The Poverty : Gospel

[Aviel]

Reader,


Lets say that a young mother ......is not born again, and they have 6 young children.
She is 25 yrs old, and her husband left her, after #6 was yet to be born.
Two of the Children are Twins., the boys...... and 4 are little girls.
'Mary" is dirt poor and on food stamps....and the children are dressed in rags, none of them are over 6, and often they are barefoot in the winter.

So, on one side of Mary, is a Christian family, who believes that if they are starving (and so are their 3 children), then that is a "Godly sign of Spirituality".
They teach and preach the "poverty gospel" as their faith, even tho the Bible teaches that "Poverty is the destruction of the poor".

On the other side of Mary, is a family of Believers, and they have been blessed abundantly beyond measure, and they give some of their money into the work of God, and He's keeps giving them more of His money, through them.
They have the favor of God on them, and Jesus said, I have come to "give you life, and that more abundantly".

So, Mary the young single mother, and her 6 children, need a new furnace., and its winter and they are very cold in their wood frame house that has no funace heat.

1.) So, she goes to the "poverty gospel Christians" and says...>"can you help us"?
And the Poverty Gospel Christians say...>"...oh...would that we could..... but we have nothing we can give you, and we too are freezing every winter, but God is well pleased.. and ... God bless.""""".

And Mary says......'"ummmm, ok, thanks".

2.) Then Mary goes to the other Christian neighbors, and says... "Can you help me and my children, we are so cold"'..
And the Christian man and wife invite her in for a moment, and they listen... and they say......" Mary, hon....you are coming here to stay with us, right now.....and your children also. And we'll put sleeping bags on the carpeted floors and find a way to keep us all warm, and tomorrow, we'll call the Furnace Specialist and have them come and repair... or put in a new furnace in for you, and we'll see about helping you pay off your mortgage also.. And we'll go shopping tomorrow for some socks and shoes for your kids"...Now Mary, we are here for you, we are your new family, because God loves you and so do we.".

 

[d taylor]

-​

So, where if this is a gospel. Is the telling to Mary, how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God. She (Mary) needs to believe in Jesus, that is to believe Jesus is the resurrection and the life, The promised Messiah/Son of God.
Telling Mary God loves you, does not give her or no one else Eternal Life.

 

[RandyPNW]

Your hypothetical seems intentionally set up to advocate for pursuing prosperity. However, the Apostle Paul at times suffered poverty, and many believers have had their possessions taken away by a government that did not like Christians.

That being said, of course it's a wise thing to provide wealth for your family. However, wealth is not for everybody. Just as stunning beauty is not everything in God's economy, so we should pursue the gifts God has given to us, because in using these gifts we find our true riches.

 

[Aviel]

-​

So, where if this is a gospel. Is the telling to Mary,

God is a giver.
He gave Jesus into a hateful hopeless world.
He asks us to do the same....and the way we Give Jesus, is to do as Jesus would do.

See, a CHRISTian is never more like God then when they GIVE into the hurt of others, into the need of others.

That you dont understand this, is proven by your own words @d taylor .


Listen....

"Go about doing good"..

See, words are empty, but deeds are true.

Love is just a word until it becomes a deed.

See my Story for the update.
And if you can't understand it, then me explaining it again for you, is going to be just as useless, regarding you. @d taylor .

 

[bling]

The problem is not a lack of money, but one of the problem among Christians can be to much money.
I had a missionary friend twelve years ago, that went to China, spent all night teaching a hundred house church leaders and afterwards went to a leader’s house to give some words of wisdom to his only two young sons, wanting to do mission work. They planned to go hundreds of miles to far west Chinese Province that had no Christians. They had collected most of the money they needed already. My missionary friend was trying to explain budgeting and the support they would need, when he came to realize they were only taking enough money to get there and nothing for staying there or getting back and no phone. My missionary friend gave them all the money he had and the watch he was wearing, so they could leave in the next week.

 

[Aviel]

The problem is not a lack of money, but one of the problem among Christians can be to much money.

There is no such thing as too much money., but there is certainly "poverty is the destruction of the poor".

