Kings of the earth, the nobles and the commanders, and all people, slave or free.......

What you must provide is any scripture that says the faithful peoples will be removed from the Lords Day of wrath.
As there is no such scripture, we can all see what a false teacher you are.

Keras, it’s so nice to cross paths with you again! How have you been?

Here’s the answer to your question. Let’s look at Rev 6:15-17 and very important related verses.

Rev 6:15-17 (ESV): Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

In verse 15, “everyone” on the earth reacts by hiding in caves and among the rocks.

In verse 16, everyone is reacting to an alleged sighting of Jesus, by hiding.

Verse 17 is popularly interpreted as the starting point for the wrath in the Trib.

First, those verses prove that everyone (verse 15) dwelling on the earth behave the exact opposite of believers. They run and hide from an alleged sighting of Jesus (verses 15-16).

Now, consider this: What would believers do in the same circumstances? We would no doubt run TO Jesus, exceedingly overjoyed to worship and praise Him!

There isn’t one believer among “everyone” on the earth at the time of the 6th seal. “Everyone” on the earth is accounted for in verse 15. They all run and hide from Jesus (verses 15-17).

Let’s look at wrath. First and foremost, it will be found that all verses about God’s wrath do not always include the word “wrath.”

Here’s one example: Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

The most dreadful wrath is “war, famine, wild beasts, and disease.”

Let’s look at the 2nd seal. Rev 6:3-4 (NLT): When the Lamb broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

In the 2nd seal, we find wars occurring simultaneously all over the world. All of the earth is suddenly a “kill or be killed” society. The wrath in the Trib provably begins in the 2nd seal.

Let’s look at the 4th seal. Rev 6:7-8 (NLT): When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living being say, “Come!” 8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.

In the 4th seal, all four of the most “dreadful punishments” (Ezekiel 14:21) fall upon the earth.

In the Trib, God’s wrath officially begins in the 2nd seal, and it escalates from there (4th seal). The “wrath to come” begins in the 2nd seal (Rev 6:3-4).

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

There is Jesus, again, keeping all believers from the wrath to come in the Trib, just as in Rev 3:10.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

a) no one
b) everyone
c) both of the above
d) secret

a) no one
b) everyone
c) both of the above
d) secre

a) no one
b) everyone
c) both of the above
d) secret

In the Trib (the 7-year Tribulation), there will be Jews (Matt 24:22), unbelievers and new converts.

The unbelievers during the Trib are referred to as “those who dwell on the earth” (Rev 6:10; Rev 11:10; and Rev 13:8 & 14).

The new converts are unbelievers who enter the Trib, who are eventually led to conversion by the 144k (Rev 7:1-8), the 144,000 protected servants of God (Rev 7:3).

An early example of the new converts is Rev 6:9-10. Therein, the new converts are the first souls under the altar. They entered the Trib as unbelievers, and they came to Christ by the work of the 144k. There are millions of new converts from the 2nd and 4th seals.

Rev 6:11 is key. Here’s the full verse: Rev 6:11 (ESV): Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Those first converts must wait under the alter for “the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.”

Those fellow servants are found in Rev 20:4 (ESV): … Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

All of the souls under the alter are resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They next appear all together in Rev 7:9-17. They are before the throne of God, singing praises for their salvation (Rev 7:10).

The combined total of the new converts is realistically over one billion. These new converts are the GM (great multitude) mentioned in Rev 7:14.

The unbelievers are “those who dwell on the earth.”

The Jews in the Trib are most prevalent in Rev 12:6 & 13. Verse 13 aligns with Matt 24:16.

The Jews also are cited in Rev 13:7.

The foregoing is concise in many spots. I welcome your comments and questions.

 

[keras]

Keras, the “faithful peoples” are not even on Earth at the time of Rev 6:15-17.

Your usual pretentious and hopeful guesswork. Until you provide the Bible verse which says that God intends to rapture His people to heaven, before any trials and testing, then your beliefs are wrong.

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

This verse is no proof for a rapture. Heaven or removal are not mentioned.
We are told many times how the Lord will protect His own people as they pass thru all that must happen. Isaiah 43:2 The 3 men in the furnace are our example.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Your usual pretentious and hopeful guesswork. Until you provide the Bible verse which says that God intends to rapture His people to heaven, before any trials and testing, then your beliefs are wrong.

This verse is no proof for a rapture. Heaven or removal are not mentioned.
We are told many times how the Lord will protect His own people as they pass thru all that must happen. Isaiah 43:2 The 3 men in the furnace are our example.

Your usual pretentious and hopeful guesswork. Until you provide the Bible verse which says that God intends to rapture His people to heaven, before any trials and testing, then your beliefs are wrong.

This verse is no proof for a rapture. Heaven or removal are not mentioned.
We are told many times how the Lord will protect His own people as they pass thru all that must happen. Isaiah 43:2 The 3 men in the furnace are our example.

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The secondary definition to “delivers us” means “snatched away.” We are snatched away from Earth to Heaven. That is validated by Rev 4:1, the most complete verse about the pre-Trib rapture.

Rev 3:10 is Jesus’ words guaranteeing that believers (“you”) will be kept from the Trib, and that only “those” (unbelievers) who dwell on the earth, will be tried by 21 judgments of God’s wrath, over seven years.

Those two verses are the words of Jesus that are clearly about the pre-Trib rapture. It is those two verses that clarify the intended meaning in 1 Th 1:10, John 14:3 and 1 Th 4:16-17.

Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Wrath could be generally defined as “dreadful punishments from God.” Ezekiel 14:21 is exclusively about dreadful punishments from God. There can’t be any doubt that they represent God’s wrath.

Furthermore, it is “wild beasts” that are specifically cited in Ezekiel 14:21. The meaning is obvious. You’re citing “beasts” that represent evil beings. The contrast is crystal clear.

In the 2nd seal (Rev 6:3-4) we have wars that occur simultaneously all over the world. That equates to a “kill or be killed” society. Millions of unbelievers will be killed.

Per Ezekiel 14:21, wars are a “dreadful punishment” from God. The earliest occurrence of God’s wrath in the Trib is therefore in the 2nd seal. That is “the wrath to come” in 1 Th 1:10. We will be snatched away from Earth immediately before the start of the Trib (Rev 6:1-2). Jesus affirms that in Rev 3:10.

 

[keras]

We will be snatched away from Earth immediately before the start of the Trib

Those who promote and teach false theories and wrong doctrines, will be held accountable at their Judgment.
Using Revelation 4:1 as a proof of a general rapture, is plainly wrong and destroys the whole 'rapture; belief.