See, Money is not the issue.

The issue is, can the person deal with money?

Many can't., as a fool and their money are soon parted, or a fool under the influence of love of money, is a pony on the track of destruction.

The truth is.....Money Matters.

How do you know?
Trying buying food without it.
Try paying your bills without it.


How do you know that God wants you to have plenty?
Its because God tells you to give to the poor and He's not talking about giving them advice.
And have you noticed that most in the world are poor?

And, if you believe you should "Tithe and Offerings" then you need some money to do that..

And how can you take care of your family if you dont have any money??

Sure, you can walk across Biden's open border and use the American Taxpayer to support you and your family... but that is not really "of God"..

So, there is a stupid type of spirituality that is really a "martyr complex" .. its a type of neurotic mentality that believes that if you try to suffer then that is God wanting you to do that... and that is "kinda crazy" and there are a lot like that, who are stuck in a religion they believe is Christianity.

"Well, what about a vow of poverty".. ."what about St. Francis"...

Yes. That's true, but that is not the same as believing that God wants you broke and destitute.

 

[bling]

Being “generous” has nothing to do with the amount you give, but has everything to do with the amount you give in proportion to the amount you have. Remember Mark 12:42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. And Elijah went to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon who was willing to share her last meal with the prophet.

Is it harder to be generous when you have lots of money?

We worry (and worship) money way too much, as if it will provide us with something of value. Yes, there are people working daily for the bread they will eat that day, providing us rich people with the opportunity to experience Godly type Love, so what will their fate be?

Lazarus in the rich man and Lazarus story, was extremely poor and needy, but he was also there providing the very best daily opportunity for the rich person (who God also Loved) to experience Godly type Love by just giving a little care to Lazarus. Which person would you want to be?

 

[Aviel]

Being “generous” has nothing to do with the amount you give,

Thats very true.
Being Generous has nothing to do with the amount or the product, as this is just the end result of the Cause.

So, the 'Generosity" or the GIVING, is just the end product of the type of HEART you have... as if your heart is compassionate and caring them generosity or CHARITY toward people will naturally flow from you hand, due to your Heart.

If you are greed and selfish, then you will find reasons not to give., as that is your HEART.

 

[bling]

Thats very true.
Being Generous has nothing to do with the amount or the product, as this is just the end result of the Cause.

So, the 'Generosity" or the GIVING, is just the end product of the type of HEART you have... as if your heart is compassionate and caring them generosity or CHARITY toward people will naturally flow from you hand, due to your Heart.

If you are greed and selfish, then you will find reasons not to give., as that is your HEART.

We at least agree with my first, but what about the last paragraph:
Lazarus in the rich man and Lazarus story, was extremely poor and needy, but he was also there providing the very best daily opportunity for the rich person (who God also Loved) to experience Godly type Love by just giving a little care to Lazarus. Which of these two men would you want to be?
and
Do you see it being harder for a rich person to be truly generous than a poor person?

 

[Aviel]

Do you see it being harder for a rich person to be truly generous than a poor person?

Poverty makes you greedy.
Because all you do is think about getting money.

Whereas if you have plenty, then money can become, in your mind and life, what it should be..

A TOOL.

Now, "poverty is the destruction of the poor".., and that is not what God wants for His CHILDREN.

This is no different then you having children, and you want the best for them.

No parent wants their children broke and sick and suffering, unless the parent is crazy.

The Instinct a set of parents have, that causes them to want the best for their child...... that is a God given instinct, as that is His instinct.

 

[hislegacy]

Poverty makes you greedy.
Because all you do is think about getting money.

Not real sure I agree about that. I’m just too travel too much. Some of the most gracious and generous people I have ever known live in countries where their income is 40 to 100 a month. And no - they do not always think about money - I think that is a mostly Western mindset found among the upper income groups - always striving to get more.

Whereas if you have plenty, then money can become, in your mind and life, what it should be..

Giving by income level Middle-class Americans donate a little less. But the lower-income population surprises by giving more than the middle—and in some measures even more than the top. (As a percentage of available income, that is. In absolute dollars, those in higher income groups give much, much more money.)

A TOOL.

Some use as a tool to bless others and others use as a tool to generate more income for themselves

Now, "poverty is the destruction of the poor"..,

Are you referring to Proverbs 10:15?

and that is not what God wants for His CHILDREN.

This is no different then you having children, and you want the best for them.

No parent wants their children broke and sick and suffering, unless the parent is crazy.

On that we agree - as parents, we want the very best for our children - discipline, instruction, compassion, education and training. At some point we expect them to stand on their own two feet and make their way in life.

As a parent of six, my love and dreams for each of them is the same. My want for each of them is identical. I have one who owns a small business - one is a maintenance man - one is a corporate supervisor - one is a medical professional - one a salesperson and one unemployed and bankrupt.

They make from nothing to hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. All based on their work ethic, abilities and education.

My want for. Them is the same

Look just a few verses before your quotation on poverty:

Prov 10:4 He who has a slack hand becomes poor,
But the hand of the diligent makes rich.

The Instinct a set of parents have, that causes them to want the best for their child...... that is a God given instinct, as that is His instinct.

2 Thess 3:10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

Is God’s will and instinct as well.

I am NOT against prosperity in any way, shape or form. But I am well that God is the one who ‘blesses the work of your hands”.

Prosperity is not some gift that falls like cherries of a tree, but it is the blessing of God on your work and your efforts.

And money is not the cure all answer - even to Christians.

 

[bling]

Poverty makes you greedy.
Because all you do is think about getting money.

Whereas if you have plenty, then money can become, in your mind and life, what it should be..

A TOOL.

Now, "poverty is the destruction of the poor".., and that is not what God wants for His CHILDREN.

This is no different then you having children, and you want the best for them.

No parent wants their children broke and sick and suffering, unless the parent is crazy.

The Instinct a set of parents have, that causes them to want the best for their child...... that is a God given instinct, as that is His instinct.

WOW! What is “best” for your children is not “money”, but Godly Love, the Spirit and eternal life (really fulfilling our earthly objective). Having “Money” in this life, is there only so you can help others. Money is not meant to satisfy anyone and only make you want to seek more earthly rewards in this life.

This messed up world we live in, is cause or allowed by God to provide the very best opportunities for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective, which does not take money.

What Biblical support do you have for: “Poverty makes you greedy.”? Where the widows in the Bible greedy, were the baggers Jesus held greedy, were the poor prophets greedy. Look also at some rich and non-needy people in the Bible like: Was King David, Solomon, most of the Kings of the Jews, the rich Jews in the Northen Kingdom, Adam and Eve, Judas.

The Christian is happy no matter what circumstance the Christian find themselves in, if they are righteous. The non-Christian person is not really happy inwardly (they have no eternal bless to look forward to). Silver and gold you may not have, but you can share your happiness (blessings) with other needy people.

Money is not always a tool for good. Paying expensive lawyers to allow you to avoid justice is not good for you.

God wants what is “best” for all the Lazarus’ of this world, but God also wants what is best for all the rich people of this world. God has caused and allowed some of His children to be extremely poor and needy in this life, to provide the very best opportunity, even daily, for His other children, who are rich, to humble themselves and serve these needy people to experience Godly type Love, but if these rich people refuse God’s opportunity, they are refusing Love to the point they would never accept this Godly type Love and thus not be happy in heaven. God will make up for the hardship those needy people went through trying to help their rich brothers, with heaven.

 

[Aviel]

Some use as a tool to bless others and others use as a tool to generate more income for themselves

And that is fine.

No one starts a business to lose money..

No one gets a job to not be paid.

Prov 10:4 He who has a slack hand becomes poor,
But the hand of the diligent makes rich.

"rich"

that's an interesting term..., as its a very subjective idea, until you give it a context.

For example.

Donald Trump is rich.

The Catholic Vatican is rich.

And if you are in India, drinking water from a dirty river that you also use as your Toilet..... and you are living in a metal box the size of a Taxi, along with your Children....then all of us on this Forum are rich, as compared to that person and their family.

2 Thess 3:10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

Tell that to Biden's "newcomers", over a million = who just came across the USA Border Illegally, since last Oct 2023.

And money is not the cure all answer - even to Christians.

In a person's life...... = Money is like oil in your car engine.
Its needs to be full as if its gets too low, your engine will self destruct, and so will your life.

 

[Aviel]

WOW! What is “best” for your children is not “money”, but Godly Love,

You can't eat "Godly love"

You can't wear it.

So, if your Children are starving, and freezing in the winter, and you want to feed them "Godly love"........

= Good luck with that, as that is just "im trying to sound spiritual"......and you can't eat that, or be warmed by that in the winter.

The NT says...."if you dont provide for your family, you are worse than an unbeliever".

And that is talking about , FOOD< Shelter, Protection, and LOVE.

So, the first 3 on that list COST MONEY. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[bling]

You can't eat "Godly love"

You can't wear it.

So, if your Children are starving, and freezing in the winter, and you want to feed them "Godly love"........

= Good luck with that, as that is just "im trying to sound spiritual"......and you can't eat that, or be warmed by that in the winter.

The NT says...."if you dont provide for your family, you are worse than an unbeliever".

And that is talking about , FOOD< Shelter, Protection, and LOVE.

So, the first 3 on that list COST MONEY. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

You live forever with "Godly Love", yet without Godly Love and a full stomach you only live for a short time on earth.
If my children are Heaven bound Christians is that not more important than food, safety and clothing? Their living is more important than my living and I should do what I can to keep them going, but their being heaven bound is much more important than their living out a few more years on this earth.

Where have you spent time around poor people?
You seem to put a huge priority on continued life here on earth, when we are told to be willing to die for the cause.
Our earthly objective is not to: "make money" or " make sure our families stay alive".
Your not addressing my questions:
What Biblical support do you have for: “Poverty makes you greedy.”?
Lazarus in the rich man and Lazarus story, was extremely poor and needy, but he was also there providing the very best daily opportunity for the rich person (who God also Loved) to experience Godly type Love by just giving a little care to Lazarus. Which of these two men would you want to be?
and
Do you see it being harder for a rich person to be truly generous than a poor person?

 

[trophy33]

In basically all developed countries, she would get quite a lot of social benefits for the children and if she still could not manage her finances properly, her children would be taken from her and given to the state care.

Just saying, from a more realistic point of view.

 

[Aviel]

If my children are Heaven bound Christians is that not more important than food, safety and clothing?

The most important decision that will ever be made by a human, is... "where am i going to spend eternity".

So, that is solved in an instant, when we "believe on Jesus".

However, we have to live, until Hebrews 9:27 finds us.
And how we live, matters.
And how we take care of our family is one of the ways you find out what type of CHRISTian you are dealing with...

See, the so called "believer"... who does not take care of His Family, when you find that one... then you found one that is "worse than an unbeliever".

 

[bling]

The most important decision that will ever be made by a human, is... "where am i going to spend eternity".

So, that is solved in an instant, when we "believe on Jesus".

However, we have to live, until Hebrews 9:27 finds us.
And how we live, matters.
And how we take care of our family is one of the ways you find out what type of CHRISTian you are dealing with...

See, the so called "believer"... who does not take care of His Family, when you find that one... then you found one that is "worse than an unbeliever".

Taking care of your family is first and foremost doing what you can to help them make the choice for Christ and secondly feeding, clothing, providing shelter and protecting them. You do want them to survive and have the time to make the choice for Christ and go on to help others make that choice. How much money does a person need beyond the bare necessities for self and family to provide the best opportunity to help family and others accept Christ?

Would more money in Lazarus’ pocket have helped the Rich man to accept God’s charity (Love)?

Would making money beyond fulfilling the desire to help others making the choice to follow Christ, be a waste of time?

 

[Aviel]

Taking care of your family is first and foremost doing what you can to help them make the choice for Christ

Preaching to the choir.

Change your channel.

 

[hislegacy]

Its needs to be full as if its gets too low, your engine will self destruct, and so will your life.

What is too low?

Do these Christian Brothers and Sister have enough oil or are they self destructing